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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ An alternative interpretation, having regard to the red dot on his picture, is that they’re praying that he stops one right between the eyes.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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The most dangerous thing he is doing is with trade, another example of his penchant for toying with things he doesn't understand. Hopefully, he backs off and wiser heads prevail. You would think it would be obvious that global wealth is now mutual and simplistic zero-sum Darwinianism is mutually-destructive. But apparently not.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ yep. It’s like watching a twelve year old playing a game of prisoner’s dilemma. When you’re the other prisoner.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Quote: | Vice President Mike Pence
Verified account
@VP
2h2 hours ago
More
Thank you to Justice Anthony Kennedy for your long career of service on the SCOTUS. @POTUS Trump will nominate a strong conservative, in the tradition of the late Justice Scalia, who will uphold all the God-given liberties enshrined in the Constitution of the United States. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: |
Last week I was a "sissy", this week you liken me to a "pussy". And you have the temerity to invoke the language of "cognitive dissonance".
If you don't want to engage, that's fine. But if you do want to, try engaging like you might be a grown up and one day even have a real job. |
I'll let the dig slide because you thought I'd started name calling. Pussy hats are stupid looking pink beanies that when folded up look like a vagina. They're worn by virtue signalling lefties, usually protesters but some seem to like the 24/7 virtue head warmer.
While I wont apologize for the statement (or the banter about your distaste for combat sports) I'm sorry I inadvertently caused offence.
Politics brings out the worst in people, especially when we're sitting at opposite ends of the spectrum. It's not always easy to reach across the aisle. |
I don't have "distaste" for "combat sports". Rather, I take the view that an activity with the object of detaching your opponent's retinas is not capable of being characterised as a "sport". I have a keen interest in martial arts - but I prefer to see people demonstrating their technique and skill in a way that doesn't involve trying to maim other people in a "contest". It is true that I was weak and ill as a child, that my health remains poor and that literally anybody could have beaten me in a fight at any time in my life - perhaps that informs my world view. I don't think there is much doubt that I'm an elitist - it is just that my hierarchy doesn't rank people who make other people bleed for fun very high on the ladder. My idea of "blood sport" is watching a second-rate pianist try to tackle Gnomenreigen.
Whatever position people on here want to take - I am not "of the Left" and I am certainly not at the opposite end of any meaningful political "spectrum". The fact that posters on Nick's seem to think of me as a "Socialist" is a source of genuine concern to me - not because I much care what anyone thinks about me but because it tells me that political values amongst young people have taken a somewhat disturbing lurch to the very far right. I am an old, rich, white male with friends the vast majority (all?) of whom are members of Melbourne's conservative establishment. I came from a very modest background and grew up surrounded by poverty but I don't think I know any "poor" people anymore. I do occasionally see them in the street, though, at a comfortable distance. My political opinions are generally welcome in the various establishment clubs I frequent. I don't engage in identity politics (because of my age and demographic, I tend to be a victim of them, really) and have no interest at all in people like Trump and Robinson, save to the extent that they and their fellow-travellers obviously threaten core constitutional values upon which our society is built. So long as they remain in their own backyards, that's fine - but the ratbags who support them in their own countries seem to want to create an export industry based on their stupidity. That concerns me.
I do hold views that, no doubt, echo from the place where I grew up. I like to see people have opportunities to better themselves, as I was able to do - and I am quite happy for the Government to spend my (quite considerable) tax contributions to try to achieve that. I am an atheist and, consequently, believe that everyone gets to go around precisely once and if people have a bad ride that worries me. Many people in Australia are consigned to live appalling lives through no fault of their own. The fact that some people will always scam whatever system is in place doesn't lead me to the conclusion that looking after the most vulnerable members of our society is a bad thing. I know where I came from and how much effort I had to put in to get where I am - but, at the same time, I well know that many other people who tried as hard as me didn't escape, so I take the view that such struggles are at least partly structural: I don't think I am wealthy and successful because I am "virtuous" or "clever", I just think I am lucky. Thus, I take the view that so long as my most immediate personal concern is whether my music room is quite large enough for the Bechstein EN-280, it is probably best for me to be alive to other people's struggles.
Perhaps the largest gulf between you and me may be that I take the view that there is plenty to go around for everyone and that we would do as well to share it, by and large. Perhaps not so in Zaire, where it might well be necessary to climb over other people to have a bearable life - but none of us live there. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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Game changer !!
