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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | Dawes got a better offer and took it. Simple. He wasn't guaranteed a spot in our team because he sucked badly as a second ruck, Lynch was better in this role. Melbourne offered him a certain start and far more money, why would he not sign?
Dawes is a decent forward, nothing special but decent. He was though a terrible second ruck option. Because he was so terrible, we needed to recruit one. After doing that, Dawes was worried he wouldn't be able to keep his spot and took the more secure spot at Melbourne. There's no fault on anyone here except Dawes's inability to play the role asked of him in 2012.
Lynch was a better option than Dawes, and White is a better option than Dawes in the role we need them to play.
Also, let's not forget: we essentially replaced Dawes with Lynch but also picked up Grundy, Broomhead or Kennedy. Can't remember exactly which it was. So yeah, White and one of those >>> Dawes. |
Exactly! It's not that hard to understand.... surely! |
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Brenny
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Location: Westpac Centre
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In my opinion, I don't think we have missed Dawes.
Dawes has never been a great second tall option but as a first tall option he has been great at Melbourne.
At the time, Dawes best was the 2nd half of 2010 after he was dropped to the VFL. He came back and performed very well.
After that he was questionable. Dawes is playing his best footy since 2010.
Premiership player and life member who was told to look else where. |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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| Brenny wrote: | In my opinion, I don't think we have missed Dawes.
Dawes has never been a great second tall option but as a first tall option he has been great at Melbourne.
At the time, Dawes best was the 2nd half of 2010 after he was dropped to the VFL. He came back and performed very well.
After that he was questionable. Dawes is playing his best footy since 2010.
Premiership player and life member who refused to accept he may not be best 22 each week and got offered double what he is worth to go to a club who appreciate his character more than his footballing ability |
efa.
I loved dawes-his grand final (replay) was one of the best 10 possession games you will see- but fact is he was next to useless from this point on.
Refused to accept he may have to actually earn his spot.
Attitude like this explains why his law degree is from Vic Uni and not Melbourne/Monash |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| White is better for us than Dawes because he can actually play in the ruck. Dawes is a key forward and that's all. Once we have Reid alongside Cloke up forward, the third spot is for a resting ruckman and Dawes ain't that. |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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| Jezza wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | I think replacing Dawes with Lynch was silly in the sense that we thought we were closer to a flag in 2013 than we anticipated hence the main reason why we went after Lynch, but Dawes was really poor in 2012 though. His confidence was shattered in that year after we tried to mould him into the 'Leigh Brown role' so I wasn't completely surprised to see him leave and there's no hard feelings against him going to Melbourne.
Jesse White hasn't done too much to impress me and I was always weary of recruiting him despite what others were saying, but at least he's younger so he can become a better player as time goes on hopefully. There's clearly more upside with playing White over Lynch so I guess all isn't lost yet.
It would be interesting to see if Dawes did remain at Collingwood how he would be travelling at the present time. Would he be a better player than he was in 2012 or would have his development stalled. I guess we won't know the answers to these questions so no point dwelling on it in reality. Dawes helped us win a flag in 2010 but now he's moved on and we've moved on so that's the end of it. |
We didn't replace Dawes with Lynch. We signed Lynch as a FA. THEN Dawes requested a trade. |
I'm well aware of the fact that Dawes left at his own accord after Buckley told him that he wasn't a certainty to play senior football every week and that we signed Lynch via the avenue of free agency just before Dawes left.
However what I'm saying is that Lynch was seen as a direct replacement or alternative at the very least to Dawes and if Dawes did stay then he had to compete with Lynch for that one forward line spot to play alongside Cloke. It was unlikely both would play in the same side unless Cloke was injured or suspension. Since Dawes was unwilling to stay, it meant Lynch was able to come in and play most of 2013 barring a few omissions along the way and overall he did not produce far better performances in 2013 than Dawes did in 2012 so in hindsight maybe going for Lynch wasn't the right move for the club especially after we realised a premiership flag was out of reach for the next few years as we started rebuilding on the go and started changing the list around with some key departures such as Heath Shaw, Dale Thomas, Darren Jolly, Alan Didak and Andrew Krakouer at the end of 2013.
