Cloke ...again?
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| September Zeros wrote: | | E wrote: | in all truth, cloke is nearing the end. the question is whether he has any trade value after such a miserable season.
Its possible. But the only team that would want him is someone who is one key forward away from winning it all.
There just isn't a team in the top 8 that needs a cloke (even an in form cloke) to take them over the top.
Sydney, Adelaide and GWS are in fine shape. WC too. dogs seem to have figured their issues out with Boyd.
Maybe Geelong or Hawthorn? |
God forbid I ever see him in the piss and poo E. |
Maybe they'll bring in Cloke to help them win 5 in a row? Their pick 18 is probably a fair trade.
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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So dumb so so so dumb
If only someone had the foresight to build him up rather than tear him down and humiliate him. Yes he has faults, but why not try and play to his strengths? Where was the support when he was trying to run with three defenders hanging off him? Where is the expert kicking coach?
Nope humiliate him, put him in the naughty corner, that'll show ya!
Stupid, stubborn, tunnel vision.
Ok so he goes, to a top 8 team probably, but hey, what would their coaches know? They might tell you when he holds up another premiership cup.
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land
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| think positive wrote: | So dumb so so so dumb
If only someone had the foresight to build him up rather than tear him down and humiliate him. Yes he has faults, but why not try and play to his strengths? Where was the support when he was trying to run with three defenders hanging off him? Where is the expert kicking coach?
Nope humiliate him, put him in the naughty corner, that'll show ya!
Stupid, stubborn, tunnel vision.
Ok so he goes, to a top 8 team probably, but hey, what would their coaches know? They might tell you when he holds up another premiership cup. |
My thoughts exactly.Everyone in the media keeps saying that he needs to go to another club so that he can revive his career.Surely that's an indictment of our coaching staff and systems?If another club can get the best out of him,then why can't we?
I'd keep him on for at least another year to see if we can salvage his career.They're talking about getting a second or third round pick for him,which is a shocking return for an all Australian and our most dominant forward of the last decade.
I think he could work well with Darcey Moore if we could work out a way to deliver the ball properly to both of them.There's no need to have one or the other.We need to have both of them playing at the same time. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| think positive wrote: | So dumb so so so dumb
If only someone had the foresight to build him up rather than tear him down and humiliate him. Yes he has faults, but why not try and play to his strengths? Where was the support when he was trying to run with three defenders hanging off him? Where is the expert kicking coach?
Nope humiliate him, put him in the naughty corner, that'll show ya!
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Mate.....the club has employed several kicking coaches, psychologists including using head phones at training. Bucks has stuck by Cloke for 4 1/2 years. Finally, this year, as a result of the emergence of Darcy Moore, time has caught up with Travis. I doubt any player has had as much support as Travis has had over the course of his career. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | So dumb so so so dumb
If only someone had the foresight to build him up rather than tear him down and humiliate him. Yes he has faults, but why not try and play to his strengths? Where was the support when he was trying to run with three defenders hanging off him? Where is the expert kicking coach?
Nope humiliate him, put him in the naughty corner, that'll show ya!
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Mate.....the club has employed several kicking coaches, psychologists including using head phones at training. Bucks has stuck by Cloke for 4 1/2 years. Finally, this year, as a result of the emergence of Darcy Moore, time has caught up with Travis. I doubt any player has had as much support as Travis has had over the course of his career. |
My feeling is the club has stuck fast with Buckley for three years too long. Throwing out the best KPP player this club had had in 20 years will fix what? Let's see who picks him up and hat they do with him. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Will you?
IMO a good coach would at the very least use him as a foil for Moore, as Moore build muscle, we would have twin towers that are unbeatable. Use his strengths, ie his massive strength playing 1 on two, as Buckley insists every player should, and use his powerful thumping kick, even from the back line.
And until I see a KPP of Lloyd caliber work with him, no the club has not done enough. Maybe what they have done should have been, but it's not, so keep trying.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| doriswilgus wrote: | | think positive wrote: | So dumb so so so dumb
If only someone had the foresight to build him up rather than tear him down and humiliate him. Yes he has faults, but why not try and play to his strengths? Where was the support when he was trying to run with three defenders hanging off him? Where is the expert kicking coach?
Nope humiliate him, put him in the naughty corner, that'll show ya!
Stupid, stubborn, tunnel vision.
