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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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Well FWI we had a wonderful day 
4 old bags who met and nursed together in the Territory and the Kimberley some 20 odd years ago gathered to watch and listen to something we had always hoped to hear in our lifetime
We didn't know it at the time but one of our mob had arranged for 2 of the very first indigenous women we trained in a very young Aboriginal Health worker course to attend. Oh the memories - we taught them basic health care - they taught us so much more! We tripled the profits of the tissue manufacturers before, during and after Rudd's speech.
And then Nelson spoke - he started off ok but it wasn't long before it became apparent that he had totally missed the point and failed to grasp any semblance of the occasion and the emotion it embodied. One by one we turned our chairs - embarrassed by his lack of human spirit
And as for the absolute tool reading the magazine grrrrrrrrrrr!!
But you know Nelson you failed - there was fleeting pain and anger but you could not detract or steal the joy felt.
And afterwards at the restaurant we went for lunch at - what a delight to have Tony the manager approach our table and insist that in the spirit of the day - lunch was on him
But the quote of the day goes to Charly - 'Nah it's alright Suz just like you told me all them years ago them bloody doctors might be clever with medicine stuff but they sure are snotty bastards eh!"
Looks like some things don't change - thankfully some do! |
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hoggy 
Bristle
Joined: 05 Jun 2001
Location: BT
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| nomadjack wrote: | | Hoggy, if it was all about money, then members of the stolen generation wouldn't have accepted Rudd's apology with the good grace that they have. He has explicitly (and wrongly in my view) ruled out setting up a compensation fund, which means that any people seeking compensation will have to do so through the courts. This has proved almost impossible given the time elapsed in many cases and especially given the lack of documentary evidence surrounding most cases. |
My point being that once the Government admitted wrongdoing, they would be held for many, many $$$'s by those that wanted to.
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| If a white persons child was taken away by the Government today for the same reasons the white person would sue the Government. You cannot have two sets of rules. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| You are correct. . . I have no body. |
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member34258
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
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The leader of the racist party made a speech full of racist overtones.
Who here is really surprised about such a thing?
I'm not.
I'm also not surprised by the posters who spring to the racist party's leaders defense. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Geez Member. 
I thought you were better than that.
Yelling "racist" at people who say things you don't agree with is a tad childlish don't you think?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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What a man he is that Nelson fella
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/womans-fury-at-nelson-speech/2008/02/15/1202760545715.html
Woman's fury at Nelson speech
A member of the stolen generations has accused federal Opposition Leader Brendan Nelson of misrepresenting her in his response to the Government's national apology.
Aborigine Faye Lyman told ABC Radio Dr Nelson never asked for her permission to use her name during a speech in response to Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's apology to the stolen generations.
Dr Nelson used Ms Lyman's quotes from the Many Voices oral history documents at the National Library of Australia to argue good was being attempted when Aborigines were removed from their families.
He said that Faye Lyman had left her father when she was eight.
Then Dr Nelson went on to quote her as having said: "Personally I don't want people to say, 'I'm sorry Faye', I just want them to understand."
She was further quoted as having said: "It was very hurtful to leave Dad. Oh it broke my heart. Dad said to me, 'It's hard for daddy and the authorities won't let you stay with me in a tent on the riverbank.
"'You're a little girl and you need someone to look after you'.
"I remember him telling us that, and I cried. I said, 'No, but Dad, you look after us.' But they kept telling us it wasn't the right thing."
An angry and sobbing Ms Lyman today told ABC radio: "He took my story from Many Voices oral history out of context.
"My dad was not happy that I was taken. They cheated us, they cheated me of my life with him.
"I feel like I've been stolen all over again and I am so ashamed he's done this to me."
Dr Nelson rang Ms Lyman last night and promised to ring her again next week to find out if she was still angry and upset, she said.
"He said: 'I just wanted people to know your story'," she said.
"I asked him why he didn't ring me, and he couldn't answer that.
"How dare he use my story for his political career.
"He told me he read this three years ago so he had plenty of time to get in contact with me."
When Dr Nelson spoke in Federal Parliament on Wednesday, he supported an apology but said the issue was complex and no one was morally superior because "good was being sought to be done". |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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| hoggy wrote: | | nomadjack wrote: | | Hoggy, if it was all about money, then members of the stolen generation wouldn't have accepted Rudd's apology with the good grace that they have. He has explicitly (and wrongly in my view) ruled out setting up a compensation fund, which means that any people seeking compensation will have to do so through the courts. This has proved almost impossible given the time elapsed in many cases and especially given the lack of documentary evidence surrounding most cases. |
My point being that once the Government admitted wrongdoing, they would be held for many, many $$$'s by those that wanted to. |
I don't think the apology helps or hinders a persons claim for compensation.
