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Tezza23
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
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While I agree with the sentiments on this board about the analysis of the article there are some glaring facts which have been conveniently overlooked by the pro-Buckley brigade.
The fact is Collingwood regularly - and this is not just limited to the first four rounds of 2016 as some pro-Buckleyists want to confine their rants to - fielded sides with sub AFL standard kicking skills. Buckley inherited plenty of guys who also couldn't kick so its not just his fault. By the fact remains he keeps bring in guys who fail at kicking.
At the 2014 members forum someone asked Buckley about our pathetic kicking. His response was something along the lines of "You'd laugh if it wasn't so serious" However I have seen no evidence of him trying to change this aspect of the list. In fact at the 2014 draft we selected Matthew Goodyear with our last pick. The club bio on him said that he need to work on his kicking. So much for any continuous improvement !!!
Until Buckley realises that the game is called FOOTBALL and tells Hine to draft accordingly we will sit at the bottom of the ladder. In our wisdom we have sold our first round draft picks so done expect any improvement in the next couple of seasons.
OH I forgot - Even though we haven't played or looked like playing finals for three years it is only round 4 of 2016 so we can keep talking up our chances for this year. Now where are my rose coloured glasses.
This will simply not go away with a bit of confidence. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| derkd wrote: | | I liked the article, facts are facts the club and playing lists are in a deep hole currently. We are fives years into a rebuild that unless we see a drastic change in form will be in 2016 in about the same place we have been the past two years. Get angry at the messenger if you wish Lazza. But the reality is we are: as a club, about where we deserve to be right now. |
No I don't get angry at the messenger, frustrated most times but I save my anger for far worthier recipients.
I also don’t happen to value or respect the vast majority of current Footy journos, as with me respect is something one earns, not demands. The ones like Glen McFarlane who are truly brilliant footy journos are now few and far between and we have try hards and bloody idiots like Robbo, Caroline Wilson, Patrick Smith etc etc. I can REALLY tell you a few stories about Robbo from his Bendigo Advertiser years but I won't even bother because I will be again accused of shooting the messenger or some crap like that.. 
| derkd wrote: | | It is going to take allot of hard work and probably some big decisions at seasons end to get us going forward again. It is not impossible for us to improve this year...But we are very unlikely now to hit the heights the media/club and fans were crowing about just a few months ago. |
I agree that most fans were doing that and during every pre season, logic goes out the window when predicting biased bloody results based purely on utter hope. Some of us said that it will be a developing year aimed towards sustained success from 2017 onwards but were as usual howled down. That's life on Nick's. 
As for the media, it is mainly pure guesswork no better than you and I can do.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Tezza23 wrote: | While I agree with the sentiments on this board about the analysis of the article there are some glaring facts which have been conveniently overlooked by the pro-Buckley brigade.
The fact is Collingwood regularly - and this is not just limited to the first four rounds of 2016 as some pro-Buckleyists want to confine their rants to - fielded sides with sub AFL standard kicking skills. Buckley inherited plenty of guys who also couldn't kick so its not just his fault. By the fact remains he keeps bring in guys who fail at kicking.
At the 2014 members forum someone asked Buckley about our pathetic kicking. His response was something along the lines of "You'd laugh if it wasn't so serious" However I have seen no evidence of him trying to change this aspect of the list. In fact at the 2014 draft we selected Matthew Goodyear with our last pick. The club bio on him said that he need to work on his kicking. So much for any continuous improvement !!!
Until Buckley realises that the game is called FOOTBALL and tells Hine to draft accordingly we will sit at the bottom of the ladder. In our wisdom we have sold our first round draft picks so done expect any improvement in the next couple of seasons.
OH I forgot - Even though we haven't played or looked like playing finals for three years it is only round 4 of 2016 so we can keep talking up our chances for this year. Now where are my rose coloured glasses.
This will simply not go away with a bit of confidence. |
Hmmmm, so making a reasoned reply is now considered a rant. Well there you go!
And if you actually took the time to read those "rants" you'd notice that most posters actually acknowledge the fact are disposal skills are down and then go on to make rational contributions to the discussion such as highlighting factors that contribute to that, and that we just need to accept that not every player will become an elite user of the footy, and that if we at least allow our kids time to develop we may well see an overall improvement in our skills...
