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| Nathan Buckley: what should the club do with him? |
| Sack him now and pay him out |
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18% |
[ 28 ] |
| Sack him at season's end and pay him out |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to sack) |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to keep) |
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17% |
[ 26 ] |
| Keep him until mid-season 2017, then reassess |
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5% |
[ 9 ] |
| Keep him until end of 2017, then reassess |
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17% |
[ 27 ] |
| Back him for as long as it takes! All We Can Be with NCB! |
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9% |
[ 15 ] |
| Other (please outline in the thread) |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 151 |
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land
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| He's right though-we are capable of better.Unfortunately it will only come with a different coach. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Stating the bleeding obvious one would surely hope so !
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | I've been a long time supporter of Bucks defended him at every turn but the evidence is to strong now even allowing for injuries.
I can handle losing and even when you have a long injury list you expect to lose against good sides but Melbourne aren't s good side and for 3/4 today we made them look like Hawthorne. |
If people actually 'allow for injuries', then today's result was almost certain.
Can we stop with the nonsense that a long list of injuries should have no major impact? Especially on a young developing side. |
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SteveH67
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
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I dont think Bucks will get the chop this season and he wouldn't walk.
The club will give him the benefit of the injury problems again this year.
Leppa at the Lions is under the pump too now.
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Social club member 7342 since 2000. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Redlight wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | I've been a long time supporter of Bucks defended him at every turn but the evidence is to strong now even allowing for injuries.
I can handle losing and even when you have a long injury list you expect to lose against good sides but Melbourne aren't s good side and for 3/4 today we made them look like Hawthorne. |
If people actually 'allow for injuries', then today's result was almost certain.
Can we stop with the nonsense that a long list of injuries should have no major impact? Especially on a young developing side. |
Shhhsh, such commonsense is not tolerated tonight, the sackers are having a field day, we don't want to spoil their big night of bitching now, do we. 
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | ^I would just like to see how Bucks would go, with just one season, just one, with a fully fit and healthy list. But he never gets the chance, and does not look likely too. |
The thing for me is that I can't see any coach doing any better in these circumstances so I keep coming back to what benefit is achieved by change for change sake. All I see by taking that route is a Richmondesque revolving door of coaches until you get to the point where 1 of them has close to a full and healthy list and it all clicks and they seem like a genius.
People bang on about Bolton being a great coach but he's been coaching a team that's been able to put close to their best 22 on the park every week. He's coaching a team that has 5 (by my off the top of my head count) No1 draft picks. That's not 1st round picks, that's No1 picks. They lost 1 of them on the weekend and Bolton didn't look quite as great.
Richo looks great, but again, look at the high end picks they've added since 2010. And their aging warriors just keep performing. But again, has their season been any better than ours?
Beveridge has done well but how much of the credit for that goes to McCartney for getting the defensive aspects settled? And again, look at the draft picks they've had since 2010, and the relative team stability.
Lyon is apparently a genius, but look at where Freo are at with a few injuries. He's not what I'd consider a development coach anyway.
And none of these guys are available so we'd be looking again at an untried prospect. None of the senior established guys are available.
Irrespective, can't see Bucks going anywhere before seasons end so people need to just HTFU till then at a minimum. |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| Big T wrote: | | He will be sacked tomorrow. |
Is it Tuesday yet? It feels like Xmas eve! 
| kymbo5@yahoo.com.au wrote: | | Seth wrote: | | If he had any pride in himself he would resign knowing he has taken this club as far backwards as he can. |
Pride and throwing the towel in don't go together. He will and should stay. |
No, EGO and throwing the towel in don't go together. He will and should go.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| jackcass wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | ^I would just like to see how Bucks would go, with just one season, just one, with a fully fit and healthy list. But he never gets the chance, and does not look likely too. |
The thing for me is that I can't see any coach doing any better in these circumstances so I keep coming back to what benefit is achieved by change for change sake. All I see by taking that route is a Richmondesque revolving door of coaches until you get to the point where 1 of them has close to a full and healthy list and it all clicks and they seem like a genius.
People bang on about Bolton being a great coach but he's been coaching a team that's been able to put close to their best 22 on the park every week. He's coaching a team that has 5 (by my off the top of my head count) No1 draft picks. That's not 1st round picks, that's No1 picks. They lost 1 of them on the weekend and Bolton didn't look quite as great.
