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| Nathan Buckley: what should the club do with him? |
| Sack him now and pay him out |
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18% |
[ 28 ] |
| Sack him at season's end and pay him out |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to sack) |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to keep) |
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17% |
[ 26 ] |
| Keep him until mid-season 2017, then reassess |
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5% |
[ 9 ] |
| Keep him until end of 2017, then reassess |
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17% |
[ 27 ] |
| Back him for as long as it takes! All We Can Be with NCB! |
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9% |
[ 15 ] |
| Other (please outline in the thread) |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 151 |
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| Author |
Message |
Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Well Leppa got 3 years and Bux got 6 years to prove themselves.
Notice the difference? |
Is this trivial persuit?
I'm up for the challenge.
Brisbane panicked and sacked Voss when fabulous Favola self destructed.
Then panicked again and sacked Leppa to cover up the exodus of all their players at the end of each year.
Difference is we didn't panick.
Do I win the prize? |
A dud is a dud is a dud.
Voss and Leppa weren't any good.
Same with Bux at the moment.
May change next year but I doubt it.
If you really want to see the difference between
Bux and a great coach look no further than the last
2 minutes of the 4th quarter.
I wrote of the exact set up at the centre bounce from us being 1 goal up.
Clarko got it completely right and Bux fu..ked it up.
The Hawk players knew exactly how to set up with that situation
We just basically went with the same game day setup.
It is a small difference but it meant the difference between a top 4 spot
and a bottom 4 final spot.
That is what all you buckley lovers don't understand.
He might get 90 % right but he is not getting 95% right and it is showing on the ladder. |
Exactly right. Near enough is not good enough. The first 7 rounds we were a disorganised rabble. Injuries didn't help, but the stoppage set ups were atrocious. And stoppage set ups are designed by the coaching staff. Bucks may not have designed them, but he signed off on them. They were just as responsible, if not more so, for our poor results than injuries or a young list |
So the latter half of the year shows an impressive ability of the coach to learn, adapt, and drill execution into a disorganised rabble ? He's better than I thought.
In truth, as everyone who has ever coached a young team (or managed anything complicated) knows, success = talent, plus practice, plus experience under pressure. We did not have all three in the first half, and increasingly we do.
So in the second half, we beat two top four sides and ran another to a point. We beat another top six side and ran the other to three points. Same coach as first half of the year, completely different types of results. Simple logic would suggest that the coach is not the key variable. |
Haha simple logic. The reason we were such a rabble in the first half of the year was the atrocious set ups and failure to drill the right game plan into players. The coach had no option but to change his game plan mid year to make sure the team was competitive. That's not good coaching. That's an unprepared coach that needs to coach the players 5% more after the Carlton loss cause he was asleep at the wheel during the preseason.
But you'll say it was all about injuries.
5-5 since the bye.
9-13 in 2016.
11-22 in last 33 games.
That's right a 33% win rate in the last 18 months. Don't worry, it's the players fault, no it's the assistants ... Wait no it's balmey's fault...
Other club supporters are all for Bucks staying on. I wonder why? |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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2 to 1 with losses in the last 33 games.
We are not up to standard at this point in time.
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Well Leppa got 3 years and Bux got 6 years to prove themselves.
Notice the difference? |
Is this trivial persuit?
I'm up for the challenge.
Brisbane panicked and sacked Voss when fabulous Favola self destructed.
Then panicked again and sacked Leppa to cover up the exodus of all their players at the end of each year.
Difference is we didn't panick.
Do I win the prize? |
A dud is a dud is a dud.
Voss and Leppa weren't any good.
Same with Bux at the moment.
May change next year but I doubt it.
If you really want to see the difference between
Bux and a great coach look no further than the last
2 minutes of the 4th quarter.
I wrote of the exact set up at the centre bounce from us being 1 goal up.
Clarko got it completely right and Bux fu..ked it up.
The Hawk players knew exactly how to set up with that situation
We just basically went with the same game day setup.
