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3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Thanks Jezza.
I was just watching the news and yes, all indications are it was bomb, meaning it could have been anyone of a dozen groups, from the Muslum Brotherhood, Al Quada, Mosad or even the Symbionese Liberation Army.
Hell, it could even been Putin.
Last edited by 3.14159 on Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Morrigu wrote: | Sometimes - not often granted - but sometimes I think we are lulled into a false sense of security re the screening etc that occurs.
I give you example A Your Honour:
We not that long ago flew from Melb to Singapore, out of Singapore to KL , out of KL to Kuching , out of Kuching to Sandakan, out of Sandakan to KL.
When packing to fly back to Melbourne from KL I found a rather large knife in my carry on backpack ( I had taken it to MotoGP at the Island the week before to cut the tomatoes for our sandwiches) I had no idea it was in there and it had been in there the whole trip and had not been detected by any screening - and it had been through much screening - nearly bloody died when I realised   |
The yanks are full on. take off belt and shoes and completely empty pockets. I mean completely.
Then you stand up in some device with hands in the air while it scans your body. I got pulled up at LA because of a heat signature between my shoulders. I was sweating in the hot weather after walking nearly a km to get to the terminal. I missed a receipt from something in my jeans pocket and had to slowly turn the pocket inside out. Have a knife in your backpack going through a US airport would not end well.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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Just your belt and shoes - wanna try Rwanda - we had to take all that off , plus my necklace, my earrings, hubby's earring and our bloody socks off as well 4 yes 4 times - and the first was time was just to enter the airport!
Last trip to Arica we got heat screened for possible fever - EBOLA ALERT EBOLA ALERT - even though we were and had been nowhere remotely near an Ebola area😀
Singapore's a bit mental too which is why I was gob smacked the knife I didn't know I had made it through
If a knife can make it through strict carry on screening - you have to wonder how effective is the screening of checked baggage or cargo - makes you wonder!
Planting a bomb on a plane especially at some airports does not seem that far fetched to me - one lone wolf with an agenda and authority I can see that as possible!
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Ha, I now wear go walks with no socks on planes! If I think I'll get cold I take some bed socks in my bag. (Go walks are very comfy pull on shoes by sketcher), pants that don't need a belt, it's still worth it anyhow, just to go travelling!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| 3.14159 wrote: | Thanks Jezza.
I was just watching the news and yes, all indications are it was bomb, meaning it could have been anyone of a dozen groups, from the Muslum Brotherhood, Al Quada, Mosad or even the Symbionese Liberation Army. |
You could be right about the groups you've mentioned.
Here's an interesting article on Business Insider that alludes to the idea that ISIS has staged a major propaganda coup by claiming responsibility for the plane crash even though evidence may contradict this especially if more comes to light in the future.
| Quote: | 'ISIS already won this round': The Islamic State just staged a major propaganda coup
US and European intelligence sources said Wednesday that there is a strong possibility an ISIS affiliate based in Sinai placed a bomb on a Russian plane bound for St. Petersburg.
The new evidence linking ISIS to the crash, which killed all 224 people on board, has the international community buzzing over ISIS sudden transformation into a major global threat.
And even as the investigation into the crash continues the White House said Thursday it could not rule out the possibility of terrorist involvement ISIS has already accomplished a significant feat, regardless of what the fuller picture of evidence eventually presents as their overall role in the attack.
ISIS in a sense has already won the public back-and-forth because enough people suspect that ISIS may have done it, and for a group like ISIS the objective reality doesnt matter it is a propaganda war, Shadi Hamid, a researcher at the Brookings Institution who studies Islamist movements, told the New York Times on Thursday.
Objective truth of whether ISIS downed the Russian plane simply doesnt matter as much now, Hamid tweeted, after calling the groups claims of responsibility for the crash a propaganda coup in a previous tweet.
ISIS already won this round.