Richo looks great, but again, look at the high end picks they've added since 2010. And their aging warriors just keep performing. But again, has their season been any better than ours?
Beveridge has done well but how much of the credit for that goes to McCartney for getting the defensive aspects settled? And again, look at the draft picks they've had since 2010, and the relative team stability.
Lyon is apparently a genius, but look at where Freo are at with a few injuries. He's not what I'd consider a development coach anyway.
And none of these guys are available so we'd be looking again at an untried prospect. None of the senior established guys are available.
Irrespective, can't see Bucks going anywhere before seasons end so people need to just HTFU till then at a minimum. |
Here it goes
It is all about the injuries and the non settled side.
There is no one better at the moment.... blah blah blah.
Why did we basically sacked Shaw?
Because he was a dud coach!
What did we do.
We got a proven coach!
Is Bux a proven coach?
No.
Does he look any good at coaching from any perspective?
No!
Has he had enough time?
Yes 5 friggin long years!
And do you think we couldn't poach or entice a proven coach to us?
And then we get this post... I can't see any reason to remove Buckley and there is no one left anyway!
Can I go on ...yes but I can't be bothered.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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I think there is a ton of evidence that good coaches are made by good players, not the other way around,. Pagan, Matthews, Sheedy all prospered and declined according to the quality of their lists.
Right now, Buckley looks poor because the side he is working with is marginal at the top end and weak at the bottom. Crocker, Cox, Maynard, Frost, Witts, DeGoey, Marsh, Maynard, Phillips and Grundy are all ok players and/or under development but they are not clearly AFL standard. Grundy is perhaps the best of that lot in terms of his development curve but even he is regularly destroyed by top-quality ruckmen.
When Buckley had the 2012 squad he took them to a prelim. Last year we were 8/3 at half way with a full list until the injury gods cruelled us. This suggests to me that he can coach. The most likely explanation for our present incompetence is personnel quality, and that will not be rectified until we get talent back from injury, achieve some stability in playing personnel, and/or the development of Crocker, Moore, Marsh, Grundy DeGoey and Cox bears greater fruit. I do not think that Witts has it at AFL level, and I still have doubts that Maynard has it.
Will changing the coach help ? It is possible, but I doubt it. It is the simplest solution - and the simplest solution in life is always the most attractive - but it is rarely the correct one.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| thompsoc wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | ^I would just like to see how Bucks would go, with just one season, just one, with a fully fit and healthy list. But he never gets the chance, and does not look likely too. |
The thing for me is that I can't see any coach doing any better in these circumstances so I keep coming back to what benefit is achieved by change for change sake. All I see by taking that route is a Richmondesque revolving door of coaches until you get to the point where 1 of them has close to a full and healthy list and it all clicks and they seem like a genius.
People bang on about Bolton being a great coach but he's been coaching a team that's been able to put close to their best 22 on the park every week. He's coaching a team that has 5 (by my off the top of my head count) No1 draft picks. That's not 1st round picks, that's No1 picks. They lost 1 of them on the weekend and Bolton didn't look quite as great.
Richo looks great, but again, look at the high end picks they've added since 2010. And their aging warriors just keep performing. But again, has their season been any better than ours?
Beveridge has done well but how much of the credit for that goes to McCartney for getting the defensive aspects settled? And again, look at the draft picks they've had since 2010, and the relative team stability.
Lyon is apparently a genius, but look at where Freo are at with a few injuries. He's not what I'd consider a development coach anyway.
And none of these guys are available so we'd be looking again at an untried prospect. None of the senior established guys are available.
Irrespective, can't see Bucks going anywhere before seasons end so people need to just HTFU till then at a minimum. |
Here it goes
It is all about the injuries and the non settled side.
There is no one better at the moment.... blah blah blah.
Why did we basically sacked Shaw?
Because he was a dud coach!
What did we do.
We got a proven coach!
Is Bux a proven coach?
No.
Does he look any good at coaching from any perspective?
No!
Has he had enough time?
Yes 5 friggin long years!
And do you think we couldn't poach or entice a proven coach to us?
And then we get this post... I can't see any reason to remove Buckley and there is no one left anyway!
