Judging Bucks
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| perthmagpie wrote: | | But we have to remain patient. |
Historically, this is the biggest problem at Nick's. I still don't believe that most posters possess this important quality.
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | I think Buckley has done a decent job in recovering from the disastrous handover decision (to say that our list was inevitably headed for decline is ridiculous, it's the handover that made certain of it) and we are now, over 3 years later, close to recovering that lost ground. A different personality could have handled the situation more smoothly and with less player discontent, and while it's possible we may be better off in the long run, that is yet to be seen even if the signs are now looking good.
For mine, this is the first season under Bucks where we are performing at or above expectations. Finish the season off in the same way we've started and it will be a big tick for 2015. |
It is pure guess work and assumption to suggest Bucks didn't handle this well or that someone else could/would have done it better/more smoothly. You presume to understand the heart and souls of nearly 60 (players and coaches) individuals. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| droversdog65 wrote: | It was Mick's infantile posturing at the end of the '11 H&A series that made it a disastrous handover.
I don't know about the list but the gameplan was certainly shot half way through '11 and Mick doesn't do plan B's.
So yeah we were toast and the rest, as they say is history. |
Exactly. Bucks public persona shows him to be intellegent, calm and reasoned so I'm not sure why there is the continued assumption that Bucks the coach is anything like Bucks the player. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| Lazza wrote: | | perthmagpie wrote: | | But we have to remain patient. |
Historically, this is the biggest problem at Nick's. I still don't believe that most posters possess this important quality. |
this is not confined to nick's. yes, nick's a microcosm of what plays out in supportland but patience is not a virtue of many when it comes to footy results. even with all the education, presentation of facts and expectation management in the world you will not be able to placate some or sway opinion.
footy's an incredibly irrational passion and past time.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | to say that our list was inevitably headed for decline is ridiculous, it's the handover that made certain of it) |
So you didn't see a pattern emerging toward the end of 2011, which carried through 2012 where we made the prelim (under Buckley) before crashing out ? And you don't see some relationship to ageing /injury among a number of key players ? |
No. Give us the dream injury run and dream late season schedule in 2011 that we had in 2010 and we win the flag comfortably. We were a better team and the competition was weaker. Key injuries late in the year derailed our season. And yet, we were up mid way through the third in the GF. That's not a team that has been found out, it's a team that ran out of steam late (we also had a far tougher Prelim than the Cats).
After 2011 is where we made our mistakes. At this stage, as all teams do, we needed some minor regeneration. Instead we largely stuck with the status quo. We decided that Jolly was still dependable and that Wood was good enough to be the future. Neither was true. It's clear now that we should have looked for a ruckman coming into 2012 and we had a number of midfield assets that were tradeable and with sky high stocks.
Our Premiership team in 2010 was young enough that we had the chance to build sustained success. A change of coach which resulted in player disharmony, some long term injuries and a lack of will to make key list management changes put an end to that by 2013. |
Minor regeneration.... period 2010-2012 we turned over 32 players.... at least 15 of them arguably among our best 22's
2010 - Presti, Barham, Medhurst, Anthony, Cook, Rusling, O'Bree, Fraser, Lockyer, Blight, Francis, Carter - 12 players
2011 - Brown, McCarthy, Dick, Davis, Hunter, Reed, Gordon, Reilly, Perham, Bolton - 10 players
2012 - Buckley, Paine, Jolly, Shaw, Didak, Krakouer, Thomas, Russell, Hartley, Richmond - 10 players
That not minor enough for you? |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Honestly who can be bothered anymore with this merry go round.
But for one last time...
LOL.
Bucks appears to have the group heading in the right direction now which is terrific but let's not sweep the issues and concerns of previous seasons under the rug and pretend they never existed.
He isn't perfect and had some lessons to learn like all new coaches.
A_I raises some valid points and it's hard to argue we wouldn't have had a better chance of pinching one more flag in 2012 with Malthouse still at the helm.
However while you feel the coaching handover hurt us in the short term we have come through that period now and it'd hard to argue that our short to medium future hopes are improved because of it.
I seriously doubt we would have the depth of young talent emerging if Malthouse was still in charge principally because the trading of premiership players wouldn't have occurred to the same degree, Thomas would be still at the club and Beams might well be also but that's open to conjecture.
He might have felt compelled also to hang on to players like Didak and Jolly for one season to long.
For mine though given what occurred to Carlton under his watch I feel the brand of football we would have been playing in season 2015 under his watch would have been outdated and non competitive to a large degree.
The game has changed markedly since 2010, it's gotten even quicker, more direct and the coaches playbook of set plays and tactics ever growing.
His brand of football stood up well for 3 decades no doubt but I feel what was once it's strength of predictability and lower risk was now it's greatest weakness.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| swoop42 wrote: |
His brand of football stood up well for 3 decades no doubt but I feel what was once it's strength of predictability and lower risk was now it's greatest weakness. |
this bit hasn't changed much. you want predictability or even predictable unpredictability. most teams are still fairly low risk, create the stoppage, reset and go again.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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| swoop42 wrote: | Honestly who can be bothered anymore with this merry go round.