None of which requires the sacking of the coach midseason or the wholesale delisting of the players in the squad.
But don't let that stop the anti-Buckley repetitive, boring, and often baseless dribble that always culminates in "sack Buckley" |
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derkd
Joined: 29 May 2013
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| Lazza wrote: | | derkd wrote: | | I liked the article, facts are facts the club and playing lists are in a deep hole currently. We are fives years into a rebuild that unless we see a drastic change in form will be in 2016 in about the same place we have been the past two years. Get angry at the messenger if you wish Lazza. But the reality is we are: as a club, about where we deserve to be right now. |
No I don't get angry at the messenger, frustrated most times but I save my anger for far worthier recipients.
I also don’t happen to value or respect the vast majority of current Footy journos, as with me respect is something one earns, not demands. The ones like Glen McFarlane who are truly brilliant footy journos are now few and far between and we have try hards and bloody idiots like Robbo, Caroline Wilson, Patrick Smith etc etc. I can REALLY tell you a few stories about Robbo from his Bendigo Advertiser years but I won't even bother because I will be again accused of shooting the messenger or some crap like that..
| derkd wrote: | | It is going to take allot of hard work and probably some big decisions at seasons end to get us going forward again. It is not impossible for us to improve this year...But we are very unlikely now to hit the heights the media/club and fans were crowing about just a few months ago. |
I agree that most fans were doing that and during every pre season, logic goes out the window when predicting biased bloody results based purely on utter hope. Some of us said that it will be a developing year aimed towards sustained success from 2017 onwards but were as usual howled down. That's life on Nick's.
As for the media, it is mainly pure guesswork no better than you and I can do. |
One could argue these journalists represent more shock-jock then true journalism. The problem is the more time people spend getting outraged at their comments simply keeps them in a job as it represents sales/site visits
I feel i need to add that i for one am still not calling 2016 finished, as i stated back in the 2016 prediction vault. Make the eight and i will call this year a step forward. I am not sure where you sit in this regard Lazza (you seems a fairly rational chap). But at some point this year we have to start to see forward (upward ladder) movement or we risk slipping back to the heady Shaw-esk days. That is to say treading water round the bottom of the ladder.
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"To know nothing of events before your birth, is to forever remain a child" - Cicero (Roman Lawyer/Senator) 46 BCE. |
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Tezza23
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
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Jackcass
Don't take it personally, its just that the problems that Collingwood face have been evident for some years not just 2016, and nothing seems to be improving. A lot of posters are only referring to our issues being a product of 2016.
I never said that Buckley should be sacked mid season ? You would know that if you had actually read my rant. I firmly believe that if the side continues to play as it has for the last 3 seasons that he should go at the end of the year. I doubt Eddie will make the call because it reflects as much on him as it would on Buckley.
most posters actually acknowledge the fact are disposal skills are down
Too many of our listed player are below AFL standard and will continue to be. This is the list that Buckley created. so what has he actually down to improve this aspect over his tenure as coach.
You state that the kids should be allowed to develop. This was said at the end of 2013, 2014, 2015, and now 2016. Repetitive perhaps ?
To paraphrase Einstein "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result." [/quote] |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Tezza23 wrote: | Jackcass
Don't take it personally, its just that the problems that Collingwood face have been evident for some years not just 2016, and nothing seems to be improving. A lot of posters are only referring to our issues being a product of 2016.
I never said that Buckley should be sacked mid season ? You would know that if you had actually read my rant. I firmly believe that if the side continues to play as it has for the last 3 seasons that he should go at the end of the year. I doubt Eddie will make the call because it reflects as much on him as it would on Buckley.
most posters actually acknowledge the fact are disposal skills are down
Too many of our listed player are below AFL standard and I think will continue to be. This is the list that Buckley created. so what has he actually down to improve this aspect over his tenure as coach.
You state that the kids should be allowed to develop. This was said at the end of 2013, 2014, 2015, and now 2016. Repetitive perhaps ?
To paraphrase Einstein "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result." |
[/quote]
EFA. Please refrain from stating opinion as if based in fact
Not taking anything personally.
