#17,#11 Dayne Beams
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| stui magpie wrote: | Beams is doing Art Therapy, making his own pieces of art and started a business to sell them with a % of takings going to a mental health charity.
I'm wondering at what point, if any, his pay gets reduced.
AFL isn't like the real world. In the real world you get sick leave, if it runs out you don't get paid. If you have a work related condition/injury you can go Workcover. These don't apply to AFL footballers.
To be clear, I'm not saying we should cut his pay, just interested in how long someone can draw a salary while on sick leave. I assume if it looks like he's not coming back we have to negotiate a severance deal. |
I think the contracts are guaranteed in the event of injury and mental health is considered an injury (as it should). There is insurance clubs could buy but not sure AFL clubs are doing that (as the sums involved aren't that much).
But as an aside, other than for purposes of getting salary cap relief (which i get is something for us to care about as it relates to our ability to recruit and retain players), why on earth does anyone care whether Beams is being paid and how much and by whom?
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| E wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Beams is doing Art Therapy, making his own pieces of art and started a business to sell them with a % of takings going to a mental health charity.
I'm wondering at what point, if any, his pay gets reduced.
AFL isn't like the real world. In the real world you get sick leave, if it runs out you don't get paid. If you have a work related condition/injury you can go Workcover. These don't apply to AFL footballers.
To be clear, I'm not saying we should cut his pay, just interested in how long someone can draw a salary while on sick leave. I assume if it looks like he's not coming back we have to negotiate a severance deal. |
I think the contracts are guaranteed in the event of injury and mental health is considered an injury (as it should). There is insurance clubs could buy but not sure AFL clubs are doing that (as the sums involved aren't that much).
But as an aside, other than for purposes of getting salary cap relief (which i get is something for us to care about as it relates to our ability to recruit and retain players), why on earth does anyone care whether Beams is being paid and how much and by whom? |
why should he be treated any differently because he is a footballer? what Stui says is correct. Football, and more specifically, collingwood didnt create his mental illness, and even if it did, thats what workcover or some kind of centrelink payment is for. your average citizen has to make it work. Collingwood would have been, and still would be providing the best mental health care money can buy and that should be enough. i really hope his contract is performance based. We need the cap space, and hes not on a small salary, and hes not earning it. if anything he should be on long term something or other.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I am truly sickened by some of the comments posted here
Firstly most on here have zilch idea of actually what is going on behind the scenes with Dayne and the club and his recovery
For some to suggest the club hadn't done it's due diligence when signing Dayne give our club zero credit
Dayne's issues were very well known to the club and the public. He had come out and stated them publicly 18 months prior and had been dealing with them ever since
The club knew exactly what it was getting and had a plan in place to deal with it.
Now the plan might not have worked as we had hoped but don't think for a minute this wasn't given consideration when we made the trade
Secondly again those posters on here concerned about the cost to the club again don't know the actual terms of his trade. The Lions paid a considerable chunk of his remaining contract (2 years) and the club extended his deal to spread the remaining contract over a longer period (less money each year longer term equates to same earnings for the player similar to what they did with Sidey when Dayne came back)
Thirdly a club can't just medically retire a player at a whim. There is protocols in place including the player wanting to retire and the AFL approving it after several exhaustive requirements are met. It would be simple if a club had a player who they no longer wanted and said hey we will give you a new 3 year deal them tell the AFL your wanting medical retirement you get your money still and we free a list spot so we all win
It doesn't happen like that. If it did Langdon would be off our list now as the club considered that approach but the player didn't want to retire which is his right
Lastly everyone thinks this decision was made by Dayne and Dayne alone
Has anyone actually thought this might have been a decision made by the clubs doctors and Dayne's doctors for a specific reason ??
Until people know the actual facts they should keep there personal judgements to themselves
Question the trade at face value is fine and question the value of the trade in terms of draft picks not a issue.
We all handle challenges in life differently and to judge a person based on how you believe you would handle the same situation isn't right
For those who have expressed him good wishes and a speedy recovery I thank you
For the others I hope you never have to live with the level of grief Dayne is dealing with because you may not be as strong in person as you are behind your keyboards
Rant over |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | I am truly sickened by some of the comments posted here
Firstly most on here have zilch idea of actually what is going on behind the scenes with Dayne and the club and his recovery
For some to suggest the club hadn't done it's due diligence when signing Dayne give our club zero credit
Dayne's issues were very well known to the club and the public. He had come out and stated them publicly 18 months prior and had been dealing with them ever since
The club knew exactly what it was getting and had a plan in place to deal with it.
