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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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Simplistic BUT if the majority really trusted the LNP and really wanted them to have a mandate (has ever a construct been so inappropriately used!!) to implement their policies including abolishing the carbon tax THEN they would have voted for them in the Senate to give them the power required.
They didn't - so there is no "mandate" - the ALP, the Greens and all those voted in ( despite the nonsense of really small voter numbers) have every right - no an obligation to honour the committments they made to those who voted for them!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Who, specifically? |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Morrigu wrote: | Simplistic BUT if the majority really trusted the LNP and really wanted them to have a mandate (has ever a construct been so inappropriately used!!) to implement their policies including abolishing the carbon tax THEN they would have voted for them in the Senate to give them the power required.
They didn't - so there is no "mandate" - the ALP, the Greens and all those voted in ( despite the nonsense of really small voter numbers) have every right - no an obligation to honour the committments they made to those who voted for them! |
Yep. It seems pretty elementary.
Just another primary school trick by Abbott and co.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Interesting opinion piece in the Aged. Somehow I don't think it will get a lot of agreement here.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| It's ok, Abbott has attended mass everyday to seek guidence from the main dude. So rest comfortably. |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| Culprit wrote: | | It's ok, Abbott has attended mass everyday to seek guidence from the main dude. So rest comfortably. |
Refer to stui's post above. Your comment has no sense of reality. Just because someone does have some religious belief does not mean they are extreme in their actions or lack balance.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| Tannin wrote: | My word, the conservatives get ultra-defensive all of a sudden when you challenge their delusions. There thing is, with one honourable exception, they never, ever, ever present rational arguments backed up by evidence. Not here on Nicks, and very rarely anywhere else.
The modus operandi is two quick smears, one vapid thought bubble, and then scream blue bloody murder if anyone dares to present the actual facts of the matter. That inconvenient rationalist, of course, gets ruthlessly attacked - seldom on his or her facts, and practically never on the merits of his or her reasoning, always, bloody always they make it personal and nasty.
The sad part is that there is one - count them, one conservative on this board who actually has the balls to defend his views with genuine argument, who has the sense to present real evidence, and the wit to make a sensible argument from that evidence. I seldom agree with that poster, but like most others here, I have considerable respect for him and wold be more than happy to share a beer or three one day, his place or mine. Stui Magpie, you are a credit to your conservative cause, and the nearest thing there is to an intelligent redneck. The pity is that there are no others like you. All of the other worthwhile posters - by that I mean people who present evidence and argue rationally on that evidence and have some genuine clues - are from centre or the left. All of them. So if anyone is wondering why it is that the centrists and the lefties seem to have little regard for the ignorant right-wingers, stop wondeering. Just look at the way most of them behave.
EDIT: Sorry Jezza. I forgot you mate, perhaps because you don't post here in the VPT all that often. You are a second honourable exception to the above. |
Tannin, you can actually note the responses of political posters by their football posts. I noted years ago that while I nearly always disagreed with Stui on politics I mostly agreed with him on football. I therefore concluded that Stui was an intelligent bloke whose views differed from mine.
At the other extreme is Jack "Sack the coach, Sack the coach, sack the coach whoever he is" Spain. Whose views on footy are even stupider than his views on politics.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | .......
In regards to Labor, I thought they would lose really badly, but it wasn't as bad as I thought in the end despite the comfortable nature of the Coalition's victory. .........Also may I add that I hope Sophie Mirabella...... She's an absolute gold-digging bitch. I hope that Cathy McGowan wins as an Independent! 
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In election terms (& I've seen a few) The ALP loss was a very big loss Jezza.
While I don't like Mirabella why is she a "gold digging bitch"? |
This is why.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/sophies-choice-the-professor-the-politician-and-the-family-feud-20110922-1knbz.html
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| David wrote: | It seems likely to me that whoever is elected Labor leader now will merely be warming the chair until the 'real' candidate comes in sometime before the next election. In the last decade, oppositions have gone through leaders like there's no tomorrow (the last term is an exception, likely due to the hung parliament). Consider the following:
ALP 2001-2004: Beazley, Crean, Latham
ALP 2004-2007: Latham, Beazley, Rudd
Libs 2007-2010: Nelson, Turnbull, Abbott
I expect the ALP caucus will be meeting to elect their Brendan Nelson in the coming weeks. I'm guessing it'll be Albo, with Shorten to take over sometime in 2015. |
No it won't be David because the new system that Rudd got through, where party members (as well as caucus) vote for the leader makes voting in stop gap leaders very unlikely. A vote between Albo and Shorten will be a vote for Abbott's opponent in 2016.
