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bwphantom 
It's Better to Burn Out Than to Fade Away
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Location: Brisbane QLD
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Yea thanks Stui...I was serious about wanting to know. Because on Paper(I have not seen footage) seemed a little raw but in no way obscene or derogatory.
I will agree that it would have been better for him not to say anything at all.
And for the Liberal party members who did not show or walked out...and applies to all the people who turned their backs.Grow up!!!!!
True healing will only happen when people act as adults and work together.
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All this may be summed up in one word - CHARACTER - and if that is not worth developing, nothing is.
Jock McHale |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | bwphantom wrote: | I am not a nelson Supporter...or Rudd...but I fail to see why Nelson has been labeled as a Cock Head. I did not find what he said offensive at all.
Maybe someone could explain it to me. |
He picked the wrong moment to say things that people didn't want to hear. All he was doing was explaining what Krudd had already said, but wrong audience; wrong time. It wasn't about intentions, that wasn't what people wanted to hear. |
i don't have an issue with what nelson actually said but there is a time and place for everything and this wasn't it. remember, there are alternate views out there and not everyone is/was in favour of saying sorry.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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In what was supposed to be a speech supporting Rudd's motion apologising to the stolen generations he spent as much time trying to justify the behaviour of those who did the stealing as he did recognising the wrongs that were committed. Try the following paragraph:
"In offering this apology, let us not create one injustice in our attempt to address another.
Let no one forget that they [previous generations]sent their sons to war, shaping our identity and place in the world. One hundred thousand in two wars alone gave their lives in our name and our uniform, lying forever in distant lands; silent witnesses to the future they have given us. Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians lie alongside one another.
These generations considered their responsibilities to their country and one another more important than their rights.
They did not buy something until they had saved up for it and values were always more important than value.
Living in considerably more difficult times, they had dreams for our nation but little money.
Theirs was a mesh of values enshrined in God, King and Country and the belief in something greater than yourself. Neglectful indifference to all they achieved while seeing their actions in the separations only, through the values of our comfortable, modern Australia, will be to diminish ourselves."
This was not the time and place for this. The listing of tragic events noted by the Alice Springs crown prosecutor was also not appropriate in the circumstances. These are all important issues that need to be dealt with but to raise them today in the context of a supposed apology was insensitive, disengenuous, mean-spirited and completely innapproriate. I don't blame people for turning their backs. Why should they sit there and put up with bullshit like that that is more directed towards shoring up Nelson's leadership with hard right scumbags like Minchin and Abbott than serving as a genuine apology. Phuck the irrelevant arsehole and the horse he rode in on. |
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EBB
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Nelson is a twisted evil little mongrel.
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understanding stuff, with endeavour to overstand.. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| nomadjack wrote: | In what was supposed to be a speech supporting Rudd's motion apologising to the stolen generations he spent as much time trying to justify the behaviour of those who did the stealing as he did recognising the wrongs that were committed. Try the following paragraph:
"In offering this apology, let us not create one injustice in our attempt to address another.
Let no one forget that they [previous generations]sent their sons to war, shaping our identity and place in the world. One hundred thousand in two wars alone gave their lives in our name and our uniform, lying forever in distant lands; silent witnesses to the future they have given us. Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians lie alongside one another.
These generations considered their responsibilities to their country and one another more important than their rights.
They did not buy something until they had saved up for it and values were always more important than value.
Living in considerably more difficult times, they had dreams for our nation but little money.
Theirs was a mesh of values enshrined in God, King and Country and the belief in something greater than yourself. Neglectful indifference to all they achieved while seeing their actions in the separations only, through the values of our comfortable, modern Australia, will be to diminish ourselves."
