#17,#11 Dayne Beams
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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the stuff written about beams here looks quite measured compared to what is on twitter, facebook and instagram. the unfiltered, unmoderated content floating about on those platforms is quite extraordinary.
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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| John Wren wrote: | | the stuff written about beams here looks quite measured compared to what is on twitter, facebook and instagram. the unfiltered, unmoderated content floating about on those platforms is quite extraordinary. |
Makes you wonder who actually supports our club. Are the stereotypes really so off the mark after all? Few things disgust me, but the self-serving denigration of players, who while they played for us gave their all, really gets me angry.
It's time Collingwood supporters started to realise that in all professional sports these days players move and are traded all the time. It's like when Ronaldo went from Man U to Real Madrid. He was never booed when Real played at Old Trafford again. Soccer fans are more forgiving obviously. Listen this is a market society. In the modern world, loyalty is a much over-hyped virtue.
So long as current players on the payroll give their all, that's all we can ask. When they move on, we should have the good grace to accept that.
I will say though, that the Western Bulldogs are laughing their heads off tonight. Swapping Griffen (in his twilight years) for Boyd (number one pick last year) is like mana from heaven. When the Bulldogs out trade us we know we are in for a long stretch in the wilderness (mind you there are quite a few Pies fans doing a long stretch at the moment as well.  ). 
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Domesticated_Ape 
Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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| collie dog wrote: | | As I said previously, my concern about the people bagging Beams and other heroes from the 2010 team who have left, been traded or just plain sacked is that it leads to a complete denigration of our premiership. Were we really that bad back then? |
Nonsense. Just because people are happy with list changes that have happened after 2010 doesn't mean they don't appreciate the fact that we won that year.
| collie dog wrote: | | Obviously St Kilda were crap seeing how far they have fallen, and Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney were obviously on sabbaticals,... |
St.Kilda nearly won back to back flags. Show them some respect if you're serious about respecting our 2010 premiership.
| collie dog wrote: | | but the truth of the matter is that ANY Collingwood player who wins a flag should be treated as a god for life! |
And then you will bag us for only winning 1 flag every 20 years, right?
| collie dog wrote: |
I think I recall several posters like AN_Inkling describing this team as the greatest they had seen in all their years supporting Collingwood. We re-write history at our peril. |
They probably still say the same thing, but it's not 2010 anymore. |
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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| Domesticated_Ape wrote: | | collie dog wrote: | | As I said previously, my concern about the people bagging Beams and other heroes from the 2010 team who have left, been traded or just plain sacked is that it leads to a complete denigration of our premiership. Were we really that bad back then? |
Nonsense. Just because people are happy with list changes that have happened after 2010 doesn't mean they don't appreciate the fact that we won that year.
| collie dog wrote: | | Obviously St Kilda were crap seeing how far they have fallen, and Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney were obviously on sabbaticals,... |
St.Kilda nearly won back to back flags. Show them some respect if you're serious about respecting our 2010 premiership.
| collie dog wrote: | | but the truth of the matter is that ANY Collingwood player who wins a flag should be treated as a god for life! |
And then you will bag us for only winning 1 flag every 20 years, right?
| collie dog wrote: |
I think I recall several posters like AN_Inkling describing this team as the greatest they had seen in all their years supporting Collingwood. We re-write history at our peril. |
They probably still say the same thing, but it's not 2010 anymore. |
Do you have any sense of what IRONY means at all? 
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Rain or hail, I wag my tail |
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Domesticated_Ape
Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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| It's like rain on your wedding day, I've heard. |
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blackandwhite4life 
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Location: sydney
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | Also, assuming that the average career of a good to great player is about 12 years, give or take, you've got to expect to lose about a third over 4 years to retirement. Collingwood has lost slightly less than a third (6, rather than 7). So what you've got to focus on, objectively, is the other 6 who have left or been moved on. Here are my views on them, for what they are worth:
Wellingham was a loss - he covered the ground brilliantly over the first couple of paces at the stoppages. I would have preferred Collingwood keep him but I understand why they let him go.
Dawes wasn't a loss - but I would be the first to agree that the Club still doesn't have a centre-half forward (see my rants last year about Blair having to play as lead-up target, contest after contest, in some games because no-one over 6 feet tall could get to the spot).
