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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| John Wren wrote: |
why is it a mistake? |
Because it doesn't involve DTM's manlove, Darcey Moore. If Moore was one of the said players, DTM would have defended and supported him forever.
Side by side indeed..... 
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Look at it this way, if Keeffe wasn't being a selfish knob, we would have had an extra tall when we needed it recently when Cloke went down and White lost all confidence.
His actions have hurt the club, probably cost us 4 points that might mean the difference between finals and no finals.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| John Wren wrote: |
why is it a mistake? |
Because we are Wasting 2 Rookie Spots for the Year.
We rather have 2 Players who have been Found Guitly as using Performance Enhancing Drugs, Who can’t Play for a Year.
How about we Rooking someone who can play next year and might could help the Team IF needed
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I am Da Man |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | David wrote: | | On the contrary, I think that's fantastic news. Perhaps the "side by side" motto is something the club takes seriously after all. |
Why is it "fantastic news"? First, Pert's initial statement confirmed they were going to do this. Secondly, he acknowledged it would be a burden for the Club. Thirdly, it's good for them but nobody much else - the spin in this story is directly contrary to Pert's public remarks and it doesn't make much sense to me (the Club may have a vague wish to keep Keeffe, just, but I doubt it has any serious interest in Thomas at all). Fourthly, I want to see my football team win premierships and I am yet to be persuaded that this will help - it may make the players feel warmer and fuzzier about their environment but I don't expect that "warm and fuzzy" will translate into competitive.
In summary, this is probably something the Club feels it "has to do" and I am OK (and no more) with them doing it but I am certainly not excited by the prospect and I would be very pleased if the Bridiots drafted both of them from under our noses, instead.
These two appear to have behaved like clowns and to have placed the Club in a quite invidious position. There are all sorts of problems with the "doping" rules but, for the time being (and possibly forever), they are what they are and it is entirely beyond comprehension why these players couldn't have applied just a little more foresight. The excuses about them being "young" do not wash with me. They have both been around the football scene for much more than long-enough to appreciate the dumb risk they were taking and I find it troubling and disappointing that they don't appear to have given more weight to the impact such stupidity could have on their team-mates, the football department, the footballing aspirations of the Club and the hopes of the supporter base.
I could not care less about the AFL "brand" or the Collingwood "brand" but I sure as hell care about how the team goes on the field and it is quite inconceivable that this could improve Collingwood's performance in 2016 at all. We may be able to carry them - but that's about it. |
Pert's statement was a bit ambiguous - I wasn't sure whether he was referring to the 2015 or 2016 drafts, and the latter seemed more logical.
It's fantastic news precisely because it doesn't benefit the club in any obvious way. Except for one: it's a show of loyalty that will have a hugely positive impact on team morale and make all players (not just Keeffe and Thomas) more willing to give back to the club.
At the end of the day, two rookie list spots is not such a big sacrifice. The rookie list is there for second chances and long-shot projects (like the Irish and American experiments).
While you may justifiably find the concept of elite athletes taking party drugs inherently stupid, remember that the consequences here far outweighed anything they could have reasonably expected. Did you know that cocaine could contain traces of clembuterol before this story broke? I certainly didn't. The 'stupidity ' of their act doesn't even come close to matching the price that they have already paid.
Personally, I would have preferred that the club help them fight the charge. But given the political climate and WADA's big man on campus attitude, this was probably the best result they could have hoped for. As such, I commend the club for how they've responded to this. |
Yeah your right about the example it sets the other player; be a knob hurt the team we will pick up the pieces, who needs premierships anyway?
Whatsinaname is right losing Keeffe quite possibly cost us 4 points
It's a business not a highschool
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | David wrote: | | On the contrary, I think that's fantastic news. Perhaps the "side by side" motto is something the club takes seriously after all. |
Why is it "fantastic news"? First, Pert's initial statement confirmed they were going to do this. Secondly, he acknowledged it would be a burden for the Club. Thirdly, it's good for them but nobody much else - the spin in this story is directly contrary to Pert's public remarks and it doesn't make much sense to me (the Club may have a vague wish to keep Keeffe, just, but I doubt it has any serious interest in Thomas at all). Fourthly, I want to see my football team win premierships and I am yet to be persuaded that this will help - it may make the players feel warmer and fuzzier about their environment but I don't expect that "warm and fuzzy" will translate into competitive.
