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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| think positive wrote: | how quickly you rush to the defence of someone because he is "smart"
and the holocaust didn't happen either |
What on earth are you on about with both lines & who are you talking to. 
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | Er, is that directed at me, or WPT? Neither of us are rubbishing Dylan's claims. We're just aware that there are many twists and turns to this story, particularly given some of Mia Farrow's behaviour.
From the article I posted above:
| Quote: | | In the midst of the proceedings, on February 2, 1993, a revealing article appeared in the Los Angeles Times, headlined: Nanny Casts Doubt on Farrow Charges, in which former nanny Monica Thompson (whose salary was paid by Allen, since three of the brood were also his) swore in a deposition to Allens attorneys that she was pressured by Farrow to support the molestation charges, and the pressure led her to resign her position. Thompson had this to say about the videotape: I know that the tape was made over the course of at least two and perhaps three days. I recall Ms. Farrow saying to Dylan at that time, Dylan, what did daddy do and what did he do next? Dylan appeared not to be interested, and Ms. Farrow would stop taping for a while and then continue. |
| Quote: | Judge Wilk would ultimately grant Mia custody of Satchel and Dylan. 15-year-old Moses chose not to see Woody, which was his right. It was a hard-won victory for Mia who returned home with eight of her nine children intact.
[...]
Moses Farrow, now 36, and an accomplished photographer, has been estranged from Mia for several years. During a recent conversation, he spoke of finally seeing the reality of Frog Hollow and used the term brainwashing without hesitation. He recently reestablished contact with Allen and is currently enjoying a renewed relationship with him and Soon-Yi. |
Just as Allen is entitled to a presumption of innocence, it would be wrong to use these claims (which may have their own motivations) to discredit Farrow or accuse her outright of manipulating her daughter. To be honest, I'm more inclined to believe her than I am Allen, and much more likely to believe Dylan. But I'm not a judge, and I haven't seen the evidence, so I understand that my opinion here is no more relevant than my opinion on the Higgs boson particle or the finer points of the Australian constitution. I don't think any of us have enough data to convict Allen from afar. |
Absolutely. That's what makes these allegations quite unfair for all concerned. However, the timing of the issue raised by Mia Farrow after her hurt of losing Allen & her (barely) adult adopted daughter Soon Yi at the time when they were first raised, put doubt as to their authenticity & veracity. I recall that quite clearly. I'm not saying they are my views but they current at the time.
Another twist in the tail is that Allen & Soon Yi are still together.
None of us know what occurred if anything did occur. the truth of the matter was that there was no evidence of any wrongdoing in legal or sexual terms.
(I wonder if any repressed memory therapist played a role here?)
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Oh a web page. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-03/woody-allen-rejects-dylan-farrow-abuse-claims/5234088
From the ABC website:
"....The experts concluded there was no credible evidence of molestation, that Dylan Farrow had an inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality, and that Dylan Farrow had likely been coached by her mother Mia Farrow," Ms Dart said....."
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I've never been a fan of Woody Allen as an artist and have no opinion of him as a human being.
I do however, think that being a successful "artist" should be no excuse for behaviour that would not be accepted from normal people.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| And yet Mel Gibson was pretty much ran out of the industry. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Can you provide any evidence for that, Wokko? Considering Gibson I think still owns his own production house (Icon), I'm sure he could be making and acting in films if he chose to. If he has been blacklisted, then I of course totally oppose that, but I'd like to see some facts supporting that claim before acknowledging that there's any kind of double standard at work here. (Not that it would surprise me. Hollywood is full of hacks and hypocrites.)
| stui magpie wrote: | | I do however, think that being a successful "artist" should be no excuse for behaviour that would not be accepted from normal people. |
I expect you'll find no disagreement in these pages.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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One thing I don't get is why people elsewhere on the web are accusing Nicholas Kristof (the guy who published Dylan's letter) of having a conflict of interest because of his friendship with Mia Farrow, while others have looked suspiciously on Robert Weide for his commercial connection to Allen (he directed a recent documentary about him). Who cares what conflict of interest they have? Dylan Farrow was surely entitled to write her testimony through whatever channel she could find; why not through a family friend? And it makes total sense that the first person to stick up for Woody Allen would be an associate. I don't see how that makes his defence any less worthy than a supposedly 'neutral' observer. These people aren't journalists; nobody ever said they had to be objective.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I care, otherwise I would not have typed it all in. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I had a quick look at Mel Gibson's Wikipedia page this morning and came across the story of his cameo in The Hangover Part 2 being cancelled after protests from cast and crew an odd double standard given (convicted rapist) Mike Tyson's painfully awkward 'acting' role in the first film. So, yes, it does seem like a weird case of hypocrisy.