A briefing by The Soufan Group echoed this sentiment: Whether or not it was a bomb, and whether or not the Islamic State was responsible, the narrative is now set: the Sinai Province of the Islamic State. will now forever be regarded as having pulled off the largest mass casualty terrorist attack outside a conflict zone since 9/11. |
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/isis-propaganda-coup-russia-plane-2015-11
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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| Jezza wrote: |
You could be right about the groups you've mentioned.
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I was only joking when I mentioned the SLA
They were done and dusted long before you were a glint in your dad's eye.!  |
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Neil Appleby
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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| Wokko wrote: | As someone who is quite adamantly and vocally anti-Islamic I find this episode to be a bit bizarre. These are kids, so I doubt their motivations would be some kind of 'Middle Finger' to Australia, especially considering that most kids will go well out of their way to not appear 'different'. In fact these kids (or their parents) have respectfully informed the school that they can't sing for religious reasons during a specified timeframe. If they wanted to create a controversy they just would've refused to sing and not told anyone why until a media shitstorm like this came along, then out would come the 'religious freedom' tale (kind of like the Clock Kid in the USA).
I'm happy to go beyond even the benefit of the doubt here and side firmly with the Muslim kids and their families (based on the assumptions i've made about good faith and religious freedom). |
Respectfully disagree. There are plenty of schools with large muslim populations that would never even contemplate such a divisive move.
Before writing this, I checked with my brother and a friend, both of whom teach in a conservative muslim country. My brother teaches in a British curriculum international school owned by a muslim. 70-80% of the students are muslim and come from families considered amongst the ruling elite. My friend teaches in an all girls school which has a 100% muslim population. It is also muslim owned. Neither school makes any changes to their flag raising ceremonies regardless of religious ceremonies.
When I taught there, we had flag raising every morning at 7:15. The flag was raised and the national anthem was sung during Ramadan, Eid and any other religious occasions.
Sometimes some of my students would not attend during religious festivals, but if they did, they were expected to attend in the same way as all other students. This is precisely what should have happened at the Cranbourne primary school in question.
The school and its school council has created a shit storm despite the most noble of motives. It has created a division in its own community quite needlessly. Unfortunately, decisions such as these, and we see them all over the western world, made in the spirit of cultural tolerance, lead to division and intolerance. Not to mention playing into the hands of of muslim haters.
The school should have told the parents to bring students to school after assembly if the so-called joyous singing of an anthem was so against their religious values. Those parents though, do deserve some credit. They could have made the decision to send their kids to faith schools, where they would rarely get to hear an opposing view or opinion.
Thankfully, the vast majority of schools with muslim populations, did not deem it a fit and proper thing to allow students to be excluded from singing the national anthem. There must be thousands of primary schools who did not contemplate such a decision and we should all be thankful for this common sense prevailing. No doubt, the next school council meeting at the Cranbourne school will be a very interesting one. Although the Ministry has backed the school's decision, I'd be surprised if the school sticks with its present stance.
At least these kids, now well and truly seen as different even if they weren't before, get a chance to assimilate into our society and culture. Most of them will with an ounce of luck, come to see that tolerance and free speech are good things. They may even grow up to believe in the universality of human rights and secular, democratic values.
_________________
After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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OMG, is it such a big deal, though? Couldn't they have just stayed for the national anthem and not sung? Would anyone have even noticed?
I don't sing along to the national anthem during sporting events, and I'm pretty sure I haven't been the cause of mass social division and unrest (at least, not for that reason!).
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Neil Appleby
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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Yes exactly. I reckon only half the kids in any assembly I've ever attended sing the anthem. The rest just move their lips and stand mute; a bit like AFL footballers! In Australia this was never an issue. Only in Kuwait was there ever a directive that all children must sing. The senior master patrolled to make sure this happened. It was a British International School after all. You think Advance Australia Fair is awful? Have a listen to Kuwait's. Mercifully, it's very short.