Can I go on ...yes but I can't be bothered. |
AND I cant be bothered with fools who think players out of the side, like Moore, taylor adams, Elliott, swan, Ramsay, Fasolo, Scharenberg, etc make no difference and should make no difference to our team.
Unfarking believable, just incredible that such a ridiculous notion could actually be believed, bloody jock McHale or norm smith would do no better with this crippled team, and with a bunch of kids in it who have played about twenty games between all of em. Replacing Bucks now will do bugger all, no stand in coach will do any better, with this current list way down on key personnel. 
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Daniel 
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
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| Well said ^ |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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He is GOOOOOOOOOONE
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I am Da Man |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Mugwump wrote: | I think there is a ton of evidence that good coaches are made by good players, not the other way around,. Pagan, Matthews, Sheedy all prospered and declined according to the quality of their lists.
Right now, Buckley looks poor because the side he is working with is marginal at the top end and weak at the bottom. Crocker, Cox, Maynard, Frost, Witts, DeGoey, Marsh, Maynard, Phillips and Grundy are all ok players and/or under development but they are not clearly AFL standard. Grundy is perhaps the best of that lot in terms of his development curve but even he is regularly destroyed by top-quality ruckmen.
When Buckley had the 2012 squad he took them to a prelim. Last year we were 8/3 at half way with a full list until the injury gods cruelled us. This suggests to me that he can coach. The most likely explanation for our present incompetence is personnel quality, and that will not be rectified until we get talent back from injury, achieve some stability in playing personnel, and/or the development of Crocker, Moore, Marsh, Grundy DeGoey and Cox bears greater fruit. I do not think that Witts has it at AFL level, and I still have doubts that Maynard has it.
Will changing the coach help ? It is possible, but I doubt it. It is the simplest solution - and the simplest solution in life is always the most attractive - but it is rarely the correct one. |
Um you mean the team that had just played off in two grand finals? And won one of them, should have been both had the diabolical play not been in place to get him the job.
That's was Micks team, Micks game plan, not much to do with Buckley
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | I think there is a ton of evidence that good coaches are made by good players, not the other way around,. Pagan, Matthews, Sheedy all prospered and declined according to the quality of their lists.
Right now, Buckley looks poor because the side he is working with is marginal at the top end and weak at the bottom. Crocker, Cox, Maynard, Frost, Witts, DeGoey, Marsh, Maynard, Phillips and Grundy are all ok players and/or under development but they are not clearly AFL standard. Grundy is perhaps the best of that lot in terms of his development curve but even he is regularly destroyed by top-quality ruckmen.
When Buckley had the 2012 squad he took them to a prelim. Last year we were 8/3 at half way with a full list until the injury gods cruelled us. This suggests to me that he can coach. The most likely explanation for our present incompetence is personnel quality, and that will not be rectified until we get talent back from injury, achieve some stability in playing personnel, and/or the development of Crocker, Moore, Marsh, Grundy DeGoey and Cox bears greater fruit. I do not think that Witts has it at AFL level, and I still have doubts that Maynard has it.
Will changing the coach help ? It is possible, but I doubt it. It is the simplest solution - and the simplest solution in life is always the most attractive - but it is rarely the correct one. |
Um you mean the team that had just played off in two grand finals? And won one of them, should have been both had the diabolical play not been in place to get him the job.
That's was Micks team, Micks game plan, not much to do with Buckley |
Yes, but the 8/3 at the half-way mark last year wasn't : if he cannot coach, did he suddenly lose his ability in July last year ?
I would argue that the 2011 team showed signs of being cooked by that season's end. Despite having a week's rest over is opponents, it scraped past Hawthorn by 5 points to get to that GF, then lost on the big day by 40+ points. It did not shake off WCE that easily in the qualifying final, either.
The previous year it had destroyed the Dogs and then Geelong by 10+ goals, had one poor week in GF1 and then won by 40+ points. By 2011, it seemed to me that time was taking its toll on several of the 2010 side's mainstay players.
Anyway, my main point was that players make coaches and victories rather than the other way around. Compare the bottom 11 players of the 2010 side with the bottom 11 out there today, and there is a mighty gap in quality. In some cases, that is time - in others, it is simple talent. I thikn that time and injury recovery will make most of it good.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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the only thing that I would say is that Geelong and Hawthorn both won flags shortly after their fan base declared that Bomber Thompson and Alastair Clarkson both had to go.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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