And remains valid, look at the age profile of our team. If anything it's become more relevant over those years as we've lost senior players. Players don't automatically become seasoned veterans just because a few posters on a footy forum lack the patience to allow their development. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| derkd wrote: | | One could argue these journalists represent more shock-jock then true journalism. The problem is the more time people spend getting outraged at their comments simply keeps them in a job as it represents sales/site visits. |
True, totally agree on this. That is why I never refer to them as genuine journos, just bloody terrible hacks.
| derkd wrote: | | I feel i need to add that i for one am still not calling 2016 finished, as i stated back in the 2016 prediction vault. Make the eight and i will call this year a step forward. I am not sure where you sit in this regard Lazza (you seems a fairly rational chap). But at some point this year we have to start to see forward (upward ladder) movement or we risk slipping back to the heady Shaw-esk days. That is to say treading water round the bottom of the ladder. |
Again agree. I'm no expert on guesswork or speculation (never have been!) however I stated pre-season that Collingwood would finish somewhere between 6 and 12. I have no reason to withdraw that prediction at this stage. Like Jackcass and others have posted, we are only 4 rounds into a very long season and a week is a long time in football. And as a few of us have observed, the main problem on this forum is a distinct lack of patience, and wanting almost immediate success because we got 3 new recruits! FMD, it doesn’t work like that! It takes time to settle into a new team, gel with your new team mates, become comfortable in new surroundings, work out the how the new environment works etc etc. How many people have commenced a brand new job at a different workplace and immediately felt fully comfortable and had the instant ability to undertake each and every task requested of them and do them perfectly? Would the "perceptive fellow", who expect this very thing from our new recruits and younger players, be able to do this? Wow, they must be from another planet and this validates my exact thinking about them!  
Life, work and even football doesn't ever work like that but try telling that to the "perceptive fellow"......
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Lazza tend to agree. I was bullish about our chances preseason and said a finish anywhere from 6-8 would be a fantastic result but we were more likely to be 8-12
I said if we had no major injuries to key players and and new players performed at there best we might push 5th-6th
No Swan no Elliott no Ramsay no Scharenberg no Williams Pendles playing hurt Cloke no form or confidence Varcoe 1 game Sidey 2 games Langdon off form first 2 games Adams Crisp DeGoey Greenwood all struggling Reid playing his first few games with little to no off season again.
Really we shouldn't be surprised to be 1-3 but I like everyone else have been critical of our efforts and disposal there not up to afl standard.
I too think that is about the mark we will be at. Win Monday and depending on other result we could be anywhere from 10th-14th depending on %
Last the first term last week we were down by 30 lost by 35 so we basically were square for 3 terms it was just we were so horrible early
Losing Elliott I think has been a huge impact on us same as Swanny. Varcoe will be better for th run last week like Sidey
Alls not lost we can still achieve many things this season and a finish in or around the top 8 isn't unachievable just need to hit our straps |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | Lazza tend to agree. I was bullish about our chances preseason and said a finish anywhere from 6-8 would be a fantastic result but we were more likely to be 8-12
I said if we had no major injuries to key players and and new players performed at there best we might push 5th-6th
No Swan no Elliott no Ramsay no Scharenberg no Williams Pendles playing hurt Cloke no form or confidence Varcoe 1 game Sidey 2 games Langdon off form first 2 games Adams Crisp DeGoey Greenwood all struggling Reid playing his first few games with little to no off season again.
Really we shouldn't be surprised to be 1-3 but I like everyone else have been critical of our efforts and disposal there not up to afl standard.
I too think that is about the mark we will be at. Win Monday and depending on other result we could be anywhere from 10th-14th depending on %
Last the first term last week we were down by 30 lost by 35 so we basically were square for 3 terms it was just we were so horrible early
Losing Elliott I think has been a huge impact on us same as Swanny. Varcoe will be better for th run last week like Sidey
Alls not lost we can still achieve many things this season and a finish in or around the top 8 isn't unachievable just need to hit our straps |
Exactly qldmagpie67. Whether I agree or disagree, I love logically analysed posts such as yours on various issues.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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