In summary, this is probably something the Club feels it "has to do" and I am OK (and no more) with them doing it but I am certainly not excited by the prospect and I would be very pleased if the Bridiots drafted both of them from under our noses, instead.
These two appear to have behaved like clowns and to have placed the Club in a quite invidious position. There are all sorts of problems with the "doping" rules but, for the time being (and possibly forever), they are what they are and it is entirely beyond comprehension why these players couldn't have applied just a little more foresight. The excuses about them being "young" do not wash with me. They have both been around the football scene for much more than long-enough to appreciate the dumb risk they were taking and I find it troubling and disappointing that they don't appear to have given more weight to the impact such stupidity could have on their team-mates, the football department, the footballing aspirations of the Club and the hopes of the supporter base.
I could not care less about the AFL "brand" or the Collingwood "brand" but I sure as hell care about how the team goes on the field and it is quite inconceivable that this could improve Collingwood's performance in 2016 at all. We may be able to carry them - but that's about it. |
Pert's statement was a bit ambiguous - I wasn't sure whether he was referring to the 2015 or 2016 drafts, and the latter seemed more logical.
It's fantastic news precisely because it doesn't benefit the club in any obvious way. Except for one: it's a show of loyalty that will have a hugely positive impact on team morale and make all players (not just Keeffe and Thomas) more willing to give back to the club.
At the end of the day, two rookie list spots is not such a big sacrifice. The rookie list is there for second chances and long-shot projects (like the Irish and American experiments).
While you may justifiably find the concept of elite athletes taking party drugs inherently stupid, remember that the consequences here far outweighed anything they could have reasonably expected. Did you know that cocaine could contain traces of clembuterol before this story broke? I certainly didn't. The 'stupidity ' of their act doesn't even come close to matching the price that they have already paid.
Personally, I would have preferred that the club help them fight the charge. But given the political climate and WADA's big man on campus attitude, this was probably the best result they could have hoped for. As such, I commend the club for how they've responded to this. |
Yeah your right about the example it sets the other player; be a knob hurt the team we will pick up the pieces, who needs premierships anyway?
Whatsinaname is right losing Keeffe quite possibly cost us 4 points
It's a business not a highschool |
it's not just a business per se. it's a sporting team. it's a big family. i guess you don't give people second chances or the opportunity to right their wrongs or take people under your wings when they don't go so well. it is ok to be human in all of this.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| John Wren wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | David wrote: | | On the contrary, I think that's fantastic news. Perhaps the "side by side" motto is something the club takes seriously after all. |
Why is it "fantastic news"? First, Pert's initial statement confirmed they were going to do this. Secondly, he acknowledged it would be a burden for the Club. Thirdly, it's good for them but nobody much else - the spin in this story is directly contrary to Pert's public remarks and it doesn't make much sense to me (the Club may have a vague wish to keep Keeffe, just, but I doubt it has any serious interest in Thomas at all). Fourthly, I want to see my football team win premierships and I am yet to be persuaded that this will help - it may make the players feel warmer and fuzzier about their environment but I don't expect that "warm and fuzzy" will translate into competitive.
In summary, this is probably something the Club feels it "has to do" and I am OK (and no more) with them doing it but I am certainly not excited by the prospect and I would be very pleased if the Bridiots drafted both of them from under our noses, instead.
These two appear to have behaved like clowns and to have placed the Club in a quite invidious position. There are all sorts of problems with the "doping" rules but, for the time being (and possibly forever), they are what they are and it is entirely beyond comprehension why these players couldn't have applied just a little more foresight. The excuses about them being "young" do not wash with me. They have both been around the football scene for much more than long-enough to appreciate the dumb risk they were taking and I find it troubling and disappointing that they don't appear to have given more weight to the impact such stupidity could have on their team-mates, the football department, the footballing aspirations of the Club and the hopes of the supporter base.
