Have We Improved?
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| matrix10 wrote: | As much as I hate statistics- you have clearly pointed out what any rational football supporter would realise.
We have improved greatly from last year- and are well placed heading into the next few seasons.
We have improved offensively and defensively.
5 games lost lost by under 2 goals- all against top teams.
That said- the haters will hate- some people are only happy in life when they are miserable. |
What a miserable post.
But actually the only improvement I see this year is Varcoe and Crisp and Adams.
All the other draft picks we've had over the last 5 or 6 years have not improved us as a team at the moment.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | However, given our similar age profile, I'd like to know why the Bulldogs have performed so much better than us this year? Has their recruiting been better than ours, or have they got a better coach? Or maybe, they'll be like Port; something of a flash in the pan, only to slide down the ladder next year? |
Rudey, Bontempelli and Stringer were absolute freaks to score as first round draft picks in the last few years. They are something else.
The sort of blokes that make average players lift around them.
They give the side belief.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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Stinga
Joined: 31 May 2008
Location: Pies Territory
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Last year's effort and performance from R13 onwards was woeful, apart from a gutsy win against Port. Whilst our W/L ratio is probably going to end up similar, our effort apart from the Melb and Carl games has been significantly better and as many have mentioned we've run Hawks, Swines and Freo very close. If we don't drop our bundle the last three games and keep playing the kids then I'll have some hope for making the 8 next year and continuing the upwards trend in the years following. A lot to like about Moore, DeGoey, Maynard, Marsh, Sharenberg, Ramsay, Broomy and Oxley in their early days. They need to replace the NQRs of Tooves, Sinkers, Goldie, Blair, White. Grundy & Witts need to take another couple of steps in their development and become strong consistent performers. And our supposed A graders need to show more leadership and become match winners. And hopefully we get some quality at the trade table.
R13 H Western Bulldogs 3.2 9.4 12.6 15.8 98 4.2 9.5 13.6 16.10 106 L Docklands 28339 15-Jun-2014 3:20 PM
R14 A Hawthorn 3.1 6.4 9.7 13.8 86 4.3 7.7 12.10 17.13 115 L M.C.G. 70516 21-Jun-2014 2:10 PM
R15 H Carlton 6.3 8.8 10.12 13.13 91 2.2 6.3 7.7 11.10 76 W M.C.G. 40939 29-Jun-2014 7:10 PM
R16 A Gold Coast 4.3 6.8 6.13 10.15 75 2.2 5.3 8.7 11.14 80 L Carrara 24032 05-Jul-2014 4:40 PM
R17 A Essendon 2.4 2.6 4.9 5.9 39 4.0 8.1 14.1 16.7 103 L M.C.G. 58996 13-Jul-2014 3:20 PM
R18 H Adelaide 3.0 5.4 8.8 12.10 82 5.5 7.8 9.13 14.14 98 L M.C.G. 41486 27-Jul-2014 4:40 PM
R19 H Port Adelaide 2.3 6.6 9.7 11.10 76 1.0 5.7 8.8 10.10 70 W M.C.G. 32807 03-Aug-2014 4:40 PM
R20 A West Coast 2.1 7.2 8.4 10.6 66 6.5 9.7 15.10 19.12 126 L Subiaco 36458 10-Aug-2014 2:40 PM
R21 H Brisbane Lions 4.3 5.3 6.6 8.8 56 6.1 10.7 15.11 18.15 123 L M.C.G. 32929 16-Aug-2014 7:40 PM
R22 A Greater Western Sydney 2.3 5.5 7.7 11.9 75 3.4 6.6 8.11 9.13 67 W Showground 10851 23-Aug-2014 4:40 PM
R23 H Hawthorn 2.3 4.6 5.8 8.8 56 1.4 8.8 12.9 18.13 121 L M.C.G. 48980 29-Aug-2014 7:50 PM |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| piedys wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | However, given our similar age profile, I'd like to know why the Bulldogs have performed so much better than us this year? Has their recruiting been better than ours, or have they got a better coach? Or maybe, they'll be like Port; something of a flash in the pan, only to slide down the ladder next year? |
Rudey, Bontempelli and Stringer were absolute freaks to score as first round draft picks in the last few years. They are something else.
The sort of blokes that make average players lift around them.
They give the side belief. |
And even earlier picks like McRae. The lower you finish, the better the chances you have of grabbing those top kids. Then add F/S prospects in Libba and Wallis for 2nd & 3rd round picks. Then add the Doggies have tended to use their high picks in the draft instead of trading them out like we have in 07, 09, 10 & 11.