Left would want to hope that Ginsburg holds on for a while longer and they win a crap load of seats.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ Well, for what it is worth, I agree with you on this issue. Trump’s language may allow him to technically claim that he is not vilifying a race, but it does inflame some very ugly elements and emboldens them to attack and intimidate some vulnerable people. Even if one agrees with a policy to stem illegal immigration, this type of blanket vilification is destructive and demagogic. It’s just one of a hundred ways that he is a disgrace to his office.
He is not a Nazi, by any means - he lacks Hitler’s demonic organizational skill, talismanic energy, and he appears to lacks any real beliefs at all - but he certainly has the potential to become the US’s first anti-Constitutional President. |
Yes, we do agree, perhaps on everything except the precise nomenclature, which (in my respectful opinion) doesn't matter greatly. What you call "blanket vilification", I call racism - but the distinction is an arid one.
I don't think Trump is a Nazi - he lacks any coherent political philosophy at all, so far as I can tell. I do, though, think that the people who do have the funny haircuts and swastika tattoos on their faces are emboldened by such utterances.
As I have said previously (on a few occasions, I think), there is scope for legitimate debate around immigration and border control, here, there and everywhere. I don't think that debate can possibly be advanced by the putative leader of an important country saying - as I take him to be saying, in substance - things to the effect that "there are probably some good Mexicans but they don't come here. We just get the serious criminals". The suggestions in this thread that he might have been trying to convey something else are try-hard disingenuous and, to me, worrying. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | By "free from sensationalism", you mean "white-rinsed of the racist anti-Mexican sentiment".
Yes, MJ23 could read the speech - the speech is actually worse than the way his comments were portrayed in Guardian article. Surely even you can work out that when Trump says
"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we're getting. And it only makes common sense. It only makes common sense. They're sending us not the right people."
it's just racist. "Some, I assume, are good people" is just a different guise for the old "Some of my best friends are Mexican" which we all always understood was a racist apologia.
If you can't see that, there is no merit at all in trying to have a conversation with you. |
Again by saying they are not sending their "best" means they do have better people. Thats not an entire race attacked. Its not that hard. He is on record for Legal Immigration. To suggest a "Guise" in his thinking is what you want it to be not what it is. You cant know that.
There is precedent with Cuba sending their criminals to the US. Not their "best" element.
But, twist it how you want, use it to label him any category of person you need to suit your view and shoot down any other message from him or is government. Thats working really well for the anti-trump movement atm as you can see in the polling.
Im with you on one thing though, probably no merit in having a conversation with you on the subject. go pies. |
This is the "Some of my best friends are ..." defence that I anticipated in my previous post. It doesn't wash with people like me who read and write and deal with language for a (fabulously lucrative) living.
I agree it isn't that hard. I accept, though, that it appears to be too hard for you. |
Ok this now all makes sense. Words selectively chosen to interpret in isolation of others, context and actions.
We were both right, no merit ever in any conversation. Ironically its a communication problem.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| think positive wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | David wrote: | | Am I just imagining it, or has the VPT gotten incredibly right-wing lately? Two out of three posters here seem to be Trump supporters. I’m not sure you’d find that ratio in a Liberal Party meeting, let alone society as a whole. |
Possibly. Broadly speaking, this is the general consensus I get from regular posters on VPT, although I might be wrong on some of these and not everyone takes a left or right position on every issue (whether it's a social or economic).
Left
- David
- Pies4shaw
- Pietillidie
- Culprit
- Watt Price Tully
- Swoop42
- Tannin (hasn't posted in a while)
Right
- Wokko
- Skids
- MJ23
- Stui Magpie (probably centre-right)
- Mugwump (although, not a supporter of Trump)
- Jezza
- Thesoretoothsayer (mainly speaks out against some of the left's idiocy)
From what I can gather, it's pretty balanced. Some posters disappear for a while or only post infrequently and others are very active, which can generate the impression that VPT is dominated by one side of politics over the other. |
i forget again, which side am i on?? |
very funny
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I'm not going to engage in any debate about the merit of Kennedy or his potential replacement. It is, perhaps, worth observing in passing that Kennedy is a Republican, appointed by Reagan. It's not the "Left" that would be worried about him going, except in the sense that they might be slightly concerned about the potential for a conservative to be replaced by an actual nutter. |
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