But for one last time...
LOL.
Bucks appears to have the group heading in the right direction now which is terrific but let's not sweep the issues and concerns of previous seasons under the rug and pretend they never existed.
He isn't perfect and had some lessons to learn like all new coaches.
A_I raises some valid points and it's hard to argue we wouldn't have had a better chance of pinching one more flag in 2012 with Malthouse still at the helm.
However while you feel the coaching handover hurt us in the short term we have come through that period now and it'd hard to argue that our short to medium future hopes are improved because of it.
I seriously doubt we would have the depth of young talent emerging if Malthouse was still in charge principally because the trading of premiership players wouldn't have occurred to the same degree, Thomas would be still at the club and Beams might well be also but that's open to conjecture.
He might have felt compelled also to hang on to players like Didak and Jolly for one season to long.
For mine though given what occurred to Carlton under his watch I feel the brand of football we would have been playing in season 2015 under his watch would have been outdated and non competitive to a large degree.
The game has changed markedly since 2010, it's gotten even quicker, more direct and the coaches playbook of set plays and tactics ever growing.
His brand of football stood up well for 3 decades no doubt but I feel what was once it's strength of predictability and lower risk was now it's greatest weakness. |
Regarding the underlined Swoop . . .
We would have had a lot better chance of back to back in '11 without Mick's infantile posturing on the footy show.
AND
If he didn't keep an obviously injured Reid on a rampaging Tommahawk, there simply isn't any excuse for that - due to his man being injured and replaced Tarrant could have easily been put onto the Hawk.
Spite is the reason Swoop - pure and simple nasty spite - from the moment he made that disgraceful comment after the '10 GF he was determined to force the club to break Bucks contract and when they wouldn't he saw a chance and took it.
I know he shot himself in the foot by denying himself back to back premierships but spiteful people are like that, they will do just about anything to vent their spite. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Yeah but there is predictability then there is Malthouse predictability of using the boundary ad nauseam.
Talk was Scott used this to his advantage back in 2011.
Wouldn't surprise if the scum continued to use the corridor less than any other side and in today's game where fast rebound (sling shot) and over lapping run is key it's a liability.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| droversdog65 wrote: | | I know he shot himself in the foot by denying himself back to back premierships but spiteful people are like that, they will do just about anything to vent their spite. |
Honestly, this is very true although quite hard to empathise with or fully understand for sensible people. Weird thinking at its worse and MM was a prime example of this in 2011.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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He has NEVER ahd a full and unijured list too choose from, not even now, he has two top ten picks yet to play one single game, injured, and ben reid keeps getting injured, Mc caffer is a huge loss, and no greenwood yet. Yet, hes rejuvenated our list, the old MM team is long, long gone, we have an exciting gameplan, a very young team, on verge of finals. He has done well, damned welll, and only a mortifying fool would think otherwise. !
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | only a mortifying fool would think otherwise. ! |
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We know that all types post here Piesnchess! Some have it in their bloody DNA to be eternally pessimistic about Buck's coaching. 
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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For mine he has done well thus far this year.
We looked well organised across the park.
We run games out well
We have options in various positions and seem to transition with limited hassle if injury impacts
The players seem very united as a group and the whole club is singing off the same song sheet.
But I wouldn't be giving him a contract extension today
I want to see how we go the next 4/6 weeks.
We were in the same position at this point in time last year and fell over very badly.
We play very good teams the next 4/6 weeks and whilst I want to win every game I would settle for 2/3 wins and being very competitive in all games.
Achieve this and bucks gets 3yrs and possibly more.
Stability has been the hallmark of eddie's reign so I assume he and the board have certain criteria that needed to be ticked before the extension was granted.
I'm assuming the majority of them would have been ticked off with the exception of being competitive against the top sides on a week in out basis which the next 4/6 weeks provides the opportunity for.
I don't see a logical replacement for him either which is a positive for him.
If we turn and are 10/7 11/6 at end of rd 17 then he has earned his extension and we are shoe ins for finals and that to me would be an achievement given we still haven't had our best 22 on the park for a single game together in the past 2 seasons |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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It has to be said 100 times. We really haven't beaten any of the outstanding sides, and we have looked very vulnerable at times to ordinary teams. So it's pretty early to speculate about how good we are this year. But I don't think that is the point. The point is that we are steadily improving under his regime as younger players grow and already good ones refine what they are good at. That's what a coach is for.
Look at any of his masterful TV appearances and if he does not inspire you with his maturity, sef-possession, command and knowledge then you're probably not open to persuasion. Whether he yet has enough of the right players at the right level fo development is a tale that will be told over the coming weeks. but even that wil lnot tell us whether he is a good coach.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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even if we have still to beat anyone, if we had lost those games all hell would be breaking lose. we have yet to do what geelong has done and lost a game we should have won.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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