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Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Damien wrote: | | Play Moore against the Eagles if he’s passed fit. We need his height. If he doesn’t get through; season over. If he does it’s a bonus and he’ll be cherry ripe for the following week. We need him and Howe in the backline for West Coast. |
They both played last time. The Eagles kicked 15 goals. Their season average is 13.4. |
Neither played out the game.
_________________
'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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The 22 that should play is:
Maynard Moore Langdon
Murphy Howe Crisp
Aish Pendlebury Phillips
De Goey Mihocek WHE
Treloar Cox Stephenson
Grundy C Brown Sidebottom
Varcoe, Crocker, Thomas Sier
The only way Collingwood wins in late September against decent teams is by stopping intercept possessions inside our forward 50 and applying running defensive pressure all over the ground. The team is as close as we could presently select to the team that blanketed Adelaide. The same forward line would stop the Eagles’ and Richmond’s easy possessions in our forward line.
Yes, I understand that I have left out players that people like. I’ve also left out guys I like (especially Daicos, who isn’t quite ready, physically, for September).
I fully appreciate that Adams, Greenwood and Mayne will play - but rewatching our best football against the top teams, none of them are in my best 22, mostly because they lack pace (and therefore don’t fit our game plan - though I should stress that they could be best 22 with a different game plan) but also because Greenwood and Adams are incapable of using the ball adequately going inside forward 50. If Adams plays in place of any of the players I have listed, he will get 30+ disposals. I don’t think those will help us win.
Our problem is running the other way when we don’t have the ball. The players who lack pace (Sidebottom and Aish, in particular) get the tagging role on the best opposition mid, safe in the knowledge that they will do maximum damage when they get the ball. Sidey and Aish did the job on Sloane and against Freo. Playing Sidey that way completely stuffs up any opposition strategy that involves tagging him and doesn’t stop him getting between 30 and 40 disposals.
Outside that team, I’d bring in Dunn, Scharenberg and Reid, if they were fit. I’d select Moore - but only if he is so right that there is no doubt he’ll finish the game because playing one short is death to our style of play. I would also consider Greenwood for a tagging role against big, slower mids and possibly against Martin (but I don’t really know what Plan B is when he gets goalside of Greenwood, hence my doubts).
Those who are about to criticise a team selection containing Brown and Crocker should have a look at how they turned the tap off against Adelaide before getting too excited. I have them in, in substance, for Greenwood and Mayne. I keep Sier over Adams if Treloar is fit. |
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Raw Hammer
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Location: The Gutter
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Hang on...you don’t have Taylor Adams in your best 22 for these finals? Is this a shit stir?
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Est. 2002 |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Raw Hammer wrote: | | Hang on...you don’t have Taylor Adams in your best 22 for these finals? Is this a shit stir? |
Why don’t you read the explanation? And, no, it’s not. Rewatch the second Richmond game and get back to me. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Raw Hammer wrote: | | Hang on...you don’t have Taylor Adams in your best 22 for these finals? Is this a shit stir? |
Why don’t you read the explanation? And, no, it’s not. Rewatch the second Richmond game and get back to me. |
Well the other way to win a game of footy against good opposition, is by winning the ball first. For that left field idea, you might want to start by picking a player who gets it around 30 times a game.
Then on the odd occasion when he does turn it over, you might also want a bloke who leads our tackle count every week ( generalised exaggeration ) to give us an opportunity to win it back.
Hang on, we have that and it’s the same player wrapped in one.
Not only does Adams play but he may yet be our next future captain. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Sir Alan of Didak wrote: | Week 1 Finals:
In: Howe, Appleby
Out: Oxley, Murphy
Week 3 Finals:
In: Treloar, Moore
Out: Appleby, Madgen |
Yeah I’m not keen on playing Moore. I don’t know. Can we have an operating team on the boundary line to sew on a new leg or whatever. |
I'm also in the 'not keen' on playing Moore camp - we just can't afford for him to break down mid match |
And chances are he will!