Now the plan might not have worked as we had hoped but don't think for a minute this wasn't given consideration when we made the trade
Secondly again those posters on here concerned about the cost to the club again don't know the actual terms of his trade. The Lions paid a considerable chunk of his remaining contract (2 years) and the club extended his deal to spread the remaining contract over a longer period (less money each year longer term equates to same earnings for the player similar to what they did with Sidey when Dayne came back)
Thirdly a club can't just medically retire a player at a whim. There is protocols in place including the player wanting to retire and the AFL approving it after several exhaustive requirements are met. It would be simple if a club had a player who they no longer wanted and said hey we will give you a new 3 year deal them tell the AFL your wanting medical retirement you get your money still and we free a list spot so we all win
It doesn't happen like that. If it did Langdon would be off our list now as the club considered that approach but the player didn't want to retire which is his right
Lastly everyone thinks this decision was made by Dayne and Dayne alone
Has anyone actually thought this might have been a decision made by the clubs doctors and Dayne's doctors for a specific reason ??
Until people know the actual facts they should keep there personal judgements to themselves
Question the trade at face value is fine and question the value of the trade in terms of draft picks not a issue.
We all handle challenges in life differently and to judge a person based on how you believe you would handle the same situation isn't right
For those who have expressed him good wishes and a speedy recovery I thank you
For the others I hope you never have to live with the level of grief Dayne is dealing with because you may not be as strong in person as you are behind your keyboards
Rant over |
QLDmagpie67- I know you are close with the Beams family and hopefully you can help shed some clarity on many rumours that have been swirling- this will likely put a stop to much of the negative discussion around Dayne's situation.
*Did/does he have significant gambling debts and is basically broke?
*Has hid relationship with former best mate Steele fallen apart? If it has, why?
I think most are just angry and upset that clearly there is something more going on than Dayen and the club are telling us- what that actually is, I have no idea- yet these rumours keep persisting.
Hope you can help clear things up |
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Boogie Knights
Joined: 18 Sep 2015
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^^^
I appreciate everyone is curious about the validity (or otherwise) of rumours, and some may feel it is their right to 'know' such things about public figures, however everyone should be afforded a degree of privacy especially as it relates to probably contributing and increasing factors in mental health battles.
I'm sure if anyone here was suffering such demons, you would not want the cause/s made public and strewn across the internet. Nor would it benefit your recovery. |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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| Boogie Knights wrote: | ^^^
I appreciate everyone is curious about the validity (or otherwise) of rumours, and some may feel it is their right to 'know' such things about public figures, however everyone should be afforded a degree of privacy especially as it relates to probably contributing and increasing factors in mental health battles.
I'm sure if anyone here was suffering such demons, you would not want the cause/s made public and strewn across the internet. Nor would it benefit your recovery. |
completely understand your position- I do not feel I ahve the 'right' to know- although others likely do.
I'd simply like to know so i can truly figure out how I feel about the whole situation.
I was not a fan of bringing him back, yet am aware that I am not a recruiter and have no real understanding of how to run a footy club.
There are already plenty of rumours and innuendo splashed around the web on this topic- if it were me- I'd personally like to set the record straight- whatever it is.
This way- people can then make informed decisions- and I could move on with my life, rather than having the shadow of doubt forever following me.
It's a crappy situation- whatever way you look at it |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I actually dont feel the need to know those answers. I genuinely hope he finds his peace, im happy for the club to help him find it.
however, i want the right thing to be done by the club. I trust the club will help Beams. But just as with any business, his job has to be done by someone else. your average business can do that without effecting their allowed total employee payments. If we have cap issues then tough calls need to be made. just ask Darren Jolly. Luke Ball. who else was not really ready to retire?
I want a premiership, im getting tired of second and third. Long term injury list they still get a base wage. Is that where he is now?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Born to Pie
Born to Pie
Joined: 20 Sep 2011
Location: Tolga FNQ
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In the end, it's not going to matter how many breaths you took, but how many moments took your breath away
Last edited by Born to Pie on Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:01 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| matrix10 wrote: | | I'd simply like to know so i can truly figure out how I feel about the whole situation... This way- people can then make informed decisions |
Love to hear what “decisions” you or other people need to make about it?
