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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | mattys123 wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | I don't think you should read anything into Cloke's comments, or the lack of them. He put up his hand publicly after the last VFL game. He wasn't picked and he hasn't played since. He'd look rather silly insisting that he wants a recall now. He's going to be damned, either way: if he gets in, people will say it's by default and if he doesn't get in, people will say that's the end of him at Collingwood. Those propositions are both so obvious that the media will almost certainly put the hypotheticals to him in advance and seek his comment on them. What self-respecting person would deliberately walk into that? |
it is very easy to conclude that he should play and that if he doesn't "his papers have been stamped". another run in the vfl is not going to harm him. it could be perceived it will harm the afl side in the short term but his playing in the vfl is not about the short term. given the vfl has only had really played one decent game you'd want to see how cloke goes when the vfl team performs well on consecutive occasions. |
JW fair enough but will another game or 2 in the VFL help him ? I understand he hasn't met the objectives yet but with the senior side hit so hard with injuries and us being so reliant on a inexperienced forward line wouldn't you think playing him won't hinder our chances either and may give Cloke the push to really find his best again ?
For me I think playing outweighs not playing him. I get the fact Bucks made a stand for the long term benefits of team ethos but there comes a time when for the betterment of the many the few must sacrifice something (as in bucks swallowing some pride)
All the good work of the past 3 weeks in building decent performances and confidence could be quickly unravelled
Playing Cloke doesn't guarantee us a win or him playing well but at least it gives us some experience up forward |
The "objectives" for Cloke at VFL level seem unfair to me.
If Corey Gault, Darrean Wyatt or Jarrod Witts had a 13 possession, 5 mark, 4 goal game in the VFL they'd immediately come into the selection frame for AFL selection.
Yet Cloke does that (last VFL game vs Williamstown) yet apparently it's not good enough. Apparently he, unlike others, has to repeatedly do it to get a senior recall.
Isn't that unfair?
Any other player only has to play one very good VFL game to get a chance at senior selection but because he's Travis Cloke, and because his name was called out in a leading teams meeting, he has to do more than any other player to get a game.
Sorry that's wrong. Every selection should be based on recent performances compared to others. And what the team needs.
This week, we need forwards. We've lost our 2 highest goal scorers (Fas and Darcy) and we need to replace both of them.
Goldsack coming in may replace Fasolo but who replaces Darcy?
Witts, Wyatt? Hell no, there's only one player who has the ability, and the form to replace Moore.
That's Travis Cloke.
It's a mistake if he doesn't play, simple. |
I'm not sure what you're on about. No player ever gets promoted to the seniors on the back of just one good VFL game.  |
Ahhhmmmm! Points to Moore and Maynard as a case in point where you don't even need 1 good VFL game to get promoted for you're debut, average is apparently sufficient. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| jackcass wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | mattys123 wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | I don't think you should read anything into Cloke's comments, or the lack of them. He put up his hand publicly after the last VFL game. He wasn't picked and he hasn't played since. He'd look rather silly insisting that he wants a recall now. He's going to be damned, either way: if he gets in, people will say it's by default and if he doesn't get in, people will say that's the end of him at Collingwood. Those propositions are both so obvious that the media will almost certainly put the hypotheticals to him in advance and seek his comment on them. What self-respecting person would deliberately walk into that? |
it is very easy to conclude that he should play and that if he doesn't "his papers have been stamped". another run in the vfl is not going to harm him. it could be perceived it will harm the afl side in the short term but his playing in the vfl is not about the short term. given the vfl has only had really played one decent game you'd want to see how cloke goes when the vfl team performs well on consecutive occasions. |
JW fair enough but will another game or 2 in the VFL help him ? I understand he hasn't met the objectives yet but with the senior side hit so hard with injuries and us being so reliant on a inexperienced forward line wouldn't you think playing him won't hinder our chances either and may give Cloke the push to really find his best again ?
For me I think playing outweighs not playing him. I get the fact Bucks made a stand for the long term benefits of team ethos but there comes a time when for the betterment of the many the few must sacrifice something (as in bucks swallowing some pride)
All the good work of the past 3 weeks in building decent performances and confidence could be quickly unravelled
Playing Cloke doesn't guarantee us a win or him playing well but at least it gives us some experience up forward |
The "objectives" for Cloke at VFL level seem unfair to me.
If Corey Gault, Darrean Wyatt or Jarrod Witts had a 13 possession, 5 mark, 4 goal game in the VFL they'd immediately come into the selection frame for AFL selection.
Yet Cloke does that (last VFL game vs Williamstown) yet apparently it's not good enough. Apparently he, unlike others, has to repeatedly do it to get a senior recall.
Isn't that unfair?
Any other player only has to play one very good VFL game to get a chance at senior selection but because he's Travis Cloke, and because his name was called out in a leading teams meeting, he has to do more than any other player to get a game.