Thomas might yet prove to be a loss, if he comes good. His best football was played in 2010. He played more patchily but at a high level in 2011. He was one who could hold his head up after the GF loss. He hasn't played much good footy since then, either under Buckley or under the other chap. Would it be desirable to be paying him now the $750K per year he got from the Blooz? No, I think not. On balance, I am pleased Collingwood didn't match the offer - it would have inflated all sorts of player expectations that simply couldn't be met by the Club. On what I saw this year, I wouldn't want him back.
Heater was a great loss and his 2014 showed that he is still a fine player. I didn't like that deal when it was done - but it's hard to argue the toss between a 29 year old half-back flanker and the inside mid the Club wants to play for the next decade. Of the 6 of them, I miss Heater the most.
The 2014 version of H isn't a great loss. He was, once, close to my favourite player. By the middle of 2011, I'd given up on him and I think we've seen a steady decline. His efforts on Steve Johnson on GF day 2011 were unacceptable. Still a good contributor, now - but I think his best is probably behind him. He'll play plenty of good footy over the next year or two but I doubt much if any of it will be (or would have been) played in finals. I expect him to be done by the end of 2017. Varcoe's probably more or less a value for value replacement. That said, I'd probably prefer to have neither, at this stage.
Beams is clearly a loss but he isn't a great loss. I understand that I am in the minority in thinking this. It's not a new view. I never much cared for his style of play and have been openly questioning his position in the team since 2011. He is a classic example of a player too readily embraced by the Club's supporters. He's a good, solid player probably a B or a B+, certainly not an A grader. I think the Club has probably gained much more than it lost by letting him go, unless pick 5 turns out to be a complete spud. In any event, he couldn't have been paid the sum Brisbane was offering. The deal is apparently of the $800K to $900K per year variety. We might have kept him for 2015 but, if that sort of money was available next year, he would have fled.
So, in total, what we're talking about is 6 players, 2 of whom I would rather the Club had kept. Allowing for the possibility that the Collingwood football department might understand this better than me, I'm happy to accept what they did with Heater and Wellers - and I actively agree with each of the other 4 decisions. |
[u]
Wow, in 2012 he won the Copeland, won the 3AW player of the year and finished 4th in the MVP behind Ablett, Watson & Cotchin (I think). If the player rated the 4th best in the game that year isn't A-grade I don't know what is.
2013 was a write-off of a year due to injury and this year he was a rare touch of class on numerous occasions and finished 2 points off 2nd in the Copeland. He is A-grade every day of the week, and that's not just a biased pies view. Ask other supporters, other players, other coaches; he is A GRADE.
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| collie dog wrote: | | Domesticated_Ape wrote: | | collie dog wrote: | | As I said previously, my concern about the people bagging Beams and other heroes from the 2010 team who have left, been traded or just plain sacked is that it leads to a complete denigration of our premiership. Were we really that bad back then? |
Nonsense. Just because people are happy with list changes that have happened after 2010 doesn't mean they don't appreciate the fact that we won that year.
| collie dog wrote: | | Obviously St Kilda were crap seeing how far they have fallen, and Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney were obviously on sabbaticals,... |
St.Kilda nearly won back to back flags. Show them some respect if you're serious about respecting our 2010 premiership.
| collie dog wrote: | | but the truth of the matter is that ANY Collingwood player who wins a flag should be treated as a god for life! |
And then you will bag us for only winning 1 flag every 20 years, right?
| collie dog wrote: |
I think I recall several posters like AN_Inkling describing this team as the greatest they had seen in all their years supporting Collingwood. We re-write history at our peril. |
They probably still say the same thing, but it's not 2010 anymore. |
Do you have any sense of what IRONY means at all? |
Yep. And thanks for the text book example  .
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Well done boys! |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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| collie dog wrote: | As I said previously, my concern about the people bagging Beams and other heroes from the 2010 team who have left, been traded or just plain sacked is that it leads to a complete denigration of our premiership. Were we really that bad back then? Obviously St Kilda were crap seeing how far they have fallen, and Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney were obviously on sabbaticals, but the truth of the matter is that ANY Collingwood player who wins a flag should be treated as a god for life! I think I recall several posters like AN_Inkling describing this team as the greatest they had seen in all their years supporting Collingwood. We re-write history at our peril.
35Forever is correct when he refers to those who try to re-write history as "fair weather" supporters. I am not in the business of slagging off individuals who hold opposing opinions, but [b]I sure would like to see a complete moratorium on bagging 2010 premiership heroes[/b]. And that includes Dayne Beams.
