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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Stupied wrote: | | If holding players to the same standard as I hold myself is getting on my high horse, so be it. If you're willing to condone the usage of illegal or banned substances by using the bullshit 'we all make mistakes' excuse, then that's your prerogative. |
FWIW, you are on the wrong wavelength mate. I work in the field of Social Work and have had more experience than most with its devastating effects and consequences on both individuals and their families. I totally hate and detest illegal drug use. However, I'm also experienced enough not to ever judge people by my own standards and to recognise that no two cases are ever the same to the same extent of intention, drug use, consequences, jail time, etc etc. By judging people by your own standards, you risk the real possibility of setting themselves up for failure to meet them adequately.
We don’t know what really happened with these two blokes but my comments are based purely on my guessing that it was not intentional use for cheating purposes. Assuming that, my opinion would be to give them a second chance. If you disagree that’s fine as I fully respect and listen to opposing views and perspectives on this incredibly complex societal issue.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Lazza wrote: | | Stupied wrote: | | If holding players to the same standard as I hold myself is getting on my high horse, so be it. If you're willing to condone the usage of illegal or banned substances by using the bullshit 'we all make mistakes' excuse, then that's your prerogative. |
FWIW, you are on the wrong wavelength mate. I work in the field of Social Work and have had more experience than most with its devastating effects and consequences on both individuals and their families. I totally hate and detest illegal drug use. However, I'm also experienced enough not to ever judge people by my own standards and to recognise that no two cases are ever the same to the same extent of intention, drug use, consequences, jail time, etc etc. By judging people by your own standards, you risk the real possibility of setting themselves up for failure to meet them adequately.
We don’t know what really happened with these two blokes but my comments are based purely on my guessing that it was not intentional use for cheating purposes. Assuming that, my opinion would be to give them a second chance. If you disagree that’s fine as I fully respect and listen to opposing views and perspectives on this incredibly complex societal issue. |
Well said Lazza. |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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| Lazza wrote: | | Stupied wrote: | | If holding players to the same standard as I hold myself is getting on my high horse, so be it. If you're willing to condone the usage of illegal or banned substances by using the bullshit 'we all make mistakes' excuse, then that's your prerogative. |
FWIW, you are on the wrong wavelength mate. I work in the field of Social Work and have had more experience than most with its devastating effects and consequences on both individuals and their families. I totally hate and detest illegal drug use. However, I'm also experienced enough not to ever judge people by my own standards and to recognise that no two cases are ever the same to the same extent of intention, drug use, consequences, jail time, etc etc. By judging people by your own standards, you risk the real possibility of setting themselves up for failure to meet them adequately.
We don’t know what really happened with these two blokes but my comments are based purely on my guessing that it was not intentional use for cheating purposes. Assuming that, my opinion would be to give them a second chance. If you disagree that’s fine as I fully respect and listen to opposing views and perspectives on this incredibly complex societal issue. |
You're kidding right? You're trying to compare two professional athletes to your social work cases? Really? These are two guys that from all reports, have no major personal issues, come from good homes, and have the support of the biggest sporting club in the land, and apparently I'm not meant to hold them to the same standards as I hold myself (which fwiw, aren't that high).
I can understand where you're coming from in regards to the people you work with, but sorry, can't agree that expecting two guys simply to obey the rules of their sport/work, and the rules of law, is to high of an expectation. |
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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Want to wait to actual facts come out before deciding their fate
If they deliberately took PED's then out
If they coked and it was cut then I may support them it depends on the facts presented and their responses.
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| neil wrote: | Want to wait to actual facts come out before deciding their fate
If they deliberately took PED's then out
If they coked and it was cut then I may support them it depends on the facts presented and their responses. |
I doubt the facts are going to come out neil. My reading of the case is that to avoid police inquiries about the source of any recreational drugs, the guys are likely to simply plead guilty to having PEDs in their system and not offer an explanation as to how that occurred.
However, Collingwood has said that they would have to offer an explanation to the club - which would presumably be kept in-house - for their pleas to be kept on as rookies to be considered.