The Courts will decide if there is a case based on the merits of each of the individuals presented evidence.
Saying sorry changes nothing in that regard
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The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Godddamn, I agree with Frances. 
The fact that the Apology was made under Parliamentary Privilige means that it can't be used in legal action.
The only thing it will do is add incentive to those who were going to claim anyway but hadn't (for whatever reason) and now see that the apology gives them scope.
It won't effect their chances of a legal win either way as it's inadmissable.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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member34258
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
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| stui magpie wrote: | Geez Member.
I thought you were better than that.
Yelling "racist" at people who say things you don't agree with is a tad childlish don't you think? |
stui, in the spirit of the Liberal Party's "Guilty Party" adverts all those years ago I feel very comfortable calling the Liberal Party the Racist Party. They have done nothing since the handing over of the Bring Them Home report over a decade ago to excuse themselves from such a label.
Nelson continues the fine Liberal tradition.
His backbenchers also make it more than apparent the underlying racism within the party;
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23210486-2,00.html
| Quote: | LIBERAL backbencher Sophie Mirabella says many indigenous children who were removed from their families were taken for their own protection.
Mrs Mirabella, a Victorian MP, was one of a handful of opposition MPs to boycott the apology to the stolen generations in federal parliament today.
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I feel very comfortable with my position on this. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm just getting a little weary of people throwing the word "racist" around like confetti at a wedding.
On Nelson and the whole "Sorry" thing, I think this is an excellent article by Laurie Oakes in today's paper. Puts a lot of things into perspective. Well worth a read, although I'm sure plenty who disagree with the conculsions will just call it more right wing crap.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23219326-5001030,00.html
| Quote: | IT'S an extraordinary start. Kevin Rudd becomes Prime Minister and, well within his first 100 days, walks straight into the history books.
That is the truth about his parliamentary apology to the Stolen Generation.
And it is not only in Australia where the bipartisan "sorry" vote has made an impact.
The event was world news and Rudd got a flow of positive overseas feedback, including congratulatory text messages from high-level diplomatic contacts and a phone call from Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper.
Had John Howard delivered the apology in 1997, when it was first recommended in the Bringing Them Home report, the outpouring of feeling would not have been nearly as great.
Howard's decade of intransigence magnified the importance of the gesture.
Rudd saw that and used it to put his own stamp on the prime ministership in spectacular fashion.
The surprising thing is that, in his years as a bureaucrat and then an MP, Rudd had never really been part of the bleeding heart brigade on Aboriginal affairs. Until nine months ago he had difficulty seeing any real practical value in the push for an apology.
He finally put it all together in his head when he came to prepare a speech for a function on May 27 last year to mark the 40th anniversary of the 1967 referendum which gave the Federal Government power to legislate for indigenous Australians.
It was remarkable that Rudd was able to focus on the issue at all. The newspapers at the time were full of headlines about an investigation into the (accidental) underpayment of some workers by a company owned by his wife, Therese Rein.
The day before, after a family conference, she had made the very difficult decision to sell the Australian arm of her business to end any perception of a conflict of interest with her husband's career.
Shrugging off that distraction to write the referendum speech, the then Opposition leader saw the links. Before practical measures could be effective it was necessary to build a bridge between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians.
That required respect rather than contempt and suspicion. Saying sorry was about respect.
So Rudd committed himself to the gesture that released such a flood of emotion on Wednesday and left most Australians feeling pretty good about themselves and their country.
In the execution of it he showed what a clever political operator he really is.
To say he played Brendan Nelson as a fisherman plays a trout would be unfair - but he certainly manipulated events to ensure images of unity and bipartisanship overshadowed divisions in Coalition ranks and any equivocation in the Opposition Leader's words.
During the Aboriginal "welcome to country" ceremony at the opening of Parliament, for example, Rudd involved Nelson by giving him just a few minutes' notice that he would be invited to speak.
After the sorry vote, Rudd - again with no warning - invited Nelson to join him in parading around the chamber waving to the galleries before presenting to the Speaker a gift from Stolen Generation representatives.