So it's a combination of factors. We'll have to wait and see if their game style holds up in finals and then they'll have a more difficult draw in 2016 so it might turn quickly for them. |
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piedys
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| jackcass wrote: | | piedys wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | However, given our similar age profile, I'd like to know why the Bulldogs have performed so much better than us this year? Has their recruiting been better than ours, or have they got a better coach? Or maybe, they'll be like Port; something of a flash in the pan, only to slide down the ladder next year? |
Rudey, Bontempelli and Stringer were absolute freaks to score as first round draft picks in the last few years. They are something else.
The sort of blokes that make average players lift around them.
They give the side belief. |
And even earlier picks like McRae. The lower you finish, the better the chances you have of grabbing those top kids. Then add F/S prospects in Libba and Wallis for 2nd & 3rd round picks. Then add the Doggies have tended to use their high picks in the draft instead of trading them out like we have in 07, 09, 10 & 11.
So it's a combination of factors. We'll have to wait and see if their game style holds up in finals and then they'll have a more difficult draw in 2016 so it might turn quickly for them. |
True Jackcass; now either the Dogs got smart, lucky, or both in those previous drafts.
Some clubs, like Carlton or Melbourne, seem to be chained to the bottom rung of the table, despite having similar draft selections over the same period.
And I for one didn't expect Libba and Wallis to step up to the plate at AFL level and excel the way they have. Pains in the arse, like their fathers.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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| thompsoc wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | As much as I hate statistics- you have clearly pointed out what any rational football supporter would realise.
We have improved greatly from last year- and are well placed heading into the next few seasons.
We have improved offensively and defensively.
5 games lost lost by under 2 goals- all against top teams.
That said- the haters will hate- some people are only happy in life when they are miserable. |
What a miserable post.
But actually the only improvement I see this year is Varcoe and Crisp and Adams.
All the other draft picks we've had over the last 5 or 6 years have not improved us as a team at the moment. |
perhaps you need some (new) glasses Grumpelstilskin.
you do make me laugh though  |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| swoop42 wrote: | You can add Adelaide to the dogs as another relatively young group who have exceeded our performances this season.
Who knows what they might have achieved without the Walsh tragedy.
Richmond and West Coast one season ahead in terms of age profile I guess but Simpson is only in his second season.
The most telling of stats that you have provided would be in relation to our disposal and mark ranking.
These would indicate we have put far more emphasis on moving the ball via handball this season.
I've put together my own stat.
We've fared better than I imagined but not surprising who is top 2.
Average disposals per goal ratio:
Hawthorn 24.16
West Coast 25.04
Nth Melb 25.84
Adelaide 26.43
Port Adelaide 27.59
Collingwood 27.63
W. Bulldogs 27.65
Geelong 27.95
Gold Coast 29.54
Fremantle 30.21
GWS 30.29
Richmond 30.64
St Kilda 31.61
Sydney 31.90
Melbourne 32.51
Carlton 33.96
Brisbane 36.39
Essendon 36.89 |
Yeah I was surprised that our scoring power stacks up well, it hasn't felt that way for much of the year.
The way I see it and why I'm comfortable with where we are is: we've drafted well and brought in more young players the last two years than any team other than the Suns and Giants. This is the necessary groundwork of a successful rebuild and I think we've done it well. We're at a similar place Hawthorn were in the Schwab and early Clarkson years (remember there was pressure on Al early also).
Our team has come together and we are playing competitive and (mostly) well organised football. It's true that we lack a bit of flair and ability to break a game open, but these are icing and are not difficult to add. Just like Hawthorn failed to draft an elite skilled, classy mid, a ruckman, or key defender and had to go out and trade for them, we may have to look outside to complete our build. Having a large number of young players with games under their belts means we have movable assets.
No doubt that the injuries to Scharenberg and Freeman have been a massive blow. They were brought in as difference makers to a somewhat samey midfield, Kennedy's inability to make it as a senior player has been a problem also. Broomhead is showing some signs and hopefully he can have more of an impact next year. We do have some of the linebreaking and polish on our list, we just need them to play and start to impact games.
What about the Bulldogs? I don't completely believe their form. Their draw has been very favourable and you get these kind of ladder leaps from time to time which then level out the next season. I don't think there's much between us, the Dogs, Power and Adelaide. What I'm confident of is that we are heading for finals in the next two years. How far we go is impossible to say as it depends on how other teams develop not only ours. I am certain though that we have enough quality to be competing and that's all you can ask for.