Shorten is far more charismatic, he is a terrific TV performer and has a lot of superficial charm. Unfortunately he is also an absolute opportunist and his behaviour in two leadership challenges has made this obvious.
Albanese is a good speaker and a shrewd politician. He comes across as very combative, which hasn't seemed to hurt Abbott. On the other hand I think he may be more like Peter Costello and Julia Gillard. Both were good deputies and attack dogs and also good ministers but neither managed to inspire much confidence in those who did not share their politics.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Dr Pie wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | My word, the conservatives get ultra-defensive all of a sudden when you challenge their delusions. There thing is, with one honourable exception, they never, ever, ever present rational arguments backed up by evidence. Not here on Nicks, and very rarely anywhere else.
The modus operandi is two quick smears, one vapid thought bubble, and then scream blue bloody murder if anyone dares to present the actual facts of the matter. That inconvenient rationalist, of course, gets ruthlessly attacked - seldom on his or her facts, and practically never on the merits of his or her reasoning, always, bloody always they make it personal and nasty.
The sad part is that there is one - count them, one conservative on this board who actually has the balls to defend his views with genuine argument, who has the sense to present real evidence, and the wit to make a sensible argument from that evidence. I seldom agree with that poster, but like most others here, I have considerable respect for him and wold be more than happy to share a beer or three one day, his place or mine. Stui Magpie, you are a credit to your conservative cause, and the nearest thing there is to an intelligent redneck. The pity is that there are no others like you. All of the other worthwhile posters - by that I mean people who present evidence and argue rationally on that evidence and have some genuine clues - are from centre or the left. All of them. So if anyone is wondering why it is that the centrists and the lefties seem to have little regard for the ignorant right-wingers, stop wondeering. Just look at the way most of them behave.
EDIT: Sorry Jezza. I forgot you mate, perhaps because you don't post here in the VPT all that often. You are a second honourable exception to the above. |
Tannin, you can actually note the responses of political posters by their football posts. I noted years ago that while I nearly always disagreed with Stui on politics I mostly agreed with him on football. I therefore concluded that Stui was an intelligent bloke whose views differed from mine.
At the other extreme is Jack "Sack the coach, Sack the coach, sack the coach whoever he is" Spain. Whose views on footy are even stupider than his views on politics. |
Thanks for that Dr. Pie, I reached the same conclusion about you a while back too. That works fine for me, I don't need to have people agree with me on everything, I can still consider someone to be a "Good Bloke" who I like associating with, even if we violently disagree on some subjects. Life would be boring if we all shared a brain.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Member 7167 wrote: | | Culprit wrote: | | It's ok, Abbott has attended mass everyday to seek guidence from the main dude. So rest comfortably. |
Refer to stui's post above. Your comment has no sense of reality. Just because someone does have some religious belief does not mean they are extreme in their actions or lack balance. |
Abbott is extreme in his actions, do I need to remind you about his time as health minister where his religous beliefs made him oppose access to the abortion drug RU486. He said at the time if he is elected he will change the law as reducing the amount of abortions was his national priority.
You can sit with the religious nutters as I am all for removing religion as a whole. At the end of the day if I am wrong I will know. If you are wrong you will never know. |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| If they were in favour of sophie, they would have never have disapeared Stui. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
pay that.
So now Labor is heading to a new election, this time for Leader. Shorten vs Albo. Rather than just a simple caucus vote, under the Krudd amendments it requires the vote of members as well, do they're looking at campaigning and debates.
I'm very much in two minds about this process. On one hand I like the idea that rank and file members get a say. On the other hand, the risk is that the members vote for the most charismatic rather than the one who would do the best job. (that's not just their problem by the way)
Thoughts? Is this a good process or should the next appointed leader scrap it?
Also on the candidates? I don't think either are actually going to take Labor forward but more back to basics and further marginalise their supporter base, but the fact is they don't have a lot of options. Regardless, winning the leadership now IMO is a poisoned chalice. Which ever one of these lose the internal selection process is far more likely to be the next Labor PM than the loser is.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| stui magpie wrote: | | On the other hand, the risk is that the members vote for the most charismatic rather than the one who would do the best job. |
Yeah, I suppose so. For better or for worse, that's democracy I guess.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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