It is a small difference but it meant the difference between a top 4 spot
and a bottom 4 final spot.
That is what all you buckley lovers don't understand.
He might get 90 % right but he is not getting 95% right and it is showing on the ladder. |
Exactly right. Near enough is not good enough. The first 7 rounds we were a disorganised rabble. Injuries didn't help, but the stoppage set ups were atrocious. And stoppage set ups are designed by the coaching staff. Bucks may not have designed them, but he signed off on them. They were just as responsible, if not more so, for our poor results than injuries or a young list |
So the latter half of the year shows an impressive ability of the coach to learn, adapt, and drill execution into a disorganised rabble ? He's better than I thought.
In truth, as everyone who has ever coached a young team (or managed anything complicated) knows, success = talent, plus practice, plus experience under pressure. We did not have all three in the first half, and increasingly we do.
So in the second half, we beat two top four sides and ran another to a point. We beat another top six side and ran the other to three points. Same coach as first half of the year, completely different types of results. Simple logic would suggest that the coach is not the key variable. |
Haha simple logic. The reason we were such a rabble in the first half of the year was the atrocious set ups and failure to drill the right game plan into players. The coach had no option but to change his game plan mid year to make sure the team was competitive. That's not good coaching. That's an unprepared coach that needs to coach the players 5% more after the Carlton loss cause he was asleep at the wheel during the preseason.
But you'll say it was all about injuries.
5-5 since the bye.
9-13 in 2016.
11-22 in last 33 games.
Other club supporters are all for Bucks staying on. I wonder why? |
Can you provide any evidence for your last statement ? I doubt other club supporters give a damn who coaches Collingwood, any more than I give a damn about who coaches Carlton or Essendon. But since you stated it, can you substantiate it with verifiable data ?
And thanks for confirming that Buckley has shown a remarkable ability to turn a "rabble" into a team that can win half its contests against most of the ladder leaders.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Oh Mugwump
We could say that half the contests were lost to crap sides below us !
Works both ways man!
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Well Leppa got 3 years and Bux got 6 years to prove themselves.
Notice the difference? |
Is this trivial persuit?
I'm up for the challenge.
Brisbane panicked and sacked Voss when fabulous Favola self destructed.
Then panicked again and sacked Leppa to cover up the exodus of all their players at the end of each year.
Difference is we didn't panick.
Do I win the prize? |
A dud is a dud is a dud.
Voss and Leppa weren't any good.
Same with Bux at the moment.
May change next year but I doubt it.
If you really want to see the difference between
Bux and a great coach look no further than the last
2 minutes of the 4th quarter.
I wrote of the exact set up at the centre bounce from us being 1 goal up.
Clarko got it completely right and Bux fu..ked it up.
The Hawk players knew exactly how to set up with that situation
We just basically went with the same game day setup.
It is a small difference but it meant the difference between a top 4 spot
and a bottom 4 final spot.
That is what all you buckley lovers don't understand.
He might get 90 % right but he is not getting 95% right and it is showing on the ladder. |
Exactly right. Near enough is not good enough. The first 7 rounds we were a disorganised rabble. Injuries didn't help, but the stoppage set ups were atrocious. And stoppage set ups are designed by the coaching staff. Bucks may not have designed them, but he signed off on them. They were just as responsible, if not more so, for our poor results than injuries or a young list |
So the latter half of the year shows an impressive ability of the coach to learn, adapt, and drill execution into a disorganised rabble ? He's better than I thought.
In truth, as everyone who has ever coached a young team (or managed anything complicated) knows, success = talent, plus practice, plus experience under pressure. We did not have all three in the first half, and increasingly we do.
So in the second half, we beat two top four sides and ran another to a point. We beat another top six side and ran the other to three points. Same coach as first half of the year, completely different types of results. Simple logic would suggest that the coach is not the key variable. |
Haha simple logic. The reason we were such a rabble in the first half of the year was the atrocious set ups and failure to drill the right game plan into players. The coach had no option but to change his game plan mid year to make sure the team was competitive. That's not good coaching. That's an unprepared coach that needs to coach the players 5% more after the Carlton loss cause he was asleep at the wheel during the preseason.