On Bucks? He's done an excellent job in overseeing a quick rebuild. The question will be once that is completed, does he have the ability to take us all the way? I really don't see how I can judge this. We are moving forward, the defensive aspects of our game are now top notch, but there is some work to be done on organisation and attack. Buckley acknowledges this so there's no reason to think he can't do it. If not though, we need to be ready to move him on much as Hawthorn moved on Schawab after he completed the groundwork for their success. As with others I'm concerned that if it came to that Ed may not be prepared to make the decision, just one of he reasons I thought the handover was a mistake. But I'm certainly optimistic that this is not something that we will need to concern ourselves with.
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Well done boys! |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | Of Course we HAVE improved, vastly on last season, not in wins, but by the fact, that not once have we been belted by more than eight goals, in our losses, not once, whereas last season we copped some gawd awful thrashings. We ran the piss and poop, swantits, dockers, weagles, all pretty close, no hidings there, yes, we have improved a lot, and learning by each passing game, getting games into our youngsters. |
Very Good Points. We have not had a Smashing like we where copping late last year.
Just have to Remember we got Smashed by the Lions,Eagles and Essendon last year
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I am Da Man |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Bulldogs and Adelaide started their rebuild in '10 after making finals for a while, we didn't start ours until 2012. |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Wokko wrote: | | Bulldogs and Adelaide started their rebuild in '10 after making finals for a while, we didn't start ours until 2012. |
Spot On. They are 2-3 Years Ahead of us in there Re-Builds
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I am Da Man |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| matrix10 wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | As much as I hate statistics- you have clearly pointed out what any rational football supporter would realise.
We have improved greatly from last year- and are well placed heading into the next few seasons.
We have improved offensively and defensively.
5 games lost lost by under 2 goals- all against top teams.
That said- the haters will hate- some people are only happy in life when they are miserable. |
What a miserable post.
But actually the only improvement I see this year is Varcoe and Crisp and Adams.
All the other draft picks we've had over the last 5 or 6 years have not improved us as a team at the moment. |
perhaps you need some (new) glasses Grumpelstilskin.
you do make me laugh though |
The haters of the haters always make me chuckle.
They are an enigma wrapped in a riddle.
Or maybe they are just stupid
It is hard to tell from this position.
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Gerry Cooper
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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Such stats are somewhat misleading. Do they show how many of those disposals went to an opposition player? Or over the head of our player? Does it show how many of those disposals are part of a panicked chain of handballs that end up in a turnover? Does it show how many disposals are missed shots for goal by experienced players?
The answer is they don't. Those stats hide more than they reveal I suspect.
Marks are down on 2014 which may indicate somewhat poorer disposal than last year - either that or we are handballing more.
I think we have improved but we have a long way to go before we can be called a dominant side. At the moment we are a mediocre side and likely to stay that way for a year or two yet, and there may be significant changes made in order to achieve that significant improvement so many of us crave.
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We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.� |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| thompsoc wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | As much as I hate statistics- you have clearly pointed out what any rational football supporter would realise.
We have improved greatly from last year- and are well placed heading into the next few seasons.
We have improved offensively and defensively.
5 games lost lost by under 2 goals- all against top teams.
That said- the haters will hate- some people are only happy in life when they are miserable. |
What a miserable post.
But actually the only improvement I see this year is Varcoe and Crisp and Adams.
All the other draft picks we've had over the last 5 or 6 years have not improved us as a team at the moment. |
perhaps you need some (new) glasses Grumpelstilskin.
you do make me laugh though |
The haters of the haters always make me chuckle.
They are an enigma wrapped in a riddle.
Or maybe they are just stupid
It is hard to tell from this position. |
Why would anyone be a hater ? It's such a strange place for a supporter to be....
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Cuthbert Collingwood 
Once was on fire, now all at sea
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: The BBC (Brunswick Bowling Club)
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| thompsoc wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | As much as I hate statistics- you have clearly pointed out what any rational football supporter would realise.
We have improved greatly from last year- and are well placed heading into the next few seasons.
We have improved offensively and defensively.
5 games lost lost by under 2 goals- all against top teams.
That said- the haters will hate- some people are only happy in life when they are miserable. |
What a miserable post.
But actually the only improvement I see this year is Varcoe and Crisp and Adams.
All the other draft picks we've had over the last 5 or 6 years have not improved us as a team at the moment. |
perhaps you need some (new) glasses Grumpelstilskin.
you do make me laugh though |
The haters of the haters always make me chuckle.
They are an enigma wrapped in a riddle.
Or maybe they are just stupid
It is hard to tell from this position. |
You should be a Luberal party spin doctor, or maybe a Herald Sun columnist.
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McRae for Governor-General! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What are the ingredients? |
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