This was not the time and place for this. The listing of tragic events noted by the Alice Springs crown prosecutor was also not appropriate in the circumstances. These are all important issues that need to be dealt with but to raise them today in the context of a supposed apology was insensitive, disengenuous, mean-spirited and completely innapproriate. I don't blame people for turning their backs. Why should they sit there and put up with bullshit like that that is more directed towards shoring up Nelson's leadership with hard right scumbags like Minchin and Abbott than serving as a genuine apology. Phuck the irrelevant arsehole and the horse he rode in on. |
I'm not sure about the "create another injustice" bit but the rest of it was fine. Just seriously, seriously bad timing. I don't know enough about the bloke to judge him as a person and I'm not going to defend or attack him just because of the office he holds. He was invited to make his say, which was a display of bi partisan politics and also a trap that he fell into head long.
Dumb and ill timed.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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blackandwhite4life 
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Location: sydney
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Nelson bringing up those who went and fought for their country was totally inappropriate, UNLESS he also mentioned the aborigines who did the same, but who came home to no recognition at all. Of course, he left that bit out.
Anybody who had any doubt about the worth of an apology need only look at the response of the majority of aboriginals today. All it took was a bit of effort, tolerance and understanding.
All in all, today was one of those rare days when you actually feel proud of your government, at least I did. Bit different to the last mob who weren't worth spitting on.
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Hearing the 'Black & White Army' roar is the greatest sound in the world. |
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blackandwhite4life
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Location: sydney
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Tess, they didn't turn their backs at the mention of NO Compensation.
Once Nelson started on about trying to justify the actions of those who were 'well meaning', those who went off to fight for their country.......etc, that was when he lost the plot and people turned their backs.
It was Nelson's attempt to pacify those in his party who have held the Howard view for so long, and who obviously still do. They turned a blind eye to the mountain of info that came out of the Stolen Generation Report, and selectively focused on the occasional success stories that might have occurred. For e.g. cases like Sid Jackson from Carlton. It doesn't ignore the overall monstrosity of what happened. Even Jackson would agree.
Rudd layed the unpleasant facts bare for everyone to see. Nelson was still singing partly from Howard's hymn book.
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Hearing the 'Black & White Army' roar is the greatest sound in the world. |
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bwphantom
It's Better to Burn Out Than to Fade Away
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Location: Brisbane QLD
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| nomadjack wrote: | In what was supposed to be a speech supporting Rudd's motion apologising to the stolen generations he spent as much time trying to justify the behaviour of those who did the stealing as he did recognising the wrongs that were committed. Try the following paragraph:
"In offering this apology, let us not create one injustice in our attempt to address another.
Let no one forget that they [previous generations]sent their sons to war, shaping our identity and place in the world. One hundred thousand in two wars alone gave their lives in our name and our uniform, lying forever in distant lands; silent witnesses to the future they have given us. Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians lie alongside one another.
These generations considered their responsibilities to their country and one another more important than their rights.
They did not buy something until they had saved up for it and values were always more important than value.
Living in considerably more difficult times, they had dreams for our nation but little money.
Theirs was a mesh of values enshrined in God, King and Country and the belief in something greater than yourself. Neglectful indifference to all they achieved while seeing their actions in the separations only, through the values of our comfortable, modern Australia, will be to diminish ourselves."
This was not the time and place for this. The listing of tragic events noted by the Alice Springs crown prosecutor was also not appropriate in the circumstances. These are all important issues that need to be dealt with but to raise them today in the context of a supposed apology was insensitive, disengenuous, mean-spirited and completely innapproriate. I don't blame people for turning their backs. Why should they sit there and put up with bullshit like that that is more directed towards shoring up Nelson's leadership with hard right scumbags like Minchin and Abbott than serving as a genuine apology. Phuck the irrelevant arsehole and the horse he rode in on. |
Yes i read that Nomad and i immediately thought that what he said was true. However, at an apology for past wrongdoings against a race of people was not the correct forum.
And John Howard not showing is just bad form.
But then again we are dealing with politicians and their childlike behaviour. At least Rudd hung his balls out there and was committed to doing what he deemed was right. As for Nelson well he is in opposition isn't he.
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All this may be summed up in one word - CHARACTER - and if that is not worth developing, nothing is.
