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Stevo75
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Bendigo
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Well done Rudeboy for showing some common sense which clearly isn't too common on here? Still kind of funny but mostly pathetic the people who try to de-rail a positive thread.
Thank you to all the posters who contributed meaningfully to this thread. You are the true 'supporters' and don't need to trawl the gutter for rubbish or attack our proud club. Maybe you should all p*** off and get a job at the herald scum! |
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Stevo75
Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| I also think a lot of people over rated our list which hasn't helped. We were never going to be good enough yet to make the 8 this year. As for the Sydney loss, we just got belted by a far superior team Happens all the time in sport. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Jez07 wrote: | Hawthorn had Roughead, Hodge, Mitchell (their 3 best players), Hale (their 1st ruck in the GF), Lake (their FB), Frawley (their CHB) & Suckling missing from the GF side on Friday night.
That didn't stop them from putting on 120 points plus and playing with a coherent system.
Best 22 is a myth in football. It never happens. Stop using it as an excuse. |
Ok again your mixing opinions and fact. Hale & Lake have retired Suckling left the club so that's 3 who wouldn't have played last week no matter what
They played Richmond (who have injury concerns themselves and again on the night suffered another 2) and until the last term there was barely 10- 15 points innit all night until half way through the last term.
So really Hawks had 4 players out of there best available side in 2016 against a side with injuries and lacking confidence so your point is now ?
Best 22 is a myth then hey so experts like yourself are totally right in saying that when johnie come latelys like Leigh Matthews say the complete opposite about our side last week ?
Tell me Jez how many VFL/AFL premierships did you play in or coach ? |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| CarringbushCigar wrote: | He played 3 senior players in the reserves FFS
Half of the changes to the side have been based on form.
Wrong only Cloke & Brown as senior players have been dropped or form
Sure we have had injuries and they have contributed to us not being a top-4 side, but how the hell do u justify Round 1?
Top 4 side most pundits/experts didn't have us in the 8 before the commenced
How do u justify the players 'picking and choosing' last week.
This is Buck's list, it's Bucks staff, and even Bucks said judge me on wins and losses.
Correct he said that and it's a results driven business and comes years end he will be judged by it but I would hope those judging him consider all the facts at hand
It's my strong opinion that those who are belting out these excuses are going against Buck's express wishes, and not helping anyone.
Hawthorn HAVE had their share of injuries this year and other years.
The Bulldogs back line is also full of no names yet somehow they keep playing exciting footy and winning.
They don't appear to need time to gel.
I totally agree here. If the one thing I'm critical of is the players don't look like they enjoy there football. They look nervous of making mistakes
It's impossible to prove but in my mind no doubt that a lot of our injuries over the last 3 years are about players not enjoying their footy.
This is not logical are you saying s player fakes a injury or gets injured intentionally so they don't have to play ?
I believe Bucks when he reminds us that our best is still good enough.
West Coast Q2 and Q3 is clear evidence.
Exactly it is good enough but again costly mistakes by inexperienced players and the momentum was going all one way
All this injury talk is for Losers !! |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: |
Ok again your mixing opinions and fact. Hale & Lake have retired Suckling left the club so that's 3 who wouldn't have played last week no matter what
They played Richmond (who have injury concerns themselves and again on the night suffered another 2) and until the last term there was barely 10- 15 points innit all night until half way through the last term.
So really Hawks had 4 players out of there best available side in 2016 against a side with injuries and lacking confidence so your point is now ?
Best 22 is a myth then hey so experts like yourself are totally right in saying that when johnie come latelys like Leigh Matthews say the complete opposite about our side last week ?
Tell me Jez how many VFL/AFL premierships did you play in or coach ? |
Playing in an AFL premiership doesn't make you an authority on the game - Tim Watson, Michael Voss obviously didn't understand the game enough to become effective coaches.
Coaching an AFL premiership also doesn't make you an authority in the modern game. Robert Walls' views are just likely to be as right or wrong as anyone who never played a game before. |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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If you rely on a best 22 getting you into September, you aren't going to be successful.
The people involved at the club know this as well.
A good list has a squad of 30 plus players that can come in and play a role at anytime.
You can only say that Alex Fasolo is probably the only player on the list that has improved from 2015 to 2016.
This lack of development on the list falls on the coach and his football department staff. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: |
Ok again your mixing opinions and fact. Hale & Lake have retired Suckling left the club so that's 3 who wouldn't have played last week no matter what
They played Richmond (who have injury concerns themselves and again on the night suffered another 2) and until the last term there was barely 10- 15 points innit all night until half way through the last term.
