Sack Buckley
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AnthonyC 
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: |
Well you could say Buckley will forever be remembered as Collingwood captain and Norm Smith medallist, certainly a media expert. And certainly not as a coach.
Lets look at Tony Shaw's coaching record. 1996 and 1997 improved the win loss record and bettered Matthews 1995. Wheels fell off in 98 and 99. List got worse and worse. Young players from good drafts came in but Eddie brought Malthouse in to mould a new era.
Bucks has never bettered the previous coaches record in any season. I say for 2012 and 13 it was still the old coaches team. So I would suggest Buck's coaching era really started in 2014. Young players came in from good drafts but he is yet to maximise their potential...
Shaw
1996 - 9 W 13 L
1997 - 10 W 12 L
1998 - 7 W 15 L
Bucks
2014 - 11 W 11 L
2015 - 10 W 12 L
2016 - 3 W 5 L (with 6 winnable games left for the year)
I see a pattern forming |
Ahh no. So MM was our previous coach, and in:
2000: 7W, 15L
2001: 11W, 11L
2004: 8W, 14L
2005: 5W, 17L
So Buckley's 2014 season equals or beats at least four of MM's. And of course in 2012/13 that claim falls over and lands flat on it's face.
That is just total crap to claim that 2012/13 are MM's. I'm sorry so by that argument Buckley has only coached 2 full seasons so far and people want to get rid of him already!!??
Find another argument, one that has some facts.
P.S. There are 14 winnable games left this season, FACT. Oh, In your OPINION we can only win 6, that's different.
I get you are critical of some aspects and I don't blame you, but at least base it on the truth.
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Go Pies! |
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Mossi 
Joined: 20 May 2002
Location: Vittorio Veneto TV Italy
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[quote="BucksIsFutureCoach"] | jackcass wrote: | | Culprit wrote: | | Tony Shaw is on the money when he stated, Injuries are saving Buckley. |
So let's say that we would have won against St Kilda and the Melbourne and Carlton games are 50:50's, then we would be going into the Geelong game standing at five and three. . |
Not trying to be pull you up on your maths but our if we would have won those games our situation would be 6 and 2 which would look even better. Loosing three of our best contesting players in Swan Ramsay and with the out of form Cloke injured Pendle and our runners in Varcoe and Williams makes a big difference to our side. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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People keep harping on about 2010 as if it's relevant to today's team.
At nearly 25 ave age that team had a young Beams, Sidebootom, Reid, Blair, McCaffer, Brown, Thomas. Pendles was 6yrs younger as too was Swanny
We also had a strong core of experienced players of more than 150 games who were able to assist the younger players.
Now we have Cloke who's out of form and playing seconds, Swanny who's injured, Brown out injured, Pendles playing busted, Varcoe been out as much as in this year & Sidebottom who missed 2 games suspended.
We don't have that experienced core anymore
You can say we got rid of them to early or whatever but it still won't change the fact we are very young across all lines and lack experience and leadership.
Injuries are a different topic
Anyone who is being fair has to admit injuries have played a part in our poor season. That isn't a excuse it's a fact.
Would this side be better if Cloke was in form, Swanny wasn't injured, Brown wasn't injured, Scharenberg wasn't injured, Williams wasn't injured, Ramsay wasn't injured, Elliott wasn't injured Langdon wasn't injured, Gault wasn't injured, Broomhead wasn't injured the list just goes on and every week it's added to.
Have had no cohesion. We've used 36 players
Some stats raised by King on 360 last night
The last 6 grand finals have been contests between team who have used on average 32 players over the course of the season (includes Freo resting episode) a couple teams in that era used 29/30 players the entire year.
People need to be fair and reasonable in there assessments.
I'm still not sure he's the best bloke to coach is going forward but at the moment he's our coach and should have our support |
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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | duke750 wrote: | | Tony Shaw will be forever remembered as a Collngwood Premiership captain and Norm Smith medallist, certainly not as a media expert. And certainly not as a coach. |
Well you could say Buckley will forever be remembered as Collingwood captain and Norm Smith medallist, certainly a media expert. And certainly not as a coach.
Lets look at Tony Shaw's coaching record. 1996 and 1997 improved the win loss record and bettered Matthews 1995. Wheels fell off in 98 and 99. List got worse and worse. Young players from good drafts came in but Eddie brought Malthouse in to mould a new era.
Bucks has never bettered the previous coaches record in any season. I say for 2012 and 13 it was still the old coaches team. So I would suggest Buck's coaching era really started in 2014. Young players came in from good drafts but he is yet to maximise their potential...
Shaw
1996 - 9 W 13 L
1997 - 10 W 12 L
1998 - 7 W 15 L
Bucks
2014 - 11 W 11 L
2015 - 10 W 12 L
2016 - 3 W 5 L (with 6 winnable games left for the year)
I see a pattern forming |
He is still a coach and whilst remote there is still a chance that he might turns things around. The fat lady has not sung yet on Buckley's coaching career.