Jock McHale |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Post subject: Re: Your a complete Dickhead Nelson!! | |
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| joffa corfe wrote: | Ashamed to call this bloke a fellow white Australian, and should be sacked from Parliament. Whatever happens to this complete cockhead his days as a public servant are numbered.
Shame on the Liberal Party who still live under the evil and uncaring regime of John Howard.
The minority white racist movement in this country could not brace the concept of this country walking forward as one. A day of such significance spoiled by a small minded minority group who are far from the meaning of being Australian.
The divide and conquer tactics did not work Nelson i bet your sorry now you poor pathetic white un- ostralian knob.
And for the parents around Australia who kept their kids at home as a way of stopping them witnessing this beautiful historic moment in Australian Politics.....Bogans!!
Typical tactics by bogan trash minority groups who believe that their own selfish beliefs far outway the betterment for everyone else.
Resign now Nelson you complete utter cock head of a human being!! |
The Liberals as always turn the statement into a discussion. Nelson was caught between a rock and a hard place. He has at least seven members who are against it. That is half his cabinet.  They were in power and ignored report after report unless they could use it to wedge and divide the country. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Frank Stone wrote: | | Nelson is very quickly becoming irrelevant |
Becoming?
The man was irrelevant before he even won the leadership.
Hard to see him in charge for much longer.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| blackandwhite4life wrote: | Tess, they didn't turn their backs at the mention of NO Compensation.
Once Nelson started on about trying to justify the actions of those who were 'well meaning', those who went off to fight for their country.......etc, that was when he lost the plot and people turned their backs.
It was Nelson's attempt to pacify those in his party who have held the Howard view for so long, and who obviously still do. They turned a blind eye to the mountain of info that came out of the Stolen Generation Report, and selectively focused on the occasional success stories that might have occurred. For e.g. cases like Sid Jackson from Carlton. It doesn't ignore the overall monstrosity of what happened. Even Jackson would agree.
Rudd layed the unpleasant facts bare for everyone to see. Nelson was still singing partly from Howard's hymn book. |
I disagree. Read the text of Nelson's statement.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/bfull-textb-brendan-nelsons-speech/2008/02/13/1202760363287.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2
About the only thing wrong with it is, as I said before, he picked the wrong audience. people on that day, after Rudd's apology, were never going to be in the mood to listen to facts. Just because it disagrees with what some would like to believe.
Even so, it's on the record now for posterity alongside Rudds which I'm sure was the intention.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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hoggy 
Bristle
Joined: 05 Jun 2001
Location: BT
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It all comes down to $$$
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Barge |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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FFS Stui, about the only thing wrong with it?  It's like someone saying, at your mother's funeral yeah sorry your mothers passed on, god she was a good lay though.
I've read the bloody thing and re-read it and every time I do it makes me angrier. It was completely inapproriate to raise the issues that were raised in the context of an apology and it shouldn't have been done.
Hoggy, if it was all about money, then members of the stolen generation wouldn't have accepted Rudd's apology with the good grace that they have. He has explicitly (and wrongly in my view) ruled out setting up a compensation fund, which means that any people seeking compensation will have to do so through the courts. This has proved almost impossible given the time elapsed in many cases and especially given the lack of documentary evidence surrounding most cases. |
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Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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| nomadjack wrote: | | It's like someone saying, at your mother's funeral yeah sorry your mothers passed on, god she was a good lay though. |
sorry, but that was piss funny.
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| nomadjack wrote: | FFS Stui, about the only thing wrong with it? It's like someone saying, at your mother's funeral yeah sorry your mothers passed on, god she was a good lay though.
I've read the bloody thing and re-read it and every time I do it makes me angrier. It was completely inapproriate to raise the issues that were raised in the context of an apology and it shouldn't have been done.
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I'll pay that. It was totally the wrong time, but the content in now way deserves the vitriol it's recieved from other posters.
If they thought it was appropriate for the day then it was an almighty fu*k up of a misjudgement. If it was done for the purposes of ensuring that it was on the record in Hansard etc alongside Rudd's apology, then I understand why.
Nice analogy BTW, very true and appropriate.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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