The school and the muslim parents contributed to an unnecessary shit storm here. This hasn't been an issue in any other Victorian school as far as I'm aware.
_________________
After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| 3.14159 wrote: | | Jezza wrote: |
You could be right about the groups you've mentioned.
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I was only joking when I mentioned the SLA
They were done and dusted long before you were a glint in your dad's eye.! |
I focused my attention primarily on the Muslim Brotherhood and Al-Qaeda hence the response I generated 
_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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KenH
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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Yep, that was a good read!
_________________
Cheers big ears |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | As someone who is quite adamantly and vocally anti-Islamic I find this episode to be a bit bizarre. These are kids, so I doubt their motivations would be some kind of 'Middle Finger' to Australia, especially considering that most kids will go well out of their way to not appear 'different'. In fact these kids (or their parents) have respectfully informed the school that they can't sing for religious reasons during a specified timeframe. If they wanted to create a controversy they just would've refused to sing and not told anyone why until a media shitstorm like this came along, then out would come the 'religious freedom' tale (kind of like the Clock Kid in the USA).
I'm happy to go beyond even the benefit of the doubt here and side firmly with the Muslim kids and their families (based on the assumptions i've made about good faith and religious freedom). |
Respectfully disagree. There are plenty of schools with large muslim populations that would never even contemplate such a divisive move.
Before writing this, I checked with my brother and a friend, both of whom teach in a conservative muslim country. My brother teaches in a British curriculum international school owned by a muslim. 70-80% of the students are muslim and come from families considered amongst the ruling elite. My friend teaches in an all girls school which has a 100% muslim population. It is also muslim owned. Neither school makes any changes to their flag raising ceremonies regardless of religious ceremonies.
When I taught there, we had flag raising every morning at 7:15. The flag was raised and the national anthem was sung during Ramadan, Eid and any other religious occasions.
Sometimes some of my students would not attend during religious festivals, but if they did, they were expected to attend in the same way as all other students. This is precisely what should have happened at the Cranbourne primary school in question.
The school and its school council has created a shit storm despite the most noble of motives. It has created a division in its own community quite needlessly. Unfortunately, decisions such as these, and we see them all over the western world, made in the spirit of cultural tolerance, lead to division and intolerance. Not to mention playing into the hands of of muslim haters.
The school should have told the parents to bring students to school after assembly if the so-called joyous singing of an anthem was so against their religious values. Those parents though, do deserve some credit. They could have made the decision to send their kids to faith schools, where they would rarely get to hear an opposing view or opinion.
Thankfully, the vast majority of schools with muslim populations, did not deem it a fit and proper thing to allow students to be excluded from singing the national anthem. There must be thousands of primary schools who did not contemplate such a decision and we should all be thankful for this common sense prevailing. No doubt, the next school council meeting at the Cranbourne school will be a very interesting one. Although the Ministry has backed the school's decision, I'd be surprised if the school sticks with its present stance.
At least these kids, now well and truly seen as different even if they weren't before, get a chance to assimilate into our society and culture. Most of them will with an ounce of luck, come to see that tolerance and free speech are good things. They may even grow up to believe in the universality of human rights and secular, democratic values. |
I agree with Stui, brilliant post
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | OMG, is it such a big deal, though? Couldn't they have just stayed for the national anthem and not sung? Would anyone have even noticed?
I don't sing along to the national anthem during sporting events, and I'm pretty sure I haven't been the cause of mass social division and unrest (at least, not for that reason!). |
Yes it is a big deal. Just because you have obviously been brought up to believe you can do what ever the hell you want when ever the hell you want, thumb your nose at tradition and have absolutely no appreciation for how damn lucky you are to live in a country where if you do choose to be a bad mannered unappreciative disrespectful tool, you won't get shot for it. Conscription would do you the world of good! You don't want to conform, ok, about time then you said no to all the assistance this great country gives you.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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