Have a look at his 8 game season;
Round 1 - Hurts his achillies and doesn't finish the game. LOSS TO HAWKS 34 points
Round 2 - Does his hammy early and leaves us 2 (broomhead leg) rotations short... misses 6 weeks LOSS TO GWS by 16 points
Round 7 - plays Brisbane with little impact (5 touches) WIN by 7 points
Round 8 - does his hammy early (3 touches) 2 (philips ko) rotations short again... misses 7 weeks- LOSS TO CATS by 19 points.
Round 17 - was actually looking ok v wiggles (14 touches & 6 marks) but hurts his finger again pretty early. LOSS TO WCE by 35 points
Round 18 - Hurts his hammy (0 touches) BEAT NORTH by 70 odd points
Round 19 - Gets 12 touches & 5 marks v Richmond - we lost Howe early & Shaz does his Knee LOSS TO TIGERS by 28 points
Round 20 - does his hammy early (3 touches) LOSS TO SWANS by 2 points
Averaging 7 touches, 3 marks and 1 tackle.
If he was a racehorse he'd be doing kiddie rides at the fair by now.
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count.
Last edited by Skids on Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:14 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Raw Hammer
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Location: The Gutter
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Raw Hammer wrote: | | Hang on...you don’t have Taylor Adams in your best 22 for these finals? Is this a shit stir? |
Why don’t you read the explanation? And, no, it’s not. Rewatch the second Richmond game and get back to me. |
I read the explanation. I’m one of Taylor’s biggest critics, but geez, in a final, on the road, he’s the exact type of a guy you need under the packs. He’s minimised his risky kicks the second half of the year and has improved his disposal (as ugly as his ball drop is) markedly.
C’mon now, drop Adams from a road final? Laughable.
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Est. 2002 |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Raw Hammer wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Raw Hammer wrote: | | Hang on...you don’t have Taylor Adams in your best 22 for these finals? Is this a shit stir? |
Why don’t you read the explanation? And, no, it’s not. Rewatch the second Richmond game and get back to me. |
I read the explanation. I’m one of Taylor’s biggest critics, but geez, in a final, on the road, he’s the exact type of a guy you need under the packs. He’s minimised his risky kicks the second half of the year and has improved his disposal (as ugly as his ball drop is) markedly.
C’mon now, drop Adams from a road final? Laughable. |
It won't happen, he is a bull.
Greenwood has been sensational, especially in our crunch games, he'll more than likely get Shuey.
And Moore.... well, you wouldn't name him in your worst enemies side, simply can't run out a game. If ever there was someone in need of a lengthy spell, this is the man.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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I accept it won’t happen. But, really, what’s the point of a thread that guesses the team the Coach might put onto the park? We can just wait and see who gets named. What I tried to do was have a look at the lineup we put on the park that played our best football for the year and work out what I liked and didn’t like about it, rewatching that game.
As for Adams, i’ve given him votes in a number of games. I’m not saying he isn’t a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he improves us within n the present game plan. His stats for the year are an interesting read. It doesn’t seem to matter whether he gets a lot of the ball or gets a little, whether he lays a lot of tackles or a few. If Pendlebury or Sidebottom has a bad day, we probably lose. I’m not really sure that it matters what Adam does or whether he plays - we seem to be about as likely to win if he has a poor day as if he has a good one. He’ll play finals and get 28 to 32 disposals per game but it doesn’t look to me like it matters against the good teams.
Does anyone have a viable argument they’d like to make to the contrary? The statistics tell me directly that we are better with WHE in the side. I’m not satisfied that the stats tell me anything about Adams that indicates he is important to is structurally.
I was hoping to generate some intelligent discussion with a controversial but respectful view. Alternatively, we can just go back to discussing why Langdon is our most important back six player. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | I accept it won’t happen. But, really, what’s the point of a thread that guesses the team the Coach might put onto the park? We can just wait and see who gets named. What I tried to do was have a look at the lineup we put on the park that played our best football for the year and work out what I liked and didn’t like about it, rewatching that game.
As for Adams, i’ve given him votes in a number of games. I’m not saying he isn’t a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he improves us within n the present game plan. His stats for the year are an interesting read. It doesn’t seem to matter whether he gets a lot of the ball or gets a little, whether he lays a lot of tackles or a few. If Pendlebury or Sidebottom has a bad day, we probably lose. I’m not really sure that it matters what Adam does or whether he plays - we seem to be about as likely to win if he has a poor day as if he has a good one. He’ll play finals and get 28 to 32 disposals per game but it doesn’t look to me like it matters against the good teams.