So really Hawks had 4 players out of there best available side in 2016 against a side with injuries and lacking confidence so your point is now ?
Best 22 is a myth then hey so experts like yourself are totally right in saying that when johnie come latelys like Leigh Matthews say the complete opposite about our side last week ?
Tell me Jez how many VFL/AFL premierships did you play in or coach ? |
Playing in an AFL premiership doesn't make you an authority on the game - Tim Watson, Michael Voss obviously didn't understand the game enough to become effective coaches.
Coaching an AFL premiership also doesn't make you an authority in the modern game. Robert Walls' views are just likely to be as right or wrong as anyone who never played a game before. |
True Whatsinaname but it would be fair to conclude that having played or coached or both at the highest level for a considerable period of time and been successful as a player or coach or at both in Leigh Matthews case would give you a better insight into the game and the nuiances than a armchair coach I'm sure.
I'm not saying injuries are the reason for our failings as a wise but it must be considered when being fair and logical when debating things. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| Jez07 wrote: | If you rely on a best 22 getting you into September, you aren't going to be successful.
The people involved at the club know this as well.
A good list has a squad of 30 plus players that can come in and play a role at anytime. |
it's feasible you can have 22 best 22s because it may change from week to week based on whom you are playing, injuries, weather etc.
the best 22 is an antiquated notion and, yes, you need to rely on the entire squad. unfortunately, it's hard to do when a quarter of it is in rehab.
_________________
Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Jez07 wrote: | If you rely on a best 22 getting you into September, you aren't going to be successful.
The people involved at the club know this as well.
A good list has a squad of 30 plus players that can come in and play a role at anytime.
You can only say that Alex Fasolo is probably the only player on the list that has improved from 2015 to 2016.
This lack of development on the list falls on the coach and his football department staff. |
Now Jez that's fair points all of them and I can't argue with them at all.
Chris Scott said he expected to use 32-34 players for the season so your argument is well founded.
A good list does have 30 plus players on it but is ours a good list ?
Fasalo has improved for sure but I would add Oxley has improved as well and Moore but that's about it really. And yes that the coach/es responsibility |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: |
A good list does have 30 plus players on it but is ours a good list ? |
I am unsure of the list.
But Gary Pert & Nathan Buckley told me at the Members Forum last year that they expect the club to be playing finals in 2016 & contending for the premiership in 2017.
The club banked on a rapid rise this season when they traded away their first pick in the draft as they had predicted it would be a pick in the 10 - 13 region.
The club believes it has a good list on these factors. I am unsure of the lists capability. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Fasalo has improved for sure but I would add Oxley has improved as well and Moore but that's about it really. And yes that the coach/es responsibility |
Discussion on relative player improvement is all based on such subjective assessment.
In addition to the players you've already mentioned, I'd say Cox has improved, so much so that he's getting a game in 2016.
I'd say preseason Witts showed great improvement in his game and who can say if that would or wouldn't have continued into the season proper if not for the hand injury.
I'd say Ramsay and Sinclair both showed improved form prior to injury.
I'd say Reid has improved this year over last.
I'd say Adams has shown improvement this year.
Also totally ignores the actual team performance. How much more progress would some of our kids have made if Elliott et al weren't injured or unavailable through suspension shifting the additional load onto them.
All too easy to ignore though if it doesn't fit into the barrow being pushed. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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what a load rubbish
There has been no great player development under bux.
Fas has had 5 years under bux.
Playing well this year but the last 4?
Reid can't run!
Sinclair has a thread here about his worth.
Could you imagine if Cox went backwards, that would be impossible.
Witts has shown no improvement this season
Ramsay and Moore are new chums and rarely, as such, would go backwards.
It is what level they reach that would be the most important.
Adams has moved forward a little but who is better Shaw or Adams?
I really must be looking at a parallel team, in a parallel universe to some of you.
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Jez07
Joined: 02 May 2016
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You can't include Cox as he is first year player. His development is due to Craig McRae and Rocca to get him to speed.
The fact that a handful of young players have only improved under Buckley highlight why he isn't a senior coach. He is a good development coach but he has no business being a senior one.
Ask yourself, how many senior players have got better under Buckley. It's very scarce. |
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The_Staunton
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Location: Hobart
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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Gee, that's a shock. |
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