 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | ^
pay that.
So now Labor is heading to a new election, this time for Leader. Shorten vs Albo. Rather than just a simple caucus vote, under the Krudd amendments it requires the vote of members as well, do they're looking at campaigning and debates.
I'm very much in two minds about this process. On one hand I like the idea that rank and file members get a say. On the other hand, the risk is that the members vote for the most charismatic rather than the one who would do the best job. (that's not just their problem by the way)
Thoughts? Is this a good process or should the next appointed leader scrap it?
Also on the candidates? I don't think either are actually going to take Labor forward but more back to basics and further marginalise their supporter base, but the fact is they don't have a lot of options. Regardless, winning the leadership now IMO is a poisoned chalice. Which ever one of these lose the internal selection process is far more likely to be the next Labor PM than the loser is. |
If you were a betting man you would have been hard pressed to put money on Abbott becoming PM. He hung in there against all the odds.
_________________
Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
|
|
|
 |
David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Indeed. Have to admit I thought they'd lost the plot when they put him in charge. Although, some might say that Turnbull would have beaten Gillard in 2010 (Abbott's unpopularity was a pretty big reason the Coalition couldn't win). Have to say, the country would probably be in a lot better shape now if that had happened.
I blame Peter Slipper! 
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ Turnbull wouldn't have had them in he position Abbott had them in heading in. Krudd would have gone in as Pm instead of Killard.
Abbott did in 4 yrs what Whittlam did in 6.
Turnbull wouldn't have done that.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I dunno. I guess it's conjecture, but I'm pretty sure Labor did it entirely them to themselves. Not sure that Abbott did all that much.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
On the Labor leadership. Alledgedly the Caucus is likely to vote for Shorten because he is the more presentable politician while the rank and file will vote Albo because Shorten is seen as a turncoat given that he was involved in Gillard's replacement of Rudd and Rudd's replacement of Gillard.
Personally I would like to see Albanese leadeer in Abbott's first term because he will be more aggressive and Shorten leader for 2019 when he could actually win.
_________________
Born and raised in Black and White |
|
|
|
|
MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | I dunno. I guess it's conjecture, but I'm pretty sure Labor did it entirely them to themselves. Not sure that Abbott did all that much. |
Can't not agree with that in part. No doubt without Gillard and Rudd, Abbott may have struggled to change the publics perception of him from the role he played in the years of the Howard's government. I've said many times, labor supporters on here should hate what Rudd and Gillard have done to their party more than Abbott.
That said, I think the bigger problem is with the whole party - there are a lot more of the wrong types of "Rudd" personalities in it. Some of the better members have been forced out between the last election and this one.
A choice between a union hack and faction hack for leadership is what they are left with.
Abbott though has changed the perception of him and has matured into the leadership role progressively well. His reaction so far in victory has been humble and measured.
You have to give him credit for the 4 years of consistent growth even with the bumps along the way.
The left wont though as evident by ptid hysterical ramblings. If they and others want to continue to look for reasons other than Abbott for his success then they will continue to underestimate him.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ You do realise that Abbott, Pyne, Bishop and co. are all 'faction hacks' as well, right? The Liberal Party have just as many sub-groupings and power bases.
The reason PTID, I and others continue to underestimate Abbott is not because he isn't a good political campaignerI don't have much of a view on thatbut because he never once made a decent case as to why he would make a good prime minister or why his party would form a good government. Indeed, a lot of the evidence provided so far points to the contrary. I guess we'll see if he can pleasantly surprise us.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| I really couldn't say for sure. |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
For those who think this thread should take more of a musical direction, here's a song supposedly written about Tony Abbott:
http://youtu.be/fgPBb9qEFl0
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | ^ You do realise that Abbott, Pyne, Bishop and co. are all 'faction hacks' as well, right? The Liberal Party have just as many sub-groupings and power bases.
The reason PTID, I and others continue to underestimate Abbott is not because he isn't a good political campaignerI don't have much of a view on thatbut because he never once made a decent case as to why he would make a good prime minister or why his party would form a good government. Indeed, a lot of the evidence provided so far points to the contrary. I guess we'll see if he can pleasantly surprise us. |
Nothing even close to he union and socialist driven factions of labor.