Does anyone have a viable argument they’d like to make to the contrary? The statistics tell me directly that we are better with WHE in the side. I’m not satisfied that the stats tell me anything about Adams that indicates he is important to is structurally.
I was hoping to generate some intelligent discussion with a controversial but respectful view. Alternatively, we can just go back to discussing why Langdon is our most important back six player. |
Ok, now I see where you’re coming from, I will play the game.
Why would you reference one game against the Crows when deciding to choose Brown and Crocker ?
Maybe of more relevance, is Crockers last game in the seniors when he picked up an underwhelming 8 touches against THE EAGLES. |
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Bleedblackanwhite
Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Location: Gold Coast
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| Raw Hammer wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Raw Hammer wrote: | | Hang on...you don’t have Taylor Adams in your best 22 for these finals? Is this a shit stir? |
Why don’t you read the explanation? And, no, it’s not. Rewatch the second Richmond game and get back to me. |
I read the explanation. I’m one of Taylor’s biggest critics, but geez, in a final, on the road, he’s the exact type of a guy you need under the packs. He’s minimised his risky kicks the second half of the year and has improved his disposal (as ugly as his ball drop is) markedly.
C’mon now, drop Adams from a road final? Laughable. |
No, the fact that he backed up with his 2nd comment re Adams is laughable.
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Collingwood forever, forever Collingwood |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | I accept it won’t happen. But, really, what’s the point of a thread that guesses the team the Coach might put onto the park? We can just wait and see who gets named. What I tried to do was have a look at the lineup we put on the park that played our best football for the year and work out what I liked and didn’t like about it, rewatching that game.
As for Adams, i’ve given him votes in a number of games. I’m not saying he isn’t a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he improves us within n the present game plan. His stats for the year are an interesting read. It doesn’t seem to matter whether he gets a lot of the ball or gets a little, whether he lays a lot of tackles or a few. If Pendlebury or Sidebottom has a bad day, we probably lose. I’m not really sure that it matters what Adam does or whether he plays - we seem to be about as likely to win if he has a poor day as if he has a good one. He’ll play finals and get 28 to 32 disposals per game but it doesn’t look to me like it matters against the good teams.
Does anyone have a viable argument they’d like to make to the contrary? The statistics tell me directly that we are better with WHE in the side. I’m not satisfied that the stats tell me anything about Adams that indicates he is important to is structurally.
I was hoping to generate some intelligent discussion with a controversial but respectful view. Alternatively, we can just go back to discussing why Langdon is our most important back six player. |
I hear you P4S... one of my best mates used to rip into me every clanger Adams had, because I always rated him and knew he would keep improving. His 32 touches and 11 tackles v Sydney was game winning... if we'd held on.
I think he has got better, especially the last 6 weeks. his disposal and decision making was questionable, he knew it as well as anyone and from what I can see has fixed it, fixed it good! If everyone wanted the ball as much as Taylor does, nobody would get near us. He's a lock for me and is the future Captain 
Our man Tom Langdon... I'm with you 100% (well 99%, he ain't no captain).
He has held our back half together, especially since losing Dunn & Shaz. He is a ripper... maybe VC
He was the 1st bloke I greeted when they arrived in Perth last week and I'm as happy as Larry to have his signature on my Jumper.
Was great to talk to also. Love him.
There's an inclusion in your side that baffles me almost as much as your exclusion of Adams.... Moore.
Potentially an exceptional player, in reality... does Lee Walker ring a bell?
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count.
Last edited by Skids on Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Pies2016 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | I accept it won’t happen. But, really, what’s the point of a thread that guesses the team the Coach might put onto the park? We can just wait and see who gets named. What I tried to do was have a look at the lineup we put on the park that played our best football for the year and work out what I liked and didn’t like about it, rewatching that game.