The injuries have had a major impact and to be fair these need to be taken into account.
_________________
Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| AnthonyC wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: |
Well you could say Buckley will forever be remembered as Collingwood captain and Norm Smith medallist, certainly a media expert. And certainly not as a coach.
Lets look at Tony Shaw's coaching record. 1996 and 1997 improved the win loss record and bettered Matthews 1995. Wheels fell off in 98 and 99. List got worse and worse. Young players from good drafts came in but Eddie brought Malthouse in to mould a new era.
Bucks has never bettered the previous coaches record in any season. I say for 2012 and 13 it was still the old coaches team. So I would suggest Buck's coaching era really started in 2014. Young players came in from good drafts but he is yet to maximise their potential...
Shaw
1996 - 9 W 13 L
1997 - 10 W 12 L
1998 - 7 W 15 L
Bucks
2014 - 11 W 11 L
2015 - 10 W 12 L
2016 - 3 W 5 L (with 6 winnable games left for the year)
I see a pattern forming |
Ahh no. So MM was our previous coach, and in:
2000: 7W, 15L
2001: 11W, 11L
2004: 8W, 14L
2005: 5W, 17L
So Buckley's 2014 season equals or beats at least four of MM's. And of course in 2012/13 that claim falls over and lands flat on it's face.
That is just total crap to claim that 2012/13 are MM's. I'm sorry so by that argument Buckley has only coached 2 full seasons so far and people want to get rid of him already!!??
Find another argument, one that has some facts.
P.S. There are 14 winnable games left this season, FACT. Oh, In your OPINION we can only win 6, that's different.
I get you are critical of some aspects and I don't blame you, but at least base it on the truth. |
I take your point my arguement was poorly worded and a little vague.
What I meant by the previous coach was their last season in charge. Cause you usually move a coach on when they are in the negitive for wins and loss ratio.
Matthews was 8 W 12 L and 2 D in 1995. So shaw improved the win loss over the next 2 seasons before it fell to pieces. And the same excuses could apply to shaw. Aging list. Injuries. Youth. Though Bucks has heaps more talent. Our list was pretty bad back then.
Malthouses last season in 2011 was 20 W 2 L. Has Bucks equalled or beaten that in his first 4 years? Shaw bettered Matthews in his first two.
Many people have said since we lost to Port in 2013 that it is finally "Buck's team". So to be fair I think its not unfair at all to compare shaw and bucks from the years they put there mark on the team, for shaw that was 1996. For Bucks it was really 2014. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| The Prototype wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | So Tony would have no inside word on the club at all? So its ok for posters to take pots shots at a premiership captain in Tony Shaw and no one is allowed to defend him? |
Where did I imply that it was okay to take pot shots at anyone, let alone him? Where also did I say no one was allowed to defend him? Or have I said he wasn't allowed an opinion?
I don't have any more idea on his connections to the inside workings to Collingwood then anyone else, he's entitled to an opinion he expressed it, I was stating that like him everyone can have an opinion but none are more right or wrong than the other it's just opinion.
The only people I've even come close to taking a pot shot at are those that have labeled both sides of the "Buckley"/"Anti-Buckley" debate.
I am sure Tony ha a lot of connections at the club, what they tell him or what he knows no one but he and they know. But again he's spoken his opinion he's entitled to it. It would be nice if people debated it without the pot shots, but that seems the norm.
People see an opinion they hate it so they attack the person, seems the norm which is pretty sad really. I guess we're all guilty of that in a way. |
Fair point. I understand where your coming from |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Mossi wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | Culprit wrote: | | Tony Shaw is on the money when he stated, Injuries are saving Buckley. |
So let's say that we would have won against St Kilda and the Melbourne and Carlton games are 50:50's, then we would be going into the Geelong game standing at five and three. . |
Not trying to be pull you up on your maths but our if we would have won those games our situation would be 6 and 2 which would look even better. Loosing three of our best contesting players in Swan Ramsay and with the out of form Cloke injured Pendle and our runners in Varcoe and Williams makes a big difference to our side. |
Your editing of quotes needs a bit of work... there, that's better |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Yawn and yawn again. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Mossi
Joined: 20 May 2002
Location: Vittorio Veneto TV Italy
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^  Thanks Jackcass I did botch it! |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ It also assumes that Tony Shaw is in a position to comment on the competency of anyone's coaching, a proposition that some may tend to doubt. |
Perhaps its takes one (an ex captain, norm smith medalist with a poor coaching record) to know one. I don't know what Tony said, but he is in a much better position to make informed comment on Collingwood issues than most, and certainly anyone on this forum. |
No we have Jez07. He knows more than Barrassi, jeans, Mchale and Lethal combined and just a smidge more than Norm Smith/ I hear that manchester United are after him.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| ronrat wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ It also assumes that Tony Shaw is in a position to comment on the competency of anyone's coaching, a proposition that some may tend to doubt. |
Perhaps its takes one (an ex captain, norm smith medalist with a poor coaching record) to know one. I don't know what Tony said, but he is in a much better position to make informed comment on Collingwood issues than most, and certainly anyone on this forum. |
No we have Jez07. He knows more than Barrassi, jeans, Mchale and Lethal combined and just a smidge more than Norm Smith/ I hear that manchester United are after him. |
In all seriousness, the things Jez07 has touched on seem pretty close to the pulse to me. He's relayed that a former player he has spoke to has significant concerns about the coaching staff. Regardless of whether he has spoken to said ex player, after the past 3 years who seriously doesn't have concerns about our coaching staff? Michael Christian hasn't been backward in coming forward on the Agenda after the WCE and Blues loss. Maxwell said as much. Shaw appears to have his doubts. Eddie publicly criticised the gameplan and thought about quitting after the blues loss.