The way I see it, Lynch was recruited at the end of 2012 so we could challenge for a flag in 2013. Naturally, most of us were excited and pleased with the move after Dawes' poor performances in 2012 and the heavy injury list we had in 2011 and 2012 but since a challenge of the flag was unlikely in 2013 and probably not going to occur this year as well I think the purpose of recruiting Lynch is now obsolete and as a result it wouldn't surprise me if we delisted him at the end of the year to make way for younger players in the side. |
Lynch was a spud at West Coast.
He continues to be a spud at Collingwood.
The most charitable conclusion I can come up with is that due dillegence wasn't done very deeply in this case.
I never thought he would bring us anything positive at all and I think my opinion remains vindicated.
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Last edited by rocketronnie on Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| E wrote: | | Breadcrawl wrote: | Yeah but they just played against us and kicked goals against us jackcass.
It doesn't matter how tall or short they are - you want the guy you bitterly/jealously watched play well against your team the most recently.
Der. |
I think the point is that the White/dawes debate is not helped by throwing in a bruest or a Gunston. you might as well throw in Cyril Rioli. the postion that White and dawes were vying for in the Collingwood team is the third forward/ruck guy. Perhaps you could have said you preferred Hale, since he is that guy for the Hawks. actually the position of relieving ruckman/third forward, is becoming one of the least effective positions on the ground. |
Yes, listening to the Hawks game, im thinking "Who the hell is this Bruest character, I mean, he basically won the game for them. I loathe the dawks, but I give em credit, they pluck these buggers outa nowhere, they win flags, yet use the draft very, very cannily, shrewd, and they rarely, if ever, stuff up a draft. We do very well in the drafts too, but the dawks ability to pluck out guys like gunston and this bruest, just amazes me, they plough on regardless of no buddy, and I thought thatd bugger them, him going, but by god, it has not affected them at all.   
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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Yeah I know right?
Where the hell did Breust come from?
It's not like he's in his fourth season, soon to play his hundredth game, with 150 goals under his belt already.
Not like he's a premiership player or anything.
Not like he kicked a five goal bag against us in 2012.
No wonder you hadn't heard of him
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they can smell what we're cookin' |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Breadcrawl wrote: | Yeah I know right?
Where the hell did Breust come from?
It's not like he's in his fourth season, soon to play his hundredth game, with 150 goals under his belt already.
Not like he's a premiership player or anything.
Not like he kicked a five goal bag against us in 2012.
No wonder you hadn't heard of him |
Well ok smarty, but he has gone under the radar id say. The hawks have been all about buddy, roughnut, and Cyril, booting amazing goals, and gunston here and there. Obviously he has been around awhile, but id rarely heard of him, commentators overwhelmingly bleat on about the hawks big guns, roughie, Cyril, hodge etc.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Brenny
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Location: Westpac Centre
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^ Spot on PNC. This is prob the first year I've heard the commentators bat on about him. Usually it's Bruce creaming his pants over Rioli and Franklin.
Luke Breust is a $£$%^%%$ gun. I actually really enjoy watching him play the game.
I said before the game to the mate I was with, he was our biggest threat. Turned out to be almost true. |
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ANNODAM 
Rebel Heart Tour - The Forum, Los Angeles 27/10/2015.
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Eltham, VIC.
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Pa Marmo wrote: | | I personally would of never let him go. |
This. I also wouldn't have asked him to play 2nd ruck, a role he's just not suited to. |
I agree with these 2...
I wish he was still with us!
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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| Brenny wrote: | ^ Spot on PNC. This is prob the first year I've heard the commentators bat on about him. Usually it's Bruce creaming his pants over Rioli and Franklin.
Luke Breust is a $£$%^%%$ gun. I actually really enjoy watching him play the game.
I said before the game to the mate I was with, he was our biggest threat. Turned out to be almost true. |
So you had heard of him prior to the game?
Carry on
_________________
they can smell what we're cookin' |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Breadcrawl wrote: | | Brenny wrote: | ^ Spot on PNC. This is prob the first year I've heard the commentators bat on about him. Usually it's Bruce creaming his pants over Rioli and Franklin.
Luke Breust is a $£$%^%%$ gun. I actually really enjoy watching him play the game.
I said before the game to the mate I was with, he was our biggest threat. Turned out to be almost true. |
So you had heard of him prior to the game?