Re: Dylan's claims, people are generally treading pretty lightly here, but I too would be disappointed if her experience was being dismissed because she was "just a kid" back then. A 7-year-old is more than capable of forming memories that can stay with them for the rest of their lives. However, people should know that even adults can have highly unreliable memories, to the point of creating them altogether. Coincidentally, I'm actually writing a piece on this very topic right now for The Conversation based on some soon-to-be-released scientific researchit's actually quite shocking how flexible our memories can be. While Dylan at the very least deserves the benefit of the doubt, we cannot accept her piece as a guilty verdict for Allen.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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So your assertion then is wrong by your own words.
He was not blacklisted despite your claim
Then you use a flimsy piece from a part of fox news to back up your assertion dated 2012.
Then you say he has enough of his own money to produce his films (through Hollywood).
In other words an inherent contradiction in your argument.
Was he or was he not blacklisted as you claim?
Christopher Hitchens wanted him blacklisted & punished not for being the extremist looney right winger that he is, not for being the nasty anti-semite that he is (His father is a holocaust denier from way back & the son has not fallen far from the tree) but for his serious errors & misrepresentations of Scottish history in his film Braveheart & his extremist right wing fundamentalist views on Christianity:
Hitchens on Gibson in the Slate (2010 - when Hitchens was alive)
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/07/mel_gibson_isnt_just_an_angry_narcissist.html
".. Why is there this reluctance to call something by its right name? It's not as if Gibson was issuing a cry for help. On the contrary, what he is issuing is the distilled violence, cruelty, and bigotryand sexual hypocrisythat stretches from the Crusades through the Inquisition to the "concordats" between the church and Hitler and Mussolini..."
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| watt price tully wrote: |
So your assertion then is wrong by your own words.
He was not blacklisted despite your claim
Then you use a flimsy piece from a part of fox news to back up your assertion dated 2012.
Then you say he has enough of his own money to produce his films (through Hollywood).
In other words an inherent contradiction in your argument.
Was he or was he not blacklisted as you claim?
Christopher Hitchens wanted him blacklisted & punished not for being the extremist looney right winger that he is, not for being the nasty anti-semite that he is (His father is a holocaust denier from way back & the son has not fallen far from the tree) but for his serious errors & misrepresentations of Scottish history in his film Braveheart & his extremist right wing fundamentalist views on Christianity:
Hitchens on Gibson in the Slate (2010 - when Hitchens was alive)
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/07/mel_gibson_isnt_just_an_angry_narcissist.html
".. Why is there this reluctance to call something by its right name? It's not as if Gibson was issuing a cry for help. On the contrary, what he is issuing is the distilled violence, cruelty, and bigotryand sexual hypocrisythat stretches from the Crusades through the Inquisition to the "concordats" between the church and Hitler and Mussolini..." |
| Quote: | Over the weekend while Robert Downey Jr. was on stage accepting an American Cinematheque Award in Beverly Hills, the actor focused some of his speech on Mel Gibson, asking Hollywood to forgive him. He said;
Unless you are without sin -- and if you are, you are in the wrong [expletive] industry -- you should forgive him and let him work.
Downey went on to say that when he was struggling with substance abuse issues that it was Mel that helped him get through that dark time and that Gibson was the one person that didnt turn his back on Robert. He said;
He taught my many things, and I will use the 'C' word courage. There's nothing so much wrong with him. Of course you have to worry about the guy making the judgment here. He's a good dude with a good heart. Mel and I have the same lawyer, same publicist, and same shrink. I couldn't get hired and he cast me. He said if I accepted responsibility -- he called it hugging the cactus -- long enough, my life would take meaning. And if he helped me, I would help the next guy. But it was not reasonable to expect the next guy would be him."
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAJuynxnTQ
He's managed to make some films because he is wealthy enough, and has a few friends left. Gibson is a great actor and director, one of the best but can barely get a gig. He's been blacklisted but is powerful and wealthy enough to be somewhat self sufficient. The guy who played Jesus in Passion of the Christ hasn't been quite so lucky.
| Quote: | | In 2004, Caviezel portrayed Jesus Christ in Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. During filming, he was struck by lightning, accidentally scourged, dislocated his shoulder, and suffered pneumonia and hypothermia.[10] Prior to filming, Gibson reportedly warned Caviezel that playing Jesus would hurt his acting career. In 2011, he admitted that good roles had been hard to come by ever since. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caviezel |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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^ & I'm sure he helps little old ladies cross the road.
That is beside the many points as you well know.
He was great in Gallipoli too
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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