Kicking shall determine Buckley's future:

[mattys123]

Is this solely Buckley's fault?

Surely Hine has to take a lot of the credit, or in this case blame for a list full of players who can't kick the ball at an elite level.

They say once you draft a player, they can only improve their field kicking by about 10-15% over the length of their career, so really the fault lies in who we are picking at the draft, rather than coaching.

Of the kids we drafted this year only Tom Phillips and Ben Crocker are the 2 who stand out that have elite or the potential to improve to elite kicks.

[jackcass]

[HAL]

When?

[makri]

Obsessed with recruiting athletes who might be good footballers rather than footballers.

[yin-YANG]

There is a reason why defenders are not that great at kicking… they are defenders mainly!

I think we are moving to a better back line but it would be silly to have only neat kicks in the back line. Being a good kick does not help stopping a forward from getting the ball! These guys need to be accountable, have pace, even a little mongrel, be able to read the play etc… And yes when we have the ball it would be great for the rebound to come out with vision and perfect execution.

Reid, and Oxley are two great additions to the back line. I was hoping Aish would also provide some polish but he is quite raw and not quite there yet. Deserves more time though.

So for me our back line is looking OK with pendles going back to help out…!
Williams, Brown, Ramsay
Oxley, Reid, Sinclair
with Pendles dropping back to help and Aish off the bench to rotate with sinclair and Ramsay… of course Frost and Marsh are also handy to back-up as needed and the oldies Goldy and Tooves also add good depth. I am not as convinced about Maynard as yet and have Ramsay ahead of him.

So I think we have the mix right - they just need to gel. Langdon has fallen away and although Williams is an average kick you need his run and mongrel - you need the pace of Sinclair who is improving his kicking and you need the strong intercept marking of Oxley and Reid. It takes a mix and it is really overly simplistic to base a defence around the rebound component only.

[neil]

Williams was shocking when he kicked short was acceptable when he went long.
Scharenberg was recruited to help rectify the kicking problems

The problem is twofold excellent kicks get put forward or the midfied and success has meant few high end picks.

[thompsoc]

Said it before and I will say it again.
Who is the best or one of the best kicking sides???
Hawthorn of course.
And why is this so?
It is because they chose to recruit only players who could kick.
Over 10 or so years you get a side who is elite in this department.
Hine doesn't rate kicking as importantly as the Hawks.
Who is ahead .....not us.
Looking forward to the annual collingwood zone defence against the hawks
later this year.
Like a knife through warm butter the hawks will slice, dice and spit us out with their kicking skills.

[Pies4shaw]

Saying it repeatedly doesn't make it so, thompsoc. You are right but only to a limited extent. Hawthorn are ahead of Collingwood mostly because they have three genuinely outstanding footballers who are also exquisite users of the ball but who should have been in a nursing-home by about 2012 but have continued to play astonishingly good football long past their use-by dates, namely Hodge, Mitchell and Burgoyne. Take those 80 to 100 disposals out of Hawthorn's stats per game and they'll be right back to the field. A little bit of luck with your stars' longevity goes a long way.

As I watch the "GF replay", I see Mitchell get the first clearance and Burgoyne still taking the kick-ins. Hodge, of course, won't be there. No doubt they have another great kick playing in Hodge's place but will that person be a Hodge or just a "great kick" who gets 3 disposals a quarter?

Time will tell.

[thompsoc]

Hawthorn have stated in public that they mainly recruit good kicks.
Hine has stated on the record that he goes for the best player left in the draft.
Whether they are good kicks or not.

[Pies4shaw]

I'm not really disagreeing with your point about recruiting strategies. I'm suggesting that having some out and guns who all also happen to be brilliant kicks makes a lot of very average footballers look a lot better than they probably are.

I'm watching the Grand Final replay. At quarter time, Hawthorn leads 28 to 2. There have been some good kicks, certainly (including a very nice goal by Sicily, whom I recall you rate from your posts last year) but mostly, they've physically monstered West Coast. It certainly looks like a thrashing in the making. There will probably be some pinpoint passing along the way but the Hawks look like they'll win it because they're too big, too strong, too determined and want the ball way more than West Coast do. That might just be perception, of course - but early on it seemed to be a physical contest that Hawthorn just won in a canter.

Mitchell 14 disposals and 5 clearances, so far, by the way. Team disposals 131 to 62 at quarter-time.

[thompsoc]

Yes Pie4shaw good memory re Sicily.
Hawks picked him up for pick 56.
We picked up Tom Langdon next for pick 65.
Both good players but one is a great kick and the other is ordinary.
Which one did we get?

[What'sinaname]

[Pies4shaw]

[HAL]

The last one, I think.

[thompsoc]