Carry on |
Honestly though, was that his most dominating game, it surely had to be, Roughnut does little, and up bobs this joker in the pack. ?? As I say, their recruiting, for a premiership team, is amazing, I will give them that. 
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Brenny
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Location: Westpac Centre
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^ He's averaging almost 3 goals a game. He's been fairly consistent.
Our game wasn't his best, but it was up there.
He's sitting 1 goal behind Roughy and I think equal with Franklin. I think he's 5th in the Coleman.
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Heeeeeeeeeeeeeey, we want some Bayley! |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| jackcass wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | I think replacing Dawes with Lynch was silly in the sense that we thought we were closer to a flag in 2013 than we anticipated hence the main reason why we went after Lynch, but Dawes was really poor in 2012 though. His confidence was shattered in that year after we tried to mould him into the 'Leigh Brown role' so I wasn't completely surprised to see him leave and there's no hard feelings against him going to Melbourne.
Jesse White hasn't done too much to impress me and I was always weary of recruiting him despite what others were saying, but at least he's younger so he can become a better player as time goes on hopefully. There's clearly more upside with playing White over Lynch so I guess all isn't lost yet.
It would be interesting to see if Dawes did remain at Collingwood how he would be travelling at the present time. Would he be a better player than he was in 2012 or would have his development stalled. I guess we won't know the answers to these questions so no point dwelling on it in reality. Dawes helped us win a flag in 2010 but now he's moved on and we've moved on so that's the end of it. |
We didn't replace Dawes with Lynch. We signed Lynch as a FA. THEN Dawes requested a trade. |
I'm well aware of the fact that Dawes left at his own accord after Buckley told him that he wasn't a certainty to play senior football every week and that we signed Lynch via the avenue of free agency just before Dawes left.
However what I'm saying is that Lynch was seen as a direct replacement or alternative at the very least to Dawes and if Dawes did stay then he had to compete with Lynch for that one forward line spot to play alongside Cloke. It was unlikely both would play in the same side unless Cloke was injured or suspension. Since Dawes was unwilling to stay, it meant Lynch was able to come in and play most of 2013 barring a few omissions along the way and overall he did not produce far better performances in 2013 than Dawes did in 2012 so in hindsight maybe going for Lynch wasn't the right move for the club especially after we realised a premiership flag was out of reach for the next few years as we started rebuilding on the go and started changing the list around with some key departures such as Heath Shaw, Dale Thomas, Darren Jolly, Alan Didak and Andrew Krakouer at the end of 2013.
The way I see it, Lynch was recruited at the end of 2012 so we could challenge for a flag in 2013. Naturally, most of us were excited and pleased with the move after Dawes' poor performances in 2012 and the heavy injury list we had in 2011 and 2012 but since a challenge of the flag was unlikely in 2013 and probably not going to occur this year as well I think the purpose of recruiting Lynch is now obsolete and as a result it wouldn't surprise me if we delisted him at the end of the year to make way for younger players in the side. |
I haven't gone back and checked the stats but I think you'll find that overall as a forward/ruck Lynch 2013 surpassed Dawes 2012. Just his effort in the Carlton game gets him that acknowledgement. |
Indeed, Lynch's performances in 2013 stats wise was better than Dawes in 2012 and I do remember the Carlton game in round 2 being his standout game as Jolly was subbed off with a rib injury but overall it's not a dramatic improvement from Dawes' performances in 2012 and in reality Lynch was only a short-term solution as I mentioned earlier and not a long-term commodity.
He was recruited for the purpose of winning a Premiership which didn't eventuate so it's questionable as to whether he'll be on the list next year, but my feeling is that he's going to be delisted at the end of the season. I like the Q Stick and I hope he does bounce back somehow despite the long injury lay off he has at the present time but I just don't think he was worth recruiting in hindsight with the way things have played out but I guess the club needed to take risks along the way rather than being cautious so you can't begrudge them of that either.
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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| ANNODAM wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Pa Marmo wrote: | | I personally would of never let him go. |
This. I also wouldn't have asked him to play 2nd ruck, a role he's just not suited to. |
I agree with these 2...
I wish he was still with us! |
Kind of agree, our tall fowards could have been Cloke, Dawes & White, whilst our backs could be Frost, Brown & Reid. |
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