But you'll say it was all about injuries.
5-5 since the bye.
9-13 in 2016.
11-22 in last 33 games.
Other club supporters are all for Bucks staying on. I wonder why? |
Can you provide any evidence for your last statement ? I doubt other club supporters give a damn who coaches Collingwood, any more than I give a damn about who coaches Carlton or Essendon. But since you stated it, can you substantiate it with verifiable data ?
And thanks for confirming that Buckley has shown a remarkable ability to turn a "rabble" into a team that can win half its contests against most of the ladder leaders. |
Haha you and statistical data. Every opposition supporter I talk to says it. They are glad he's still at the helm.
He didn't turn around a rabble. He was the reason for the rabble. Win half its contests against most of the ladder leaders??? What drugs you on? And where can I get some
Lost - Swans
Lost - WCE
Lost - Dogs
Won - Cats
Won - GWS
Won - WCE
Lost - North
Lost - Adelaide
Lost - Dogs
Lost - Hawks
Lost - Port
Lost - Melbourne
Lost - Melbourne
Lost - St Kilda
So against all the 11 sides that finished higher than us in 2016 we went a super impressive 3-11.
You can't be serious? That's appalling
Last edited by Krakouer Magic on Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| thompsoc wrote: | Oh Mugwump
We could say that half the contests were lost to crap sides below us !
Works both ways man! |
Not in the second half of the year, which was the context of the discussion. We lost to one side below us, and beat a lot of sides above us. I'll say it one more time - wins against GwS, WCE and Geelong. Losses to Dogs by 3 and hawks by 1 point. Look at the ladder positions at the end of the year. Those are the results of a contender. Our first half was bloody awful, for many reasons, but it was three months ago ; and that second half was damn impressive to any neutral observer (read the media reviews if you doubt it) and if the bloke cannot coach, it just could not happen. You cannot get sides with nothing to play for to deliver results like that against top opposition if you cannot coach.
_________________
Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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3 to 11
says it all.
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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didick
didick
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
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| Mugwump wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Oh Mugwump
We could say that half the contests were lost to crap sides below us !
Works both ways man! |
Not in the second half of the year, which was the context of the discussion. We lost to one side below us, and beat a lot of sides above us. I'll say it one more time - wins against GwS, WCE and Geelong. Losses to Dogs by 3 and hawks by 1 point. Look at the ladder positions at the end of the year. Those are the results of a contender. Our first half was bloody awful, for many reasons, but it was three months ago ; and that second half was damn impressive to any neutral observer (read the media reviews if you doubt it) and if the bloke cannot coach, it just could not happen. You cannot get sides with nothing to play for to deliver results like that against top opposition if you cannot coach. |
Geelong win was way back in round 9, around the time of some big wins over Brisbane and Essendon, and some insipid performances against west coast, Carlton and port Adelaide. A crackin first quarter and we held on for the final three.
I agree though that the second half of the year has seen improvement in general. I just marvel at the gulf between high and low standards week to week.
_________________
"The night is a very dark time for me" Chaz Michael Michaels |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| thompsoc wrote: | 3 to 11
says it all. |
Yeah mate. Don't take the last 18 months or 3 years into account. Just pick and choose a few wins at the back end of the year when the top 8 was set from round 12. The delusion is strong in this one. Logic not so much... 27% win rate vs teams better than us in 2016 |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | 3 to 11
says it all. |
Yeah mate. Don't take the last 18 months or 3 years into account. Just pick and choose a few wins at the back end of the year when the top 8 was set from round 12. The delusion is strong in this one. Logic not so much... 27% win rate vs teams better than us in 2016 |
It's them training loads i tells ya. And all the opposition supporters all want him to stay. I spoke to a few mates and they told me that.
I'd rather be on drugs as you suggest, than making up facts while sober.
