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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Wokko wrote: | | Dante Ian Watkins, born at 12:48pm. 10lb 8 ounces. 4.76kg. 53 cm long. |
Big boy! Huge congrats to you both xxx
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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[quote="K"] | stui magpie wrote: | ...
Cops ... drag them to an ED for a mental health assessment. |
K noted:
So do you agree that this doesn't seem entirely legal?
I'm wondering if the cops actually know the law. If they do, another possibility is that they bend it by verbally persuading people who are probably scared and don't know the law to "accompany them voluntarily" to the psych ward. I find this all rather disturbing.
I'll see what other info there is governing police conduct..
WPT noted:
The process is entirely legal.
Police are pretty well versed these days about the pertinent parts of the Mental Health Act, 2014 that relate to section 351. To work with a clinician they should be doing an inservice forst. In theor basic training a lot of time is put into mental health. The police have a huge job.
Police are empowered in Victoria by Section 351 of the mental health Act, 2014 to get a person assessed in an ED by a mental health practitioner or by a medical doctor. In the ED 99% of people brought in by police under Section 351 of the Mental Health Act are assessed by a Mental Health Practitioner whom then make a decison as to disposition that is, where they go:
For example:
Release & no follow up
Release & see a GP and to organize a referral to see a psychologist or couselllor
Released and refer to a crisis assessment team (CAT) or whatever name they have in different areas.
Voluntary admission
Place on an Inpatient Assessment Order (against their will) as it were: once known as certified, later recommended or involuntary and now known as being a "Compulsory" patient (Consumer is the current lingua franca)
That basically encapsulates outcomes post assessment.
if a person is placed on an IAO they by law must see a psychiatrist within 24 hours who then will assess the person & make a determination to basically uphols the assessment order & place the person on a Temporary Treatment Order, a Community Treatment order or cahnege to IAO such that the patnent is voluntary.
(there'e a wee bit more to it than that but in a nutshell that is it)
Working with the police means that as a mental health practitioner I can see the person of concern & assess the person in situ:
I've assessed people in train stations, bus stops, maccas, pubs, on street corners, in swank hotels, on tall buidling balcony's (I'm not a police negotiator), in a brothel on one occasion and other places!!
Victoria Police have a role in apprehending people with mental illness.
Police apprehension powers
Section 351 of the Mental Health Act 2014 sets out the powers of a police officer to apprehend a person who appears to have mental illness where the person needs to be apprehended to prevent serious and imminent harm to the person or any other person. This section replaces section 10 in the Mental Health Act 1986.
Police are not required to make a clinical judgment about whether the person has mental illness.
As soon as practicable after apprehending a person, a police officer must arrange for the person to be taken to a registered medical practitioner or mental health practitioner to be examined. For these purposes the police may take a person to a public hospital to be examined by a registered medical practitioner or mental health practitioner.
The registered medical practitioner or mental health practitioner will examine the person to determine whether to place the person on an Assessment Order.
By agreement between police and the hospital staff, police may release the person from custody into the care of hospital staff before the assessment is complete subject to the following considerations:
If there are no significant safety concerns police can transfer care to hospital staff and the person is released from police custody. If care is transferred, hospital staff will be responsible to arrange for the person to be assessed by a registered medical practitioner or mental health practitioner.
If there are significant safety concerns police, by agreement with hospital staff should remain until the assessment by a registered medical practitioner or mental health practitioner is complete.
Authorised persons
A police office is an authorised person under the Act. Ambulance paramedics, medical practitioners employed by a designated mental health service and mental health practitioners are also authorised persons under the Act.
An authorised person may enter premises, apprehend people, use reasonable force and bodily restraint and transport people to a designated mental health service in prescribed circumstances, for example:
where a person is subject to an Inpatient Assessment Order, Inpatient Temporary Treatment Order or Inpatient Treatment Order and required to be taken to a designated mental health service
where a person is apprehended under section 351 of the Act and police request ambulance to take the person to a designated mental health service
where a patient is absent without leave from a designated mental health service.
Bodily restraint use by police
If a person is required to be taken to or from a designated mental health services or any other place an authorised person, including a police officer, may use bodily restraint.
A police officer may use bodily restraint if:
all reasonable and less restrictive options have been tried or considered and have been found to be unsuitable
it is needed to prevent serious and imminent harm to the person or to another person.
Search and seizure powers
Search
An authorised person, including a police officer may search a person who is being taken to or from a designated mental health service or any other place.
A police officer may search a person before the person is transported if they suspect that the person is carrying anything that:
presents a danger to health and safety of the person or another person, or
could be used to assist the person to escape.
Before conducting the search, the police officer must explain the purpose of the search to the person to the extent that is reasonable in the circumstances.
The power to search includes:
quickly running hands over the persons outer clothing (apat-down search) or passing an electronic metal device over or close to the persons outer clothing
requiring the person to remove their overcoat, coat or jacket and any gloves, shoes or hat and examining those items of clothing
requiring the person to empty their pockets or allow their pockets to be searched.
The police officer must inform the person being searched:
whether they will be required to remove clothing during the search
why it is necessary to remove the persons clothing.
A police officer must ask for the persons cooperation.
