Why we are in a mess
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Skids wrote: | The injury toll is the precise reason we're where we're at.
Taylor Adams Knee Test
Tim Broomhead Ankle 3-4 weeks
Nathan Brown Hamstring Test
Travis Cloke Back Test
Jamie Elliott Back 4-6 weeks
Corey Gault Concussion Test
Tyson Goldsack Fractured thumb 1-2 weeks
Tom Langdon Ankle 1-2 weeks
Jackson Ramsay Knee Season
Ben Reid Shoulder Test
Matt Scharenberg* Knee Season
Ben Sinclair Concussion Test
Dane Swan* Broken leg/foot Season
Travis Varcoe Hamstring Test
Marley Williams Mid-foot strain Test
More than half of that list are walk up starts in most teams first 22.
A side simply can't perform with that many of the core group in the stands. |
Agreed.
I understand the coaching staff are reluctant to use injuries as an reason for our performance, lest they give the current players an out, but only an idiot (or a troll) could look at our injuries and think they're not a large part of our problem.
And it's more than the last three years. It started in 2012 when we lost Krak, McCaffer, Keefe and Luke Ball to knee injuries, Ben Johnson and Marley Williams to shoulder reconstructions and had problems at various stages with Thomas, Jolly, Brown, Tarrant, Didak, Swan and Reid.
So, that's 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2016 officially recognised as horrendous injury runs, and I'm pretty sure 2013 was a disaster too. I recall Jolly and Thomas hardly playing for a start.
Obviously that raises the issue of injury management and I think the club has tried to address that, however so many of our worst injuries are collision or trauma injuries, like Swan and all the players with f^&*ing knee injuries.
It's been unbelievable. Take away a slab of your expected regular players and it's inescapable that you will perform accordingly.
People expect it with Essendon for instance, 'Oh the Bombers will be crap, because a lot of their senior players are missing'. However the same people choose to ignore a situation that is similar, in its effect, at Collingwood.
Leigh Matthews said recently that all you have to do is look at how many players we've used and you could predict our ladder position from that stat alone. A telling point.
Is Buckley a great, or even good, coach? I don't know and I agree with Rudeboy, I don't think anyone posting here does.
The injuries are a big part of why I think we'd be foolish to overreact. No coach can be successful with half their side unavailable. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Redlight wrote: | | Skids wrote: | The injury toll is the precise reason we're where we're at.
Taylor Adams Knee Test
Tim Broomhead Ankle 3-4 weeks
Nathan Brown Hamstring Test
Travis Cloke Back Test
Jamie Elliott Back 4-6 weeks
Corey Gault Concussion Test
Tyson Goldsack Fractured thumb 1-2 weeks
Tom Langdon Ankle 1-2 weeks
Jackson Ramsay Knee Season
Ben Reid Shoulder Test
Matt Scharenberg* Knee Season
Ben Sinclair Concussion Test
Dane Swan* Broken leg/foot Season
Travis Varcoe Hamstring Test
Marley Williams Mid-foot strain Test
More than half of that list are walk up starts in most teams first 22.
A side simply can't perform with that many of the core group in the stands. |
Agreed.
I understand the coaching staff are reluctant to use injuries as an reason for our performance, lest they give the current players an out, but only an idiot (or a troll) could look at our injuries and think they're not a large part of our problem.
And it's more than the last three years. It started in 2012 when we lost Krak, McCaffer, Keefe and Luke Ball to knee injuries, Ben Johnson and Marley Williams to shoulder reconstructions and had problems at various stages with Thomas, Jolly, Brown, Tarrant, Didak, Swan and Reid.
So, that's 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2016 officially recognised as horrendous injury runs, and I'm pretty sure 2013 was a disaster too. I recall Jolly and Thomas hardly playing for a start.
Obviously that raises the issue of injury management and I think the club has tried to address that, however so many of our worst injuries are collision or trauma injuries, like Swan and all the players with f^&*ing knee injuries.
It's been unbelievable. Take away a slab of your expected regular players and it's inescapable that you will perform accordingly.
People expect it with Essendon for instance, 'Oh the Bombers will be crap, because a lot of their senior players are missing'. However the same people choose to ignore a situation that is similar, in its effect, at Collingwood.