Ok so he goes, to a top 8 team probably, but hey, what would their coaches know? They might tell you when he holds up another premiership cup. |
My thoughts exactly.Everyone in the media keeps saying that he needs to go to another club so that he can revive his career.Surely that's an indictment of our coaching staff and systems?If another club can get the best out of him,then why can't we?
I'd keep him on for at least another year to see if we can salvage his career.They're talking about getting a second or third round pick for him,which is a shocking return for an all Australian and our most dominant forward of the last decade.
I think he could work well with Darcey Moore if we could work out a way to deliver the ball properly to both of them.There's no need to have one or the other.We need to have both of them playing at the same time. |
Says it all
And thankyou
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Woods 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | think positive wrote: | So dumb so so so dumb
If only someone had the foresight to build him up rather than tear him down and humiliate him. Yes he has faults, but why not try and play to his strengths? Where was the support when he was trying to run with three defenders hanging off him? Where is the expert kicking coach?
Nope humiliate him, put him in the naughty corner, that'll show ya!
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Mate.....the club has employed several kicking coaches, psychologists including using head phones at training. Bucks has stuck by Cloke for 4 1/2 years. Finally, this year, as a result of the emergence of Darcy Moore, time has caught up with Travis. I doubt any player has had as much support as Travis has had over the course of his career. |
The other aspect to this is that Cloke* is greedy. He wants much more money from his contract renewal negotiations (which he called for early this year) than Collingwood will pay given:
a) his down-trending performance in 2016, and
b) the tradition that senior players going into their twilight years take a pay cut so funds can be diverted to retain younger stars coming through the ranks (something most senior players at the one club have been the beneficies of in their early years).
Problem for Cloke is that Buckley despite being a genuine Cloke supporter does not write the cheques. Another problem is that the younger guns at the Pies looking towards contract renewal talks in the future know that if Cloke stays on big money there will be less in the pot for them. And they will start looking elsewhere.
* for "Cloke" you can read Travis or his father who pretty much directs the course of his career. |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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Cloke on a reduced salary will be great value next year… we can't rely on Moore, Cox and White as the main talls up forward - Cloke has had a tough year but he could work really well with an improving Moore.
Keeper - at the right price.
The only proviso is Witts - if he can improve his marking and fwd play he could be a handy tall who could chop out in the ruck… Not sure if he can do it though?
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| September Zeros wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | No, I don't. I consistently posted his stats for 2 reasons. First, from years to months ago I posted his past season stats because there was a lie about (repeatedly pushed by a couple of Cloke-haters) that he hadn't been good for years. I consider that the stats demonstrate irrefutably that he was great until about 12 months ago when injuries stuffed up the second half of his 2015. Secondly, I have referred to his statistics for this season where necessary to make the point that he was being dropped even though he was self-evidently not our worst forward. That happened again at the selection table this week, when he had more kicks and marks than most of the rest of the forward-line put together. If you can't understand the merit of those posts in their own terms, then I can't help you - but there is no need to be "gentle", just to apply some basic logic, as and when (if) you can. |
Speaking of stats .....
His season stat wise stacks up pretty well against Jesse whites does it not? I may be wrong and I am probably more asking the question out of sheer laziness.
If so......White has been far more popular at the selection table and yet IMO his capacity to impact a game is not in the same league as
Clokes....even accounting for Clokes frustrating kicking for goal. Yet we seem content with whites endeavour over the second half of the season.
White aside, I am well known as a supporter of Blair's integrity but Cloke should have been selected in place of Blair this week. Giving us our three talls and a CHF who can kick the ball over 40m. I'll take his modest return over repetitive nothing kicks to the square every day of the week. This week we had selection options to dislodge the gutsy Blair and we didn't.
It's not about Blair and it's not about white or anyone else in the forward line except Cloke and the fact IMO he should have played. We stuffed up at the selection table....again. That falls on Buckley (God love the man). That's not knocking him.....that's simply accountability. |
White offers 2nd ruck options so we either play him, Cox or Witts. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| yin-YANG wrote: | Cloke on a reduced salary will be great value next year… we can't rely on Moore, Cox and White as the main talls up forward - Cloke has had a tough year but he could work really well with an improving Moore.
Keeper - at the right price.
The only proviso is Witts - if he can improve his marking and fwd play he could be a handy tall who could chop out in the ruck… Not sure if he can do it though? |
Witts stats for yesterday, http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=80551&start=105
14 kicks
7 handballs
5 marks
6 tackles
59 hitouts
2 goals.