BTW the 2010-2011 teams would beat the current best Collingwood 22 by ten goals any day of the week. Easily! |
Say's the man who labeled Scott Pendlebury, a 2010 premiership hero, Norm Smith Medalist, reigning Copeland Trophy winner and our current captain a "suck" just the other day for defending his coach. You can't even manage an individual moratorium from shit canning a 2010 hero, you total fraud
As for rewriting history, well you just tried to but unfortunately for you most of us don't possess your gold fish like memory retention and you've tripped up and failed in yet another obvious troll post. |
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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| Flashman wrote: | | collie dog wrote: | As I said previously, my concern about the people bagging Beams and other heroes from the 2010 team who have left, been traded or just plain sacked is that it leads to a complete denigration of our premiership. Were we really that bad back then? Obviously St Kilda were crap seeing how far they have fallen, and Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney were obviously on sabbaticals, but the truth of the matter is that ANY Collingwood player who wins a flag should be treated as a god for life! I think I recall several posters like AN_Inkling describing this team as the greatest they had seen in all their years supporting Collingwood. We re-write history at our peril.
35Forever is correct when he refers to those who try to re-write history as "fair weather" supporters. I am not in the business of slagging off individuals who hold opposing opinions, but [b]I sure would like to see a complete moratorium on bagging 2010 premiership heroes[/b]. And that includes Dayne Beams.
BTW the 2010-2011 teams would beat the current best Collingwood 22 by ten goals any day of the week. Easily! |
Say's the man who labeled Scott Pendlebury, a 2010 premiership hero, Norm Smith Medalist, reigning Copeland Trophy winner and our current captain a "suck" just the other day for defending his coach. You can't even manage an individual moratorium from shit canning a 2010 hero, you total fraud
As for rewriting history, well you just tried to but unfortunately for you most of us don't possess your gold fish like memory retention and you've tripped up and failed in yet another obvious troll post. |
And you have no understanding of the word CONTEXT!
I have NEVER questioned Pendlebury's ability, star quality, and rightful status as our best player. I do have a right to question his support for our struggling coach.
But thanks for highlighting my called for moratorium on bagging our 2010 premiership heroes.
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Rain or hail, I wag my tail |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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| Domesticated_Ape wrote: | | It's like rain on your wedding day, I've heard. |
You're wrong.
It's more like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife from memory. |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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| collie dog wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | | collie dog wrote: | As I said previously, my concern about the people bagging Beams and other heroes from the 2010 team who have left, been traded or just plain sacked is that it leads to a complete denigration of our premiership. Were we really that bad back then? Obviously St Kilda were crap seeing how far they have fallen, and Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney were obviously on sabbaticals, but the truth of the matter is that ANY Collingwood player who wins a flag should be treated as a god for life! I think I recall several posters like AN_Inkling describing this team as the greatest they had seen in all their years supporting Collingwood. We re-write history at our peril.
35Forever is correct when he refers to those who try to re-write history as "fair weather" supporters. I am not in the business of slagging off individuals who hold opposing opinions, but [b]I sure would like to see a complete moratorium on bagging 2010 premiership heroes[/b]. And that includes Dayne Beams.
BTW the 2010-2011 teams would beat the current best Collingwood 22 by ten goals any day of the week. Easily! |
Say's the man who labeled Scott Pendlebury, a 2010 premiership hero, Norm Smith Medalist, reigning Copeland Trophy winner and our current captain a "suck" just the other day for defending his coach. You can't even manage an individual moratorium from shit canning a 2010 hero, you total fraud
As for rewriting history, well you just tried to but unfortunately for you most of us don't possess your gold fish like memory retention and you've tripped up and failed in yet another obvious troll post. |
And you have no understanding of the word CONTEXT!
I have NEVER questioned Pendlebury's ability, star quality, and rightful status as our best player. I do have a right to question his support for our struggling coach.
But thanks for highlighting my called for moratorium on bagging our 2010 premiership heroes. |
So Pendlebury hasn't got the right to defend his coach, former teammate and mentor without you resorting to calling him names?
And this coming from someone who posted not 15 minutes ago that...
| Quote: | | I am not in the business of slagging off individuals who hold opposing opinions |
I'm not sure what business you are in but you could $£$%^%%$ franchise hypocrisy, slagging off individuals and stereotyping people who hold a slightly more positive view than your own exaggerated misanthropic stance on the club.
Last edited by Flashman on Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Domesticated_Ape
Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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| Flashman wrote: | | Domesticated_Ape wrote: | | It's like rain on your wedding day, I've heard. |
You're wrong.