Leigh Matthews said recently that all you have to do is look at how many players we've used and you could predict our ladder position from that stat alone. A telling point.
Is Buckley a great, or even good, coach? I don't know and I agree with Rudeboy, I don't think anyone posting here does.
The injuries are a big part of why I think we'd be foolish to overreact. No coach can be successful with half their side unavailable. |
Well said. |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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another excuse thread really
even Bucks said he will be judged on wins and losses
how many pathetic excuse threads do u guys post per week |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Redlight wrote: | .
People expect it with Essendon for instance, 'Oh the Bombers will be crap, because a lot of their senior players are missing'. However the same people choose to ignore a situation that is similar, in its effect, at Collingwood.
Leigh Matthews said recently that all you have to do is look at how many players we've used and you could predict our ladder position from that stat alone. A telling point.
Is Buckley a great, or even good, coach? I don't know and I agree with Rudeboy, I don't think anyone posting here does.
The injuries are a big part of why I think we'd be foolish to overreact. No coach can be successful with half their side unavailable. |
Well said IMHO. |
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CarringbushCigar
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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| You lost me at Round 1 - when apparently it was Robbos fault. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Redlight wrote: | Agreed.
I understand the coaching staff are reluctant to use injuries as an reason for our performance, lest they give the current players an out, but only an idiot (or a troll) could look at our injuries and think they're not a large part of our problem.
And it's more than the last three years. It started in 2012 when we lost Krak, McCaffer, Keefe and Luke Ball to knee injuries, Ben Johnson and Marley Williams to shoulder reconstructions and had problems at various stages with Thomas, Jolly, Brown, Tarrant, Didak, Swan and Reid.
So, that's 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2016 officially recognised as horrendous injury runs, and I'm pretty sure 2013 was a disaster too. I recall Jolly and Thomas hardly playing for a start.
Obviously that raises the issue of injury management and I think the club has tried to address that, however so many of our worst injuries are collision or trauma injuries, like Swan and all the players with f^&*ing knee injuries.
It's been unbelievable. Take away a slab of your expected regular players and it's inescapable that you will perform accordingly.
People expect it with Essendon for instance, 'Oh the Bombers will be crap, because a lot of their senior players are missing'. However the same people choose to ignore a situation that is similar, in its effect, at Collingwood.
Leigh Matthews said recently that all you have to do is look at how many players we've used and you could predict our ladder position from that stat alone. A telling point.
Is Buckley a great, or even good, coach? I don't know and I agree with Rudeboy, I don't think anyone posting here does.
The injuries are a big part of why I think we'd be foolish to overreact. No coach can be successful with half their side unavailable. |
Really delightful post - for the Side by Side brigade.
Will be inevitably flamed by the "perceptive fellow"...... :roll
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Jez07 wrote: | Injury is not a valid excuse.
Football is now a systems based process.
Park the wins and losses to the side.
In 3 years we haven't seen a sustainable and clear system of play employed by the coach.
You can have injuries but at the same time you can see a clear, concise and unique brand of football and system of play.
This hasn't been in evidence for years. |
Jez your mixing 2 fronts. Firstly you say injuries aren't an excuse. Then you say it's our game plan style
No one is saying we have the right game plan or style but you can't be fair minded and say injury hasn't impacted our club that's just stupid mate.
If I took
Hodge
Mitchell
Roughead
Gibson
Lewis
Rioli
Breust
Ceglar
Frawley
From the Hawks side for long periods at a time with multiple of them (meaning 5 or 6 at a time) how many flags would they have won the last 3yrs ?
Because that's the issue. You can take a couple maybe 4 at the absolute most and still be competitive. But take up to 7 or 8 players and your toast no matter which club it is.
Chris Scott mentioned a couple weeks ago on 360 he would hope to use only around 32-34 for the year. 7 rounds in we've used 36 and likely to use at least 2 or 3 more first gamers before the season ends
JW makes a good point in the past 3yrs name 3 consecutive games we have gone into with our best 22 or at least 20 of our best 22 ?
There is a thing called cohesion and experince that play a huge role in all facets of the game.
Mate don't be so blind sighted by your hate on Buckley to forget not everything is he's fault |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| And then what will happen? |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| CarringbushCigar wrote: | another excuse thread really
even Bucks said he will be judged on wins and losses
how many pathetic excuse threads do u guys post per week |
Of course it's an excuse. But, unlike your opinion of it as a pathetic one, I believe it's valid.