Fortunately the future and the victories that are coming will convince everyone with an open mind, while you do your Comical Ali impression.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | 3 to 11
says it all. |
Yeah mate. Don't take the last 18 months or 3 years into account. Just pick and choose a few wins at the back end of the year when the top 8 was set from round 12. The delusion is strong in this one. Logic not so much... 27% win rate vs teams better than us in 2016 |
It's them training loads i tells ya. And all the opposition supporters all want him to stay. I spoke to a few mates and they told me that.
I'd rather be on drugs as you suggest, than making up facts while sober.
Fortunately the future and the victories that are coming will convince everyone with an open mind, while you do your Comical Ali impression. |
Bwahahaha this is pure comic genius. Is that you Nathan?? I'm the comical Ali??? The place is burning to the ground, assistant coaches about to be culled, administrators and recruiters about to leave and Cloke doesn't want a bar of the place and I'm the fool?
Like I said all along, from rounds 15 on top 8 sides have differing training loads to non top 8 sides. Happens every year. Always a few weird results. We used to do it when we had a better coach. You know one that played in and coached a premiership.
Keep holding on to those nothing wins vs Cats, GWS and WCE though. I'll keep remembering the fact we had a 27% win rate vs the 11 teams better than us in 2016. What an abysmal year |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | nomadjack wrote: | | Sorry, but that's way too simplistic a comparison. You have no idea what set up Bucks asked for or how close the players went to executing it. The final two minutes was most likely more about Clarko having 18 premiership players on the park with way more experience. |
And how many premierships had Fitzpatrick won? No pies players in the goal square at all or deep in defence? Why'd we not send 10 players into defensive 50 after the treloar goal? Why'd our premiership players in Goldsack and Brown not take the initiative to be loose deep in defence? Come on man. Clarko gives a message to the players they listen. Bucks gives a message and the players don't listen. You saw Bucks going nuts after the Fitzpatrick goal. Clearly a direction was given and not followed. When it happens a few times you question the players. When it happens for 5 years I think you can question whether the coach can get the message across |
And how many times does it happen with inexperienced sides across a year? It happens every bloody week. Ffs, what, you've coached at u12 level and watch a few replays and reckon you know more about coaching than the +1000 games in the box? If that's not delusions of grandeur I don't know what is. I'm sure Bucks and the rest of the coaching group are far from perfect but you're kidding yourself if you think you've got half a clue what the intended set up was, what instructions were given, what was followed, what wasn't or why. A few replays and some backwards mapping and you reckon you've got it all down pat...bollocks |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Krakouer magic wrote: |
" ..... Hawks weren't trying too hard. Dogs just did what they knew they had to, to win.... GWS were too tired from training loads.... Weagles will have increased training loads this week".... Those nothing wins against Geel, WCE GWS. |
Laughed off stage, sorry. Condemned by serial bizarreness. Don't know what your real motivation is, but it doesn't look like supporting Collingwood.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Krakouer magic wrote: |
" ..... Hawks weren't trying too hard. Dogs just did what they knew they had to, to win.... GWS were too tired from training loads.... Weagles will have increased training loads this week".... Those nothing wins against Geel, WCE GWS. |
Laughed off stage, sorry. Condemned by serial bizarreness. Don't know what your real motivation is, but it doesn't look like supporting Collingwood. |
Oh dear
Bring out that golden oldie..."you aren't really a collingwood supporter"!
Yawn
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| thompsoc wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Krakouer magic wrote: |
" ..... Hawks weren't trying too hard. Dogs just did what they knew they had to, to win.... GWS were too tired from training loads.... Weagles will have increased training loads this week".... Those nothing wins against Geel, WCE GWS. |
Laughed off stage, sorry. Condemned by serial bizarreness. Don't know what your real motivation is, but it doesn't look like supporting Collingwood. |
Oh dear
Bring out that golden oldie..."you aren't really a collingwood supporter"!
Yawn |
Cap seems to fit. Read the post.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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