As for Adams, i’ve given him votes in a number of games. I’m not saying he isn’t a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he improves us within n the present game plan. His stats for the year are an interesting read. It doesn’t seem to matter whether he gets a lot of the ball or gets a little, whether he lays a lot of tackles or a few. If Pendlebury or Sidebottom has a bad day, we probably lose. I’m not really sure that it matters what Adam does or whether he plays - we seem to be about as likely to win if he has a poor day as if he has a good one. He’ll play finals and get 28 to 32 disposals per game but it doesn’t look to me like it matters against the good teams.
Does anyone have a viable argument they’d like to make to the contrary? The statistics tell me directly that we are better with WHE in the side. I’m not satisfied that the stats tell me anything about Adams that indicates he is important to is structurally.
I was hoping to generate some intelligent discussion with a controversial but respectful view. Alternatively, we can just go back to discussing why Langdon is our most important back six player. |
Ok, now I see where you’re coming from, I will play the game.
Why would you reference one game against the Crows when deciding to choose Brown and Crocker ?
Maybe of more relevance, is Crockers last game in the seniors when he picked up an underwhelming 8 touches against THE EAGLES. |
Crocker played against the Eagles without Cox. More generally, I looked back to the Adelaide game because that struck me, rewatching it, as our best game structurally against competent opposition with a good forwards and good backs. Obviously, the one game is a narrow sample but I don’t really believe that the majority of the games any team plays over the season can tell them much about whether they have a viable structure for winning finals. So, I tried to look at what we did well in a game where things did work. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Sorry, I missed your point about Brown. He was one of a couple of players who set up the Adelaide win in the first quarter (IMO - other minds may differ). Quick across the ground, good closing speed, ran well defensively and used the ball to good effect. He didn’t do that consistently but he was very good in that game, playing the particular style of footy we played to close space and prevent the opponents getting easy kicks to free players. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Skids wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | I accept it won’t happen. But, really, what’s the point of a thread that guesses the team the Coach might put onto the park? We can just wait and see who gets named. What I tried to do was have a look at the lineup we put on the park that played our best football for the year and work out what I liked and didn’t like about it, rewatching that game.
As for Adams, i’ve given him votes in a number of games. I’m not saying he isn’t a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he improves us within n the present game plan. His stats for the year are an interesting read. It doesn’t seem to matter whether he gets a lot of the ball or gets a little, whether he lays a lot of tackles or a few. If Pendlebury or Sidebottom has a bad day, we probably lose. I’m not really sure that it matters what Adam does or whether he plays - we seem to be about as likely to win if he has a poor day as if he has a good one. He’ll play finals and get 28 to 32 disposals per game but it doesn’t look to me like it matters against the good teams.
Does anyone have a viable argument they’d like to make to the contrary? The statistics tell me directly that we are better with WHE in the side. I’m not satisfied that the stats tell me anything about Adams that indicates he is important to is structurally.
I was hoping to generate some intelligent discussion with a controversial but respectful view. Alternatively, we can just go back to discussing why Langdon is our most important back six player. |
I hear you P4S... one of my best mates used to rip into me every clanger Adams had, because I always rated him and knew he would keep improving. His 32 touches and 11 tackles v Sydney was game winning... if we'd held on.
I think he has got better, especially the last 6 weeks. his disposal and decision making was questionable, he knew it as well as anyone and from what I can see has fixed it, fixed it good! If everyone wanted the ball as much as Taylor does, nobody would get near us. He's a lock for me and is the future Captain
Our man Tom Langdon... I'm with you 100% (well 99%, he ain't no captain).
He has held our back half together, especially since losing Dunn & Shaz. He is a ripper... maybe VC
He was the 1st bloke I greeted when they arrived in Perth last week and I'm as happy as Larry to have his signature on my Jumper.
Was great to talk to also. Love him.
There's an inclusion in your side that baffles me almost as much as your exclusion of Adams.... Moore.
Potentially an exceptional player, in reality... does Leigh Walker ring a bell? |
Yes, I agonised over Moore for the reasons you mention but I think we need someone who is a genuine tall in a big final and all the others are broken.
I’m not sure he’s in Walker territory just yet - at least it’s only soft tissue; poor old Lee seemed to lose a limb or two every time he went out on the park.
As for TFC, did you actually touch the hem of his garment? Or did you but see him passing by? |
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