And the PM deliberately ambushed Nelson with his public invitation to co-chair a kind of "war cabinet" on indigenous housing and other issues, giving the Opposition Leader no chance to confer with colleagues or lay down conditions before accepting.
Rudd clearly thought Nelson might be tempted to break away from bipartisanship unless he was continually corralled.
And there was good reason for such suspicion.
Less than two months earlier Nelson had declared: "I do not support a formal apology by our generation on behalf of what was done, with the best of intentions in most, but not all, cases by earlier generations."
Nelson has not explained his turnaround between that statement and his insistence in the Coalition party room before the sorry motion vote that the apology should be supported.
But the Opposition Leader - he of the infamous "I have never voted Liberal in my life!" statement which he later said was a lie - has rarely been accused of consistency or slavish adherence to principle.
The important thing is that, despite what many saw as a bob-each-way speech, Nelson did stay in the bipartisan tent and kept most of his Coalition colleagues in there with him.
For that he deserves credit.
On Thursday night, at Canberra airport, Nelson ran into Lorna "Nanna" Fejo, the Stolen Generation's member whose sad story was a central feature of Rudd's speech on the sorry motion.
As it happens, Nelson has known Nanna Fejo since he was AMA president.
They are friends.
Nelson invited her, and seven other Aboriginal women who were travelling with her back to Darwin, to join him in the Qantas lounge where they could wait comfortably and have a cup of tea.
Inside, the Opposition Leader spotted a group of eight chairs. Five were occupied but there were others seats nearby, so Nelson politely asked the occupants if they would mind moving to allow the elderly women to sit together.
Four were delighted to do so, but - as Nelson apologised for inconveniencing them - the remaining businessman snarled: "Don't say sorry to me, mate. You did that yesterday and I'm not happy about it. I don't give a stuff who they are - I've got rights here, too."
As one of the Aboriginal women commented consolingly to Nelson later: "Not all people are kind."
The incident demonstrated several things. One is that Nelson is genuinely sympathetic to the cause of indigenous Australians, whatever those who turned their backs during his speech to Parliament might think.
Another is that the Opposition Leader found himself in a no-win situation.
He infuriated many people with the qualifications and reservations in his speech but angered others for going along with the apology at all.
My opinion of the speech, for what it is worth, is that Nelson misjudged the occasion. Much of what he said - about sexual abuse, alcohol misuse and other current problems in Aboriginal communities - would have been fair enough in a different context. But this was not the time for it.
I was reminded of the way Nelson badly misjudged an audience back in July 1995, when, as master of ceremonies at a party fundraiser in Sydney attended by strait-laced Liberal ladies and gentlemen, he chose to tell a series of off-colour jokes.
Many of the guests walked out in disgust. The guest-of-honour, John Howard, later apologised to some of those who attended.
Nelson's supporters argue his "sorry" speech showed courage, not poor judgment.
Nelson, they say, believing that the occasion provided a rare opportunity to bring the current problems of indigenous Australians to the attention of a mass audience, deliberately decided to include some unpleasant truths in the speech even though he knew it could make him unpopular.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Oops. Too much data. |
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member34258
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
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| stui magpie wrote: | Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm just getting a little weary of people throwing the word "racist" around like confetti at a wedding.
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Gee, I wonder what your opinion of the word "communist" thrown at Labour Party supporters all those years would be?
Suppose it's OK for one side, but not for the other. |
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member34258
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
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| stui magpie wrote: |
On Nelson and the whole "Sorry" thing, I think this is an excellent article by Laurie Oakes in today's paper. Puts a lot of things into perspective. Well worth a read, although I'm sure plenty who disagree with the conculsions will just call it more right wing crap.
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When I get a chance I will put up an article from the Shepp News yesterday. Not linkable as they require membership of their website.
But it will show Nelson to be manipulating a story of a stolen life for his own ends.
This will not be an opinion from a political analyst or my own biased opinion. This will be facts straight from the stolen persons life. This will show what a scumbag the Leader Of The Opposition is. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| member34258 wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm just getting a little weary of people throwing the word "racist" around like confetti at a wedding.
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Gee, I wonder what your opinion of the word "communist" thrown at Labour Party supporters all those years would be?
Suppose it's OK for one side, but not for the other. |
I wouldn't think "communist" has the same stigma that "racist" does.
Even when people were being told to beware the red menace, there was a communist party. Seems like me that too many people use "racist" as a cheap way to win a conversation.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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