I could not care less about the AFL "brand" or the Collingwood "brand" but I sure as hell care about how the team goes on the field and it is quite inconceivable that this could improve Collingwood's performance in 2016 at all. We may be able to carry them - but that's about it. |
Pert's statement was a bit ambiguous - I wasn't sure whether he was referring to the 2015 or 2016 drafts, and the latter seemed more logical.
It's fantastic news precisely because it doesn't benefit the club in any obvious way. Except for one: it's a show of loyalty that will have a hugely positive impact on team morale and make all players (not just Keeffe and Thomas) more willing to give back to the club.
At the end of the day, two rookie list spots is not such a big sacrifice. The rookie list is there for second chances and long-shot projects (like the Irish and American experiments).
While you may justifiably find the concept of elite athletes taking party drugs inherently stupid, remember that the consequences here far outweighed anything they could have reasonably expected. Did you know that cocaine could contain traces of clembuterol before this story broke? I certainly didn't. The 'stupidity ' of their act doesn't even come close to matching the price that they have already paid.
Personally, I would have preferred that the club help them fight the charge. But given the political climate and WADA's big man on campus attitude, this was probably the best result they could have hoped for. As such, I commend the club for how they've responded to this. |
Yeah your right about the example it sets the other player; be a knob hurt the team we will pick up the pieces, who needs premierships anyway?
Whatsinaname is right losing Keeffe quite possibly cost us 4 points
It's a business not a highschool |
it's not just a business per se. it's a sporting team. it's a big family. i guess you don't give people second chances or the opportunity to right their wrongs or take people under your wings when they don't go so well. it is ok to be human in all of this. |
Actually, you'd go along way to find someone as compassionate as me. I give way too much, and allow myself to cop way too much crap.
I just can't believe the attitude here. These fools are on mega bucks considering the job they do. And they are still getting paid even though they did the wrong thing. I never said don't give them a second chance. I said make em bloody well earn it. I thought we were in the business of trying to win premierships? And why do they worry so much about the bottom line?
I would give my right tit to be so good at the sport I love to make a living from it. And I would give it everything I've got to be the best I could. I'm no sports star, but I have played a lot of sport, coached a lot of sport, and I still do the occasional mud run, and guess what? There has never been a day I did t give it my best shot. Not one. If it's a team sport, I'm grateful they let me play. If it's a run, add I'm only accountable to myself, I want to see what I can do. Don't waste my time with good enough, give me your best. I've coached dozens of youngsters, and I tell them all, give me your best, that's all you can do, leave nothing behind and look yourself in the eye every night.
And I've coached almost 30 grand finals, with a 70% success rate.
Taking the chance they did, for a quick high, or a boost, who really knows? That ain't giving their best.
Cheers
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| But you implied don't give them a second chance . |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| HAL wrote: | | But you implied don't give them a second chance . |
No I fecking didn't!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Maybe they could deliver the books I just got an email from the club for, history on a payment plan!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | David wrote: | | On the contrary, I think that's fantastic news. Perhaps the "side by side" motto is something the club takes seriously after all. |
Why is it "fantastic news"? First, Pert's initial statement confirmed they were going to do this. Secondly, he acknowledged it would be a burden for the Club. Thirdly, it's good for them but nobody much else - the spin in this story is directly contrary to Pert's public remarks and it doesn't make much sense to me (the Club may have a vague wish to keep Keeffe, just, but I doubt it has any serious interest in Thomas at all). Fourthly, I want to see my football team win premierships and I am yet to be persuaded that this will help - it may make the players feel warmer and fuzzier about their environment but I don't expect that "warm and fuzzy" will translate into competitive.
In summary, this is probably something the Club feels it "has to do" and I am OK (and no more) with them doing it but I am certainly not excited by the prospect and I would be very pleased if the Bridiots drafted both of them from under our noses, instead.
These two appear to have behaved like clowns and to have placed the Club in a quite invidious position. There are all sorts of problems with the "doping" rules but, for the time being (and possibly forever), they are what they are and it is entirely beyond comprehension why these players couldn't have applied just a little more foresight. The excuses about them being "young" do not wash with me. They have both been around the football scene for much more than long-enough to appreciate the dumb risk they were taking and I find it troubling and disappointing that they don't appear to have given more weight to the impact such stupidity could have on their team-mates, the football department, the footballing aspirations of the Club and the hopes of the supporter base.