Abbott made a great case as to why, and he made it often.
90 seats and 53% of the primary did not all come from labors incompetence.
Just because you don't agree and then choose not to listen doesn't make it so.
If Abbott behaves and governs in the "class war" style of Gillard, Rudd, Albo, Shorton and co then ill vote him out with everyone else.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
|
|
|
|
Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Dr Pie wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | My word, the conservatives get ultra-defensive all of a sudden when you challenge their delusions. There thing is, with one honourable exception, they never, ever, ever present rational arguments backed up by evidence. Not here on Nicks, and very rarely anywhere else.
The modus operandi is two quick smears, one vapid thought bubble, and then scream blue bloody murder if anyone dares to present the actual facts of the matter. That inconvenient rationalist, of course, gets ruthlessly attacked - seldom on his or her facts, and practically never on the merits of his or her reasoning, always, bloody always they make it personal and nasty.
The sad part is that there is one - count them, one conservative on this board who actually has the balls to defend his views with genuine argument, who has the sense to present real evidence, and the wit to make a sensible argument from that evidence. I seldom agree with that poster, but like most others here, I have considerable respect for him and wold be more than happy to share a beer or three one day, his place or mine. Stui Magpie, you are a credit to your conservative cause, and the nearest thing there is to an intelligent redneck. The pity is that there are no others like you. All of the other worthwhile posters - by that I mean people who present evidence and argue rationally on that evidence and have some genuine clues - are from centre or the left. All of them. So if anyone is wondering why it is that the centrists and the lefties seem to have little regard for the ignorant right-wingers, stop wondeering. Just look at the way most of them behave.
EDIT: Sorry Jezza. I forgot you mate, perhaps because you don't post here in the VPT all that often. You are a second honourable exception to the above. |
Tannin, you can actually note the responses of political posters by their football posts. I noted years ago that while I nearly always disagreed with Stui on politics I mostly agreed with him on football. I therefore concluded that Stui was an intelligent bloke whose views differed from mine.
At the other extreme is Jack "Sack the coach, Sack the coach, sack the coach whoever he is" Spain. Whose views on footy are even stupider than his views on politics. |
Dr Pie, it is very obvious that we both have very different viewpoints on most things political. At the end of the day we are the sum total of many things encompassing our intellect and life experiences and these amongst other things contribute towards diversity of opinion.
Whilst your outlook differs to my own I take interest in what you have to say as there are normally well balanced and you do not attack other posters. You do not attempt to denigrate others, act superior or attempt to present other contributors in an averse and false manner.
You are a gentleman, which is something I term I cannot associate to some on this forum.
As for stui, I have always enjoyed his contribution and will catch up with him again next season for a beer and a chat.
_________________
Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Member 7167 wrote: | | You are a gentleman, which is something I term I cannot associate to some on this forum |
Yes cause some of us are girly types - bloody typical of LNP misogynists
So our opinion is irrelevant - "carry on chaps" - we girls shall pretend to listen to what you say and then walk away thinking " WTF " " shite they talk bollocks" and "no wonder the world the world is fcked!!
I enjoy most of the posts and the alternative views on here and those i don't I ignore ( well I try to!)
We can espouse, rationalise, plead our cases but ya know when it is all said and done it is only opinion posted on an Internet BB 
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| How? |
|
|
|
|
Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Or more to the point, why?
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Morrigu wrote: | | Member 7167 wrote: | | You are a gentleman, which is something I term I cannot associate to some on this forum |
Yes cause some of us are girly types - bloody typical of LNP misogynists
So our opinion is irrelevant - "carry on chaps" - we girls shall pretend to listen to what you say and then walk away thinking " WTF " " shite they talk bollocks" and "no wonder the world the world is fcked!!
I enjoy most of the posts and the alternative views on here and those i don't I ignore ( well I try to!)
We can espouse, rationalise, plead our cases but ya know when it is all said and done it is only opinion posted on an Internet BB |
The reason I did not refer to some of the female posters as I do not have an issue with them and very much support TP's viewpoint the majority of the time.
Morrigu, I would never refer to you as either offensive or a gentleman. An oversight does not make me a misogynists  
_________________
Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