Your opening is correct: you’d “like” to know. You don’t need to
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| think positive wrote: | | E wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Beams is doing Art Therapy, making his own pieces of art and started a business to sell them with a % of takings going to a mental health charity.
I'm wondering at what point, if any, his pay gets reduced.
AFL isn't like the real world. In the real world you get sick leave, if it runs out you don't get paid. If you have a work related condition/injury you can go Workcover. These don't apply to AFL footballers.
To be clear, I'm not saying we should cut his pay, just interested in how long someone can draw a salary while on sick leave. I assume if it looks like he's not coming back we have to negotiate a severance deal. |
I think the contracts are guaranteed in the event of injury and mental health is considered an injury (as it should). There is insurance clubs could buy but not sure AFL clubs are doing that (as the sums involved aren't that much).
But as an aside, other than for purposes of getting salary cap relief (which i get is something for us to care about as it relates to our ability to recruit and retain players), why on earth does anyone care whether Beams is being paid and how much and by whom? |
why should he be treated any differently because he is a footballer? what Stui says is correct. Football, and more specifically, collingwood didnt create his mental illness, and even if it did, thats what workcover or some kind of centrelink payment is for. your average citizen has to make it work. Collingwood would have been, and still would be providing the best mental health care money can buy and that should be enough. i really hope his contract is performance based. We need the cap space, and hes not on a small salary, and hes not earning it. if anything he should be on long term something or other. |
That's right.
No disrespect to Dayne, but if he's not right, then he should retire or we should have a way to delist him more him to LTI list. He occupies a spot on a very short list..and sadly, we'll lose a dozen or so players to injury in 2020, so it makes these spots even more valuable. |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | | I'd simply like to know so i can truly figure out how I feel about the whole situation... This way- people can then make informed decisions |
Love to hear what “decisions” you or other people need to make about it?
Your opening is correct: you’d “like” to know. You don’t need to |
If Dayne is in serious gambling trouble and has fractured relationships with close friends I would hope the club are providing him with as much support as possible- yet still ensuring it does not cause significant disruption to the playing group.
If it is all just rumour and innuendo- I would hope they would come out and say to stop all this theorising on forums like this.
It seems many on here have developed negative views towards Dayne based on rumours- this isn't ideal
I hope Dayne can get his life right |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| matrix10 wrote: | | If it is all just rumour and innuendo- I would hope they would come out and say to stop all this theorising on forums like this. |
Like the club statement on the training track stopped speculation about our injury toll
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | | If it is all just rumour and innuendo- I would hope they would come out and say to stop all this theorising on forums like this. |
Like the club statement on the training track stopped speculation about our injury toll |
touche! |
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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It should have been one first round pick, not 2. Not based on anything but that he was 29.
I was very happy when we traded for him. We'd come so close to winning the flag but it felt like the club was in a really good place. I did think, at the time, that we may have spent a little too much. It's hard to judge how expensive it was, but dont forget we got Roughead for pick 75 in the same trade period.
The trade was:
Collingwood Receive-
Dayne Beams
Pick 41
Pick 44
Brisbane Lions Receive-
Pick 18
Pick 56
Future first round pick (2019)
Now it's hard to keep track of picks these days with live trading and bidding and what not. But in 2018, the Lions took Ely Smith and Noah Answerth whilst we used picks 41 and 44 to match points/bids for IQ and Kelly. With the future first rounder we traded, the Lions on-traded it to Port who selected Mitch Georgiades.
I think it's fair to say that Smith, Answerth, Quaynor and Kelly could all be very good players in the future. Georgiades also had a little bit of hype around him when Port selected him.
Perhaps we could have received a better pick in return, maybe a second rounder, but it's hard to judge after the bidding process for IQ and Kelly. Would we have been forced to use our first pick on IQ anyway? The answer to that is divided. Could we have kept the first round pick and still been able to get IQ and Kelly?
I think the first rounder from the 2019 draft seems to have hurt us. Had we been able to get a second or even a third round in return, it would not have been such a big hit. We needed that earlier pick. But again, I believe we have drafted really well. With the picks we had, I think we brought in players that we'll be very happy with in the future.
As for right now and winning the 2020 flag, I still have hope for Beams and I'll look forward to his return to playing.
This story isn't finished yet.
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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