Flag Burner at ANZAC Day?

[sherrife]

Dave you are on fire today! I COMPLETELY AGREE!!

Mate you can't start loving humanity by loving your country, because loving your country BY DEFINITION places boxes and limits on your love. For example, germans in WWII would have been loving their country and their country told them to hate Jews therefore they did. Had they loved humanity more than their nation, they would have told Hitler where to go and his fascist nationalism would never have taken off.

Patriotism simply places more lines in the sand from which to look at the 'other' in society. It's divisive, its alienating, its the cause of thousands of deaths, and it continues to this day to prevent people from seeing their similarities rather than their differences.

Lets put it this way:
1. I was born here by chance.
2. Due to being born here i have had access to incredible facilities and support networks.
3. Why should i deny these facilities to individuals who were unlucky enough to be born on an pacific island a few hundred kilometres away?
Conclusion - I value the lives of 'Australians' more so than the lives of human beings.

[bucksisgod]

[sherrife]

I wasn't even talking/thinking about muslims. That's Dave.

Allow me to explain my argument to you in more depth:

If nations didn't exist then a poor and starving refugee could arrive at our doorstep and be fed and given some protection and emotional/psychological support.
Instead, they have to wait in a prison for 2 years, because there is a "queue" to get into 'OUR country' (ours as in not THEIRS).

NOW do you see where nationalism and patriotism leads to negative outcomes for people not from Australia?? Once again: No nations = No borders to 'illegally' cross.

And another thing, you are absolutely kidding yourself if you can't see how fascism and national sentiment are related in the Hitler example. The whole way Hitler rose to power was to rely on the German population's nationalistic outrage over their treatment after WWI.

[bucksisgod]

I can see your point, but it's fairyland stuff. If there were No Nations? If your Uncle had boobs he'd be your Aunty. Won't ever happen. C'mon we're not Nazi Germany mate. Patriotism has no correllation with modern countries immigration laws. You can be proud, patriotic and welcoming. We have procedures that's just the way it is, I personally agree that illegals shouldn't be allowed to jump the queue at the expense of legitimate people following Government procedures for your safety and mine. I trust this system to embrace families and good people to enter and deters foreign crims from entering, we've got our own home growns to worry about. You can't just have open slather, maybe in a perfect world but not the current climate. But we're certainly not a closed shop. Mate, I love this country and it's diversity is all a part of that. I'm proud to be an Aussie, High taxes, expensive petrol, flag and all. You should be as proud to be an Australian(and I think you are, but won't admit it ) as I am.

[David]

[sherrife]

Dave the point is not that power is centralised further and further into a world government, but rather that the very notion of centralised decisionmaking by unrepresentative leaders is abolished. You're completely right that centralisation allows the potential for corruption and oppression.

Thats why each community needs to run itself as an independent entity, but not as an exclusive one.

[bucksisgod]

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

The thing I find amusing is that this kid is being chastised for burning a national symbol which more than likely was made in another country.
Now if he had of burned an emu or a kangaroo I'd be more concerned. Or even a Holden

[London Dave]

[bucksisgod]

[Magpie 24]

Flag burning is freedom of expression.

[bazdaddy]

Firstly to the majority in here who don;t care about the flag you're all a disgrace. It represents this grand nation, which is too often disrespected and lacking in patriotic actions. I dare say we ae one of the least patriotic nations in the world.

Secondly the kid marching with the flag is just patronising any of us who care about the flag and the country. The little shit should of been deported for such a disgraceful act. Having him march with it is taking the piss to the empth degree. If anyone went to the country of which his origins lie and burnt their flag in such a public arena I have no doubt's that person would be dead.

[London Dave]

People care about it. That's why perhpas they hate bigots who use it as a shield.

Don Rowe seems to have the right idea, but I guess a bloke who actually put hisl life on the line, as opposed to 'talkin about it' is just a loony lefty.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/lesson-in-forgiveness-in-the-face-of-snarling-hate/2006/10/13/1160246325216.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

[bucksisgod]

Amusing that now you say people care about it, When in your last post it was "Who cares if the kid burnt the flag". Well, myself, bazdaddy, Don Rowe, the kid himself and his family all care and think it was wrong. No one is saying an apology should be rejected, just that one is justified.
Don Rowe is not a loony leftie, he is a patriotic Australian who was gracious enough to accept the kids apology. Good on him too. Hardly endorses your view that it's no big deal to burn the flag. In fact the opposite. If not wrong to burn the flag, why apologise? Don Rowe accepting the apology endorses the view that is was wrong and warranted an apology and a schooling in our traditions. Which is exactly my point, Don is patriotic, understanding and welcoming.This kid and his family now see the error of his ways (Strange that you can't) and have offered members of the RSL over to their house for a BBQ on Anzac Day to forge a better relationship and understanding. Good on them.
Incidently, they also now fly an Australian flag at their house. Proud Australians- good result.