A police officer must conduct the search:
in a way that provides reasonable privacy for the person searched
as quickly as is reasonably practicable
if the person being searched is 16 years or younger, the search must be in the presence of a parent or, if a parent is not reasonably available, another adult.
A police officer must conduct the least invasive kind of search practicable in the circumstances.
A pat down search must be conducted by:
an authorised person of the same sex as the person searched or
a person of the same sex as the person searched under the direction of the authorised person.
Seizure
A police officer may seize and detain a thing found as a result of a search if the police office is reasonably satisfied that the thing
presents a danger to the health and safety of the person or another person or
could be used to assist the person to escape.
If a thing is seized and detailed the police officer must make a written record that
specifies the thing seized and detained, and
specifies the name of the person from whom the thing was seized and detained, and
specifies the date on which the thing was seized and detained, and
includes any other prescribed details.
Some items, such as weapons, firearms and drugs of dependence, must be retained by police and dealt with in accordance with law (for example, the Control of Weapons Act 1990) and police procedures. Other items may be handed over to the receiving mental health service for safe-keeping so that the item can be returned to the person when it is safe to do so.
Transport
When a person with mental illness needs to be transported to or from a designated mental health service under a provision of the Mental Health Act 2014, that transport should be provided by the least restrictive means possible.
In many circumstances a person with mental illness can be safely transported by a private vehicle or in a mental health service vehicle. However, where this is not safe, Ambulance Victoria has lead responsibility for providing transport either using an emergency ambulance or non-emergency patient transport as appropriate. Police also have a role in transport, either in conjunction with other transport providers or to provide transport where a person cannot be safely transported by other means.
Information disclosure
The Act permits disclosure of information where it is necessary to lessen or prevent a serious and imminent threat to an individuals life, health, safety or welfare or to prevent a serious threat to public health, public safety or public welfare. See disclosure of health information.
More information
The Department of Health and Human Services - Victoria Police protocol for mental health (October 2016) provides more detailed information about these issues and other common interactions between Victoria Police and mental health clinicians supporting people with mental illness.
https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/mental-health/practice-and-service-quality/mental-health-act-2014-handbook/compulsory-treatment/police
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | | Dante Ian Watkins, born at 12:48pm. 10lb 8 ounces. 4.76kg. 53 cm long. |
Congratulations Wokko.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Dante Ian Watkins, born at 12:48pm. 10lb 8 ounces. 4.76kg. 53 cm long. |
Congratulations Woko. |
Same mate, all the best to you and the woman who did most of the hard work, and the new arrival.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Thanks for your note, WPT. (And thanks for the link, Stui.) I'll read and post again... (Actually, the police aspect was just one thing and perhaps not the main thing that caught my eye from WPT's initial comments. I have, though, seen those videos splashed on the news of police seemingly being very violent, the last a few days ago involving someone having an epileptic fit, with his friend and mother desperately trying to communicate that to the police who were holding him down and bashing his head on the pavement.) |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Wokko wrote: | | Dante Ian Watkins, born at 12:48pm. 10lb 8 ounces. 4.76kg. 53 cm long. |
Congrats, Wokko!
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Are we still talking about Ancillary cover on private health helps although he or she'll exhaust his or her limit? |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Gees hes a chub chub, I cant imagine pushing him out! The missus sure did a brilliant job cooking him. And since Im not from the all babies are (insert word of choice here) I think hes gorgeous, I love chubby cheeked babies. Well done to you both, and especially the missus, just brilliant, cheers
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| stui magpie wrote: | | HELLO DAVID, any chance of a thread split? This isn't an overly happy topic. |
Do you want the good news or the bad news?
The bad news is that I actually can't. This thread is so big that any attempt to switch it to the moderating interface just leads to a grey screen of death. I can edit or permanently delete posts, but splitting posts out of the damn thing has long since entered the realm of science-fiction. As with global warming in The Day After Tomorrow, we've hit a point of no return and just have to hope for the best now. Best to just start a new thread and carry on the conversation there.
The good news is that I had time for a bowl of Special K this morning, and it was delicious!
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Welcome to the world, Dante (nice name, btw). Make it your paradiso.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | HELLO DAVID, any chance of a thread split? This isn't an overly happy topic. |
Do you want the good news or the bad news?
The bad news is that I actually can't. This thread is so big that any attempt to switch it to the moderating interface just leads to a grey screen of death. I can edit or permanently delete posts, but splitting posts out of the damn thing has long since entered the realm of science-fiction. As with global warming in The Day After Tomorrow, we've hit a point of no return and just have to hope for the best now. Best to just start a new thread and carry on the conversation there.
The good news is that I had time for a bowl of Special K this morning, and it was delicious! |
Hah, fair enough, thanks for the effort.
I don't like special K, I had 3 weetbix, no sugar, with some blueberries and raspberries on it and it was delicious.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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^ I'm more of a Vita Brits kind of guy, but am still partial to the odd Weet-Bix now and then!
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | | ^ I'm more of a Vita Brits kind of guy, but am still partial to the odd Weet-Bix now and then! |
Vita Brits WTF. Who eats friggin' Vita Brits? I do worry about you David. Mrs WPT bought some a while ago. Terribel decsion. I always have Weet-Bix in the cupboard and porridge. Mrs WPT occasionally buys the newer Freedom cereals 
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Interesting. . . I have a birthday on 2001. |
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