Sorry that's wrong. Every selection should be based on recent performances compared to others. And what the team needs.
This week, we need forwards. We've lost our 2 highest goal scorers (Fas and Darcy) and we need to replace both of them.
Goldsack coming in may replace Fasolo but who replaces Darcy?
Witts, Wyatt? Hell no, there's only one player who has the ability, and the form to replace Moore.
That's Travis Cloke.
It's a mistake if he doesn't play, simple. |
I'm not sure what you're on about. No player ever gets promoted to the seniors on the back of just one good VFL game. |
Ahhhmmmm! Points to Moore and Maynard as a case in point where you don't even need 1 good VFL game to get promoted for you're debut, average is apparently sufficient. |
The both showed good pre-season form...and they have both proved themselves at AFL level. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | The both showed good pre-season form...and they have both proved themselves at AFL level. |
Yeah.... Nah! Neither had had a really good game in 2015 before they debuted. Attended most of the preseason and early season VFL games last year and it is not what I was seeing anyway.
People were raving about Moore's 3 kick 3 goal game against the Hawks but I thought it was more opportunistic. Took 1 sensational pack mark and another where he stepped around Schoenmakers and took an uncontested mark but really didn't do a lot. Maynard's best game was his game against the Tigers at Punt Road but even that was only average and full of mistakes.
We were getting pretty thin for options though. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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jake niall is reporting that cloke is likely to be recalled.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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mattys123
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Location: Narre Warren, VIC
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| John Wren wrote: | | jake niall is reporting that cloke is likely to be recalled. |
Yay. 
Common sense prevails. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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You'd bloody hope so!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| think positive wrote: | | You'd bloody hope so! |
I'd suggest if he doesn't play this week, either he or Buckley won't be returning to the fold in 2017.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| piedys wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | You'd bloody hope so! |
I'd suggest if he doesn't play this week, either he or Buckley won't be returning to the fold in 2017. |
Yup
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Thanks for the link.
Great stuff matt. Thanks for your hard work.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| John Wren wrote: | | jake niall is reporting that cloke is likely to be recalled. |
 
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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ANNODAM 
Rebel Heart Tour - The Forum, Los Angeles 27/10/2015.
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Eltham, VIC.
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Danger Will Robinson, Danger!
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WE WERE ROBBED, RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, RIGHT IN FRONT OF MEEE!
N.Y METS, N.Y GIANTS, PENRITH PANTHERS & HOBART HURRICANES FAN.
WE ALL LOOK GOOD AT TRAINING, IT'S THE MATCHES THAT COUNT! |
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land
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| ANNODAM wrote: | | Danger Will Robinson, Danger! |
Yes,that boy shouldn't stand so close to Dr Smith. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| RICHO1991 wrote: | | E wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | RICHO1991 wrote: | In: Cloke, Brown, Sinclair, Williams, Aish
Out: Cox, Moore, Toovey, Fasolo, Adams
Brown to play down back.. Swing Reid forward with Cloke and play Sinclair in Fasolo's role.. Williams to replace Toovey across half back and Aish for Adams
Goldsack could also fill a spot down back or upforward! Not all doom and gloom folks! We do have some options |
I was thinking the same thing though Reid seems to be less injury prone this year and I wonder if it is to do with the more straight-ahead nature of defensive work. He also seems to organise the defence.
The last thing we need is Reid going down with injury now. So I'd go with Cloke and Cox at CHF/FF, leave Reid as the backline general, and let Browny work his way back in. I'd not let Cox go out yet - his game v the Dogs was a disappointment, but we need to keep investing in his project. |
Reid is under strict instructions to avoid being at full speed. have you seen how Reid doesn't chase anymore. Its not worth it just to save a goal if you guaranty an injury. Its the same reason sinkers isn't allowed to take 2 bounces. |
Reid did run down Stanley the other day against Geelong and a fair pace |
You are saying he chased down their lumbering ruckman? there have been at least 5 times this season where he has jogged while his opponent ran 50 meters.
Mind you, i am for it. I dont want reid hurting himself trying to catch someone. would rather he stayed healthy.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| mattys123 wrote: | Yay.
Common sense prevails. |
He simply needs to play for us to maintain our current forward line dynamic more than anything else, so Cloke replacing Moore is a simple and logical change.
Ideally, the club would retain Moore if he wasn't injured, but this is Cloke's chance to prove his doubters wrong and show the coaches that he's worth retaining in the side from now on.
I'm looking forward to seeing his body language on Sunday if he plays, because it will tell us a lot about where his head is at with his footy and the club and whether he wants this opportunity desperately enough. Here's hoping he plays well if he's selected as expected.
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Presti35
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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Pies by 16 points.
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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