7 of our top 10 fairest & best plus our leading goalkicker out of the side and you call that a pathetic excuse 
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Jez07 wrote: | Injury is not a valid excuse.
Football is now a systems based process.
Park the wins and losses to the side.
In 3 years we haven't seen a sustainable and clear system of play employed by the coach.
You can have injuries but at the same time you can see a clear, concise and unique brand of football and system of play.
This hasn't been in evidence for years. |
Jez your mixing 2 fronts. Firstly you say injuries aren't an excuse. Then you say it's our game plan style
No one is saying we have the right game plan or style but you can't be fair minded and say injury hasn't impacted our club that's just stupid mate.
If I took
Hodge
Mitchell
Roughead
Gibson
Lewis
Rioli
Breust
Ceglar
Frawley
From the Hawks side for long periods at a time with multiple of them (meaning 5 or 6 at a time) how many flags would they have won the last 3yrs ?
Because that's the issue. You can take a couple maybe 4 at the absolute most and still be competitive. But take up to 7 or 8 players and your toast no matter which club it is.
Chris Scott mentioned a couple weeks ago on 360 he would hope to use only around 32-34 for the year. 7 rounds in we've used 36 and likely to use at least 2 or 3 more first gamers before the season ends
JW makes a good point in the past 3yrs name 3 consecutive games we have gone into with our best 22 or at least 20 of our best 22 ?
There is a thing called cohesion and experince that play a huge role in all facets of the game.
Mate don't be so blind sighted by your hate on Buckley to forget not everything is he's fault |
You easily win the Nick's gold medal for trying to talk logic and sense into this particular newbie. I'm in awe of you "qldmagpie67", such great posting.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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Hawthorn had Roughead, Hodge, Mitchell (their 3 best players), Hale (their 1st ruck in the GF), Lake (their FB), Frawley (their CHB) & Suckling missing from the GF side on Friday night.
That didn't stop them from putting on 120 points plus and playing with a coherent system.
Best 22 is a myth in football. It never happens. Stop using it as an excuse.
Last edited by Jez07 on Wed May 11, 2016 1:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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For the Carlton game, who was out injured:
Taylor Adams
Tim Broomhead - fringe
Nathan Brown - omitted
Travis Cloke - omitted
Jamie Elliott
Corey Gault - fringe
Tyson Goldsack - probably fringe these days
Tom Langdon
Jackson Ramsay - fringe
Ben Reid - played
Matt Scharenberg - unproven/fringe
Ben Sinclair - fringe
Dane Swan
Travis Varcoe
Marley Williams
So really only missing Adams, Elliot, Langdon, Swan, Varcoe, Williams.
But injuries are our excuse for not beating Carlton???? Please. |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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No doubt injuries have played a massive part during Buckley's tenure… so what are we doing about it?
I read somewhere about the roos with their dad's army were totally focused on injury prevention and doing special training to keep em going for longer through games and the year…
Every teams gets injuries - but they all have to manage them and then overall review what the training program entails and what might need to change - it might even be the type of players we recruit who knows - but what are we doing about it? surely it is not just a useful fall back or excuse when the team performs poorly year after year!
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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Best 22 is a myth in football.
Park the injuries to the side.
How many players who aren't injured have improved this year?
That falls onto the coach. |
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CarringbushCigar
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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He played 3 senior players in the reserves FFS
Half of the changes to the side have been based on form.
Sure we have had injuries and they have contributed to us not being a top-4 side, but how the hell do u justify Round 1?
How do u justify the players 'picking and choosing' last week.
This is Buck's list, it's Bucks staff, and even Bucks said judge me on wins and losses.
It's my strong opinion that those who are belting out these excuses are going against Buck's express wishes, and not helping anyone.
Hawthorn HAVE had their share of injuries this year and other years.
The Bulldogs back line is also full of no names yet somehow they keep playing exciting footy and winning.
They don't appear to need time to gel.
It's impossible to prove but in my mind no doubt that a lot of our injuries over the last 3 years are about players not enjoying their footy.
I believe Bucks when he reminds us that our best is still good enough.
West Coast Q2 and Q3 is clear evidence.
All this injury talk is for Losers !! |
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