Now I understand you might believe Jez07 is making up his conversation with ex player. That's fair. You, and I, don't know Jez07 at all. That's your call to make. But when what Jez07 relays from an ex player lines up with exactly the same issues I see week to week for at least 3 years then I'm more inclined to think that, even if the story is made up, Jez07 at the very least has a fair bit of insight and accute observation of what is actually happening on field and even behind the scenes.
Over the past 5 years you couldn't say our coaching staff have been great at the development of leadership skills within the playing group, improving on field communication, improving stoppage set up, improving defensive accountability, improving our ability to stop coast to coast goals from kick outs (1st qtr of the Lions game at least 5 of our 9 points were returned from the Lions kick out to at least lions HFF. The lions were so inept they kept turning it over with simple errors and we capitalised on the rebound. Those simple errors wont happen vs the Cats and I won't be suprised if its a friggin free for all for the Cats every time we kick a point tomorrow), stopping marks conceded inside defensive 50, the link between training loads and soft tissue injuries in 2014 (and the long term affects its cause some players) and yadda yadda yadda...
I may be a broken record, but its pretty obvious we don't have the no.1 or even top 5 coaching staff at our club anymore. I doubt we are in the top 10 to be honest.
Tony Shaw got rolled cause he wasn't perceived as a good coach, or at least there were better coaches available. Back then Eddie got one of the best coaches to replace Shaw. I have no problem in doing the same to Buckley. I have no resentment toward Eddie. I think the idea of the succession plan was a good one, but after 2010 they probably should have got bucks to keep on as assistant till 2013 or 2014. But we are now over 4 years from when Malthouse left the building. Times have changed. And I want the 1990's Eddie back on board.
Eddie made the call on Shaw and handled the transistion professionally. So I would say Bucks will at least coach out the year. But Eddie please please please go out into the market place, like you did in the 90's, and find us the best possible coach available to steer this ship in the right direction. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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The Dockers are 0/8 and Ross Lyon is under no pressure to hold his job. The Pies, dealing with a much deeper injury list, are 3/5 and apparently Bucks' needs to be replaced. This is pathetic.
Under the circumstances, Bucks has done a fantastic job making us competitive in every single game we've played, except for our opening game against the Swans, where the drugs saga sabotaged us. I am very confident that we will continue to improve throughout this season and be a genuine flag contender in 2017. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| The two aren't comparable, RB. Lyon has got his teams to three of the last 7 Grand Finals. Whatever the merits of the debate about Buckley may be, Lyon's position is irrelevant (unless, of course, he could be prised out of Freo, in which case Eddie would, no doubt, sign him in a heartbeat). |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Actually, on one view, it's 4 of the last 8, isn't it? |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| RudeBoy wrote: | The Dockers are 0/8 and Ross Lyon is under no pressure to hold his job. The Pies, dealing with a much deeper injury list, are 3/5 and apparently Bucks' needs to be replaced. This is pathetic.
Under the circumstances, Bucks has done a fantastic job making us competitive in every single game we've played, except for our opening game against the Swans, where the drugs saga sabotaged us. I am very confident that we will continue to improve throughout this season and be a genuine flag contender in 2017. |
Agree with you totally RB. 100% in fact.
However, people talk about the difference being the lollipops and non lollipops drivel and KM just hit the nail on the head about simplifying what the major issue is on Nick's. Some see the club as already having the best possible coach available to steer this ship in the right direction and indeed see us currently going in the right direction.
Others simply see us not at all in this situation stated above and NEVER the Twain shall meet on this even if we all post till the cows come home, the fat lady sings or JW indeed gets a brain.......   
It is simply not going to be ever resolved on Nick’s because it is actually about human nature, personalities and human frailty. It is merely an extension of what we are in real life on various issues, either being optimistic, pessimistic, realistic, patient, impatient, staying cool, getting hot under the collar, having road rage or staying calm under pressure, keeping our heads while everybody else loses theirs or being prone to panic etc. etc. We ARE all different human beings and see the very same situation with different eyes, views and opinions; however these are mostly not be based on facts.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine!
Last edited by Lazza on Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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