I could not care less about the AFL "brand" or the Collingwood "brand" but I sure as hell care about how the team goes on the field and it is quite inconceivable that this could improve Collingwood's performance in 2016 at all. We may be able to carry them - but that's about it. |
Pert's statement was a bit ambiguous - I wasn't sure whether he was referring to the 2015 or 2016 drafts, and the latter seemed more logical.
It's fantastic news precisely because it doesn't benefit the club in any obvious way. Except for one: it's a show of loyalty that will have a hugely positive impact on team morale and make all players (not just Keeffe and Thomas) more willing to give back to the club.
At the end of the day, two rookie list spots is not such a big sacrifice. The rookie list is there for second chances and long-shot projects (like the Irish and American experiments).
While you may justifiably find the concept of elite athletes taking party drugs inherently stupid, remember that the consequences here far outweighed anything they could have reasonably expected. Did you know that cocaine could contain traces of clembuterol before this story broke? I certainly didn't. The 'stupidity ' of their act doesn't even come close to matching the price that they have already paid.
Personally, I would have preferred that the club help them fight the charge. But given the political climate and WADA's big man on campus attitude, this was probably the best result they could have hoped for. As such, I commend the club for how they've responded to this. |
Yes, I knew that was what you meant. It isn't a meaning of "fantastic" that I share. "Fantastic" things at Collingwood include recruiting a 143-goal per year full-forward and seeing him kick 16.4 one day from the forward-pocket at the Railway End. They don't include watching a pair of young men who should have known better shoot themselves and your Club collectively in the foot and seeing your Club obliged to save the two young men from the consequences of their actions.
As I said, I'm OK with the Club doing it - it's probably "the right thing" - but I don't think it's "fantastic" - it's just "sort of OK". It will be "fantastic" if it doesn't cost the Club a chance at a premiership. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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^ Well, given that it's pretty unlikely the decision to rookie list them will cost us a premiership, perhaps we're on the same fantastic page after all. 
I don't understand this attitude of blaming the players for leaving us in the lurch, as if they chose to get suspended. They clearly didn't do this with the aim of getting suspended, and you couldn't even say that what they did was particularly reckless - clearly, no-one had any reason to think that they were going to end up with PEDs in their system.
Would any of you be pointing the finger at them if they'd had their drink spiked? In a sense, that's not dissimilar to what's happened here.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | ^ Well, given that it's pretty unlikely the decision to rookie list them will cost us a premiership, perhaps we're on the same fantastic page after all.
I don't understand this attitude of blaming the players for leaving us in the lurch, as if they chose to get suspended. They clearly didn't do this with the aim of getting suspended, and you couldn't even say that what they did was particularly reckless - clearly, no-one had any reason to think that they were going to end up with PEDs in their system.
Would any of you be pointing the finger at them if they'd had their drink spiked? In a sense, that's not dissimilar to what's happened here. |
I'm speecess!
They left themselves wide open! They gambled and lost.
And they hurt more than just themselves, they left the team in the lurch by their action, this loyalty thing works both ways. And yes if it was swanny if be even more pissed off! Hopefully the Stars have better quality dealers : P
Do you really think they should get paid when they cannot even train at the club?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| think positive wrote: | | I'm speecess! |
Evidently. 
| think positive wrote: | | Do you really think they should get paid when they cannot even train at the club? |
To be honest, I don't really care. I think that's something for the club and the players to work out. If they do in the end decide to pay them for a year on the sidelines, they must somehow think it's worth their while.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: |
Would any of you be pointing the finger at them if they'd had their drink spiked? In a sense, that's not dissimilar to what's happened here. |
It's not remotely the same thing.
They knowingly purchased and took an illegal substance that they know full well is manufactured with no quality control and could have been cut with anything. They gambled and lost.
In that they have done a service to many of their peers who also gamble and to date haven't lost, of exactly how high the stakes are
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| C'mon stui - I bet that oil isn't even from a real snake. |
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