Serviceable day at the office.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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I am a Buckley supporter through and throigh, but I cannot really compute why Travis is being yo-yoed through the magoos. Against Richmond, I thought he was far from our worst in a forward line that was dysfunctional, yet he seemed to take the fall for it. I thought Cox and Cloke together represented immobility squared when the ball was deep, and that dozy slection was a big part of why we lost. But cloke did a fair bit up the ground, and i do not really understand why he took the fall.
It may be that he is not chasing hard enough, not following the team plan, or just that his 15-metre misses erode team morale at critical moments, but I cannot help but wonder whether the infamous dick pics have had a big influence on his year. Buckley is clearly a bit of a cultural puritan, and probably would not take kindly to Cloke setting such a bad example to young players as a senior leader. So maybe a message has been sent that no-one is above the team rules. If that is true, then it may be right or it may be wrong, but it would explain some deselection decisions that i can't quite see otherwise.
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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| stui magpie wrote: | | yin-YANG wrote: | Cloke on a reduced salary will be great value next year… we can't rely on Moore, Cox and White as the main talls up forward - Cloke has had a tough year but he could work really well with an improving Moore.
Keeper - at the right price.
The only proviso is Witts - if he can improve his marking and fwd play he could be a handy tall who could chop out in the ruck… Not sure if he can do it though? |
Witts stats for yesterday, http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=80551&start=105
14 kicks
7 handballs
5 marks
6 tackles
59 hitouts
2 goals.
Serviceable day at the office. |
Yes indeed good stats - would really like to see him given a go up forward - could he do much worse that Cox?
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Mugwump wrote: | I am a Buckley supporter through and throigh, but I cannot really compute why Travis is being yo-yoed through the magoos. Against Richmond, I thought he was far from our worst in a forward line that was dysfunctional, yet he seemed to take the fall for it. I thought Cox and Cloke together represented immobility squared when the ball was deep, and that dozy slection was a big part of why we lost. But cloke did a fair bit up the ground, and i do not really understand why he took the fall.
It may be that he is not chasing hard enough, not following the team plan, or just that his 15-metre misses erode team morale at critical moments, but I cannot help but wonder whether the infamous dick pics have had a big influence on his year. Buckley is clearly a bit of a cultural puritan, and probably would not take kindly to Cloke setting such a bad example to young players as a senior leader. So maybe a message has been sent that no-one is above the team rules. If that is true, then it may be right or it may be wrong, but it would explain some deselection decisions that i can't quite see otherwise. |
You answered your own question. It simply comes down to on field performance. Swan has had more off field incidents than Cloke, but no one has ever questioned Swan's position in the team. Buckley isn't conducting a vendetta against Cloke. If Cloke did what he is supposed to do his position would be safe. The fact is Cloke has been in decline since 2013. All the stats point to that. You can't compare the performances of Cox and Cloke against Richmond. Cox did his shoulder in the first quarter and couldn't raise his arms above his shoulders after that. Cox is out injured and will be lucky to play again this season. If Cloke was doing his job he wouldn't have been dropped. Cloke's plight is a reflection of modern society where individuals are no longer responsible for their outcomes, but rather it is the responsibility of coaches, teachers, parents, politicians etc. It's about time we proportion blame to where it belongs, namely the individual. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| So, we play Oxley as a like for like change? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| yin-YANG wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | yin-YANG wrote: | Cloke on a reduced salary will be great value next year… we can't rely on Moore, Cox and White as the main talls up forward - Cloke has had a tough year but he could work really well with an improving Moore.
Keeper - at the right price.
The only proviso is Witts - if he can improve his marking and fwd play he could be a handy tall who could chop out in the ruck… Not sure if he can do it though? |
Witts stats for yesterday, http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=80551&start=105
14 kicks
7 handballs
5 marks
6 tackles
59 hitouts
2 goals.
Serviceable day at the office. |
Yes indeed good stats - would really like to see him given a go up forward - could he do much worse that Cox? |
Hard call. Witts is a first ruck, cox has been trained as a forward who can ruck.
Grundy is going gangbusters as a first ruck and seems to thrive on being the main man.
Neither are at the moment the big contested clunk in the forward line to the get out kick, Cox actually shows more promise there.
I still reckon Grundy could rest as a high half forward/onballer while Witts takes the hitouts to spell him, Witts can rotate between deep forward, ruck and bench.
And yes, playing on ball without the physical stress of rucking is a rest.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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