So the bottom line is that we may never find out the true facts, though the media has already inferred the most likely scenario many times. We know they were partying at the StKilda festival with several other players and 2 days later they tested positive for PEDs. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the likely source of the PEDs. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| That would be the "several other players", RB? |
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gurugeoff
Joined: 09 Oct 2013
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as my brother says "First world problem" - taking peds or illicits totally insignificant when compared to the problems around the world.
Club has always said they are top rate blokes, so, as far as i am concerned, Keefe can line up at full forward tomorrow if available.
ok, they tried something. Big deal, move on. I'm sure their lesson has been learnt. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| gurugeoff wrote: | as my brother says "First world problem" - taking peds or illicits totally insignificant when compared to the problems around the world.
Club has always said they are top rate blokes, so, as far as i am concerned, Keefe can line up at full forward tomorrow if available.
ok, they tried something. Big deal, move on. I'm sure their lesson has been learnt. |
Yep, to each their own but FWIW, I fully agree with you on this.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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AnthonyC 
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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Let he who is without sin... , FMD.
It's interesting how people form an opinion without facts.
The fact is that under the 'strict liability' policy, however they came to have ingested the stuff is irrelevant. They are guilty according to the Rules of Sport.
That however shouldn't be used against them in terms of assessing their character. If they were deliberately spiked would you still consider them to be loose cannons and should be dumped without a second thought? In any respect they'd still be guilty.
As far as I know the players have only 'claimed' to have eaten contaminated meat. Is it BS? Maybe. But no-one that I'm aware of has admitted to either deliberate doping or taking an illicit drug that contained the banned substance.
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Go Pies! |
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gurugeoff
Joined: 09 Oct 2013
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| AnthonyC wrote: | Let he who is without sin... , FMD.
It's interesting how people form an opinion without facts.
The fact is that under the 'strict liability' policy, however they came to have ingested the stuff is irrelevant. They are guilty according to the Rules of Sport.
That however shouldn't be used against them in terms of assessing their character. If they were deliberately spiked would you still consider them to be loose cannons and should be dumped without a second thought? In any respect they'd still be guilty.
As far as I know the players have only 'claimed' to have eaten contaminated meat. Is it BS? Maybe. But no-one that I'm aware of has admitted to either deliberate doping or taking an illicit drug that contained the banned substance. |
i don't think it is BS Anthony, probably rump or T bone. |
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AnthonyC
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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| gurugeoff wrote: |
i don't think it is BS Anthony, probably rump or T bone. |
Ahh, Clenbuterloin, a prime cut.
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Go Pies! |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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It all comes down to if the club believe their story, if they don't believe them it's delist, if they do we stick by them.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Rexy17
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Location: Ballarat
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| Stupied wrote: | | Lazza wrote: | | Stupied wrote: | | no sympathy from me there, as cold as it might sound. |
Yeah I suppose when you are that high up on your horse, it must get very cold for you..  |
If holding players to the same standard as I hold myself is getting on my high horse, so be it. If you're willing to condone the usage of illegal or banned substances by using the bullshit 'we all make mistakes' excuse, then that's your prerogative. |
Could not agree with you more....well said
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B.U.M.S ROCK...That's Ballarat United Magpies Supporters.....Long trip but even longer hangovers! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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If they deliberately took performance enhancing drugs, piss em off.
If they took them accidently, even if that involved illegal party drugs, different argument. People who are caught by the drug testers for taking illegal party drugs don't get sacked or suspended until the 3rd strike, why treat them any differently?
by the time the details are announced, 1 season will be nearly up so looking forward we'd be looking at carrying them on the list for 2016.
If that's what the club decides to know in full knowledge of the facts, I'd support it. Likewise if they get chopped, although I would prefer to keep at least Keeffe.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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SteveH67
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
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If they are out for 2 years or longer, delist.
I don't agree with all this rookie list stuff.
2 years out of the system, they cannot play anywhere, don't forget.
I wasn't completely sold on Keeffe, and Thomas never did enough to suggest he deserves a rookie spot anyway.
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Social club member 7342 since 2000. |
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