It's more like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife from memory. |
I'm sure Bucks will sleep more soundly knowing that's the sort of irony Collie Dog is experiencing. |
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King Malta 
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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| Flashman wrote: | | Domesticated_Ape wrote: | | It's like rain on your wedding day, I've heard. |
You're wrong.
It's more like 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife from memory. |
You both need to watch this
http://youtu.be/nT1TVSTkAXg |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| blackandwhite4life wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | Also, assuming that the average career of a good to great player is about 12 years, give or take, you've got to expect to lose about a third over 4 years to retirement. Collingwood has lost slightly less than a third (6, rather than 7). So what you've got to focus on, objectively, is the other 6 who have left or been moved on. Here are my views on them, for what they are worth:
Wellingham was a loss - he covered the ground brilliantly over the first couple of paces at the stoppages. I would have preferred Collingwood keep him but I understand why they let him go.
Dawes wasn't a loss - but I would be the first to agree that the Club still doesn't have a centre-half forward (see my rants last year about Blair having to play as lead-up target, contest after contest, in some games because no-one over 6 feet tall could get to the spot).
Thomas might yet prove to be a loss, if he comes good. His best football was played in 2010. He played more patchily but at a high level in 2011. He was one who could hold his head up after the GF loss. He hasn't played much good footy since then, either under Buckley or under the other chap. Would it be desirable to be paying him now the $750K per year he got from the Blooz? No, I think not. On balance, I am pleased Collingwood didn't match the offer - it would have inflated all sorts of player expectations that simply couldn't be met by the Club. On what I saw this year, I wouldn't want him back.
Heater was a great loss and his 2014 showed that he is still a fine player. I didn't like that deal when it was done - but it's hard to argue the toss between a 29 year old half-back flanker and the inside mid the Club wants to play for the next decade. Of the 6 of them, I miss Heater the most.
The 2014 version of H isn't a great loss. He was, once, close to my favourite player. By the middle of 2011, I'd given up on him and I think we've seen a steady decline. His efforts on Steve Johnson on GF day 2011 were unacceptable. Still a good contributor, now - but I think his best is probably behind him. He'll play plenty of good footy over the next year or two but I doubt much if any of it will be (or would have been) played in finals. I expect him to be done by the end of 2017. Varcoe's probably more or less a value for value replacement. That said, I'd probably prefer to have neither, at this stage.
Beams is clearly a loss but he isn't a great loss. I understand that I am in the minority in thinking this. It's not a new view. I never much cared for his style of play and have been openly questioning his position in the team since 2011. He is a classic example of a player too readily embraced by the Club's supporters. He's a good, solid player probably a B or a B+, certainly not an A grader. I think the Club has probably gained much more than it lost by letting him go, unless pick 5 turns out to be a complete spud. In any event, he couldn't have been paid the sum Brisbane was offering. The deal is apparently of the $800K to $900K per year variety. We might have kept him for 2015 but, if that sort of money was available next year, he would have fled.
So, in total, what we're talking about is 6 players, 2 of whom I would rather the Club had kept. Allowing for the possibility that the Collingwood football department might understand this better than me, I'm happy to accept what they did with Heater and Wellers - and I actively agree with each of the other 4 decisions. |
[u]
Wow, in 2012 he won the Copeland, won the 3AW player of the year and finished 4th in the MVP behind Ablett, Watson & Cotchin (I think). If the player rated the 4th best in the game that year isn't A-grade I don't know what is.
2013 was a write-off of a year due to injury and this year he was a rare touch of class on numerous occasions and finished 2 points off 2nd in the Copeland. He is A-grade every day of the week, and that's not just a biased pies view. Ask other supporters, other players, other coaches; he is A GRADE. |
I don't dispute that Beams is an A-grader, but I have issues with a senior player who was apparently happy with the club, suddenly deciding to leave and leaving the club in the lurch with its dearth of senior players already and having such a young list. Still that is AFL I guess. What Griffen did is worse as he was captain at WB and the WB's recovered brilliantly to secure Boyd to their club. We haven't done that badly either. Greenwood and Crisp will be good pick ups for us. The no 5 draft pick that we now have is a good chance to get us back an A-grade player. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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I suspect when we showed Heath the door, it was the straw that broke the camels back and the seeds were sown. I remember years back (maybe 2009/2010), there was talk about Beams and the 'go home factor' but it was a chance we were willing to take and such are things.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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