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AnthonyC 
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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I'd have to say on many occasions I disagree with David, Hi David 
On this occasion I'd tend to agree on the issue of them being labelled 'drug cheats'. Derr of course they tested positive and will pay the price of that. Perhaps some people should put themselves in their shoes however. Yes they did something stupid no-one denies it. So it comes down to whether in YOUR OWN opinion that you believe them or not. Do you think they are liars? I trust the Club to have grilled them on that. That's where the side-by-side comes in, I think.
This doesn't mean I'm not pissed off with Keefe and Thomas because I am.
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Go Pies! |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| David wrote: | So what's happened to giving them the benefit of the doubt? You yourself have said that you're inclined to believe the story about St. Kilda festival. As Collingwood supporters, I would have thought we'd be just a little bit more inclined (you know, loyalty and all that) to back our players.
As I said a few pages back, it's more like you being found with stolen goods. In this case, being found with stolen goods and offering an extremely plausible story that people in the know accept. Would that make it reasonable for people to call you a 'thief'?
The conviction they received here (not a 2 year ban for being 'drug cheats', but merely for having the substance in their systems – we all know how WADA operates) is the result of a kind of Alford plea. Look up the West Memphis Three. Only a prize turkey would still call those boys murderers now, even though they officially pled guilty.
Anyway, my point is, it's stupid and vindictive to use these pejorative descriptions when you're not in command of the facts. How you refer to Keeffe and Thomas is up to you, but I'm not sure what good you think you're doing if you choose to refer to them as drug cheats. |
I'm in not giving my "personal opinion".
I'm pointing out how "the law" (for want of a better term) sees it.
And it must be this way - or everyone has taken "it" (whatever "it" happens to be in each case) by accident..... 
And again, your stolen goods scenario - their plausible stories aren't simply just going to believed by the authorities.
They'd have to provide evidence they didn't steal the goods - including proving to police who stole them, not very good for one's health in most cases.
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"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| AnthonyC wrote: |
This doesn't mean I'm not pissed off with Keefe and Thomas because I am. |
strangely enough, i am not pissed off with them. i am not even annoyed by the predicament they left the club with in being two short on the list. perhaps i should be but there appears to be enough supporters who are suitably annoyed by their behaviour.
i am just sad for them because they cannot ply their trade and do what they love due to a silly decision. i cannot sit in judgement and say what a terrible thing it is they have done. i have made far worse decisions than them when i was their age. it's all part of growing up and maturing. at one time or another, we've all made crap decisions or decisions that one lives to regret. no one is immune to that.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| John Wren wrote: | | AnthonyC wrote: |
This doesn't mean I'm not pissed off with Keefe and Thomas because I am. |
strangely enough, i am not pissed off with them. i am not even annoyed by the predicament they left the club with in being two short on the list. perhaps i should be but there appears to be enough supporters who are suitably annoyed by their behaviour.
i am just sad for them because they cannot ply their trade and do what they love due to a silly decision. i cannot sit in judgement and say what a terrible thing it is they have done. i have made far worse decisions than them when i was their age. it's all part of growing up and maturing. at one time or another, we've all made crap decisions or decisions that one lives to regret. no one is immune to that. |
Well said JW. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | AnthonyC wrote: |
This doesn't mean I'm not pissed off with Keefe and Thomas because I am. |
strangely enough, i am not pissed off with them. i am not even annoyed by the predicament they left the club with in being two short on the list. perhaps i should be but there appears to be enough supporters who are suitably annoyed by their behaviour.
i am just sad for them because they cannot ply their trade and do what they love due to a silly decision. i cannot sit in judgement and say what a terrible thing it is they have done. i have made far worse decisions than them when i was their age. it's all part of growing up and maturing. at one time or another, we've all made crap decisions or decisions that one lives to regret. no one is immune to that. |
Well said JW. |
^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^
Good post JW. The absolute angels around here never cease to amaze me.....
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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AnthonyC
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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| John Wren wrote: | | AnthonyC wrote: |
This doesn't mean I'm not pissed off with Keefe and Thomas because I am. |
strangely enough, i am not pissed off with them. i am not even annoyed by the predicament they left the club with in being two short on the list. perhaps i should be but there appears to be enough supporters who are suitably annoyed by their behaviour.
i am just sad for them because they cannot ply their trade and do what they love due to a silly decision. i cannot sit in judgement and say what a terrible thing it is they have done. i have made far worse decisions than them when i was their age. it's all part of growing up and maturing. at one time or another, we've all made crap decisions or decisions that one lives to regret. no one is immune to that. |
I also agree JW, pissed maybe not specifically at them, but at how their actions have had a flow-on affect, even to 'supporters' on this site.
In reflection, yes, sorry for them because I can see how it would feel to be in their shoes. But as a supporter of this Club, they owe us all to make up for their 'mistake'. They can't be let off scott-free, and the 2-year suspension isn't making up to Collingwood. I truly hope they can make it back and re-pay any faith that may be shown.
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Go Pies! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Oh goody, joy is joy, let's all have a group hug. We just lost 5/6, we should have won at least two of them, with another experienced tall defender, we probably would have! But that's okay, who needs finals anyway? Footy isnt about winning premierships, after all the AFL has made it clear they want to spread them around, look how many they have handed to sydnee and the Brions! Why don't we just draw straws and take in in turns?
Look on the bright side, the boys can get mad Monday out of the way nice and quickly, and settle down with a few illicit substances and watch someone else win the $£$%^%%$ grand final!
So funny reading the poster boy comments about these two players who haven't performed for us all season, then look back on the comments about good solid players training their guys out, trying their hardest on the field, even when it's all so obviously over, just check out the game day thread, jarred Blair, Alex fasolo, gees, even Cloke, come on down! Silly boys, do some drugs, then you won't get called ever foul name under the sun, hell they might even make you a welcome back banner!
Side by side is a two way street.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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^ woe is you. no one ever said they were poster boys. no one ever said they did the right thing. they know they have done a silly thing. they know they have let down themselves, their families, their team mates, the club and supporters. they know they need to redeem themselves in the eyes of so many.
some of us simply do not hold a deep seated resentment towards their actions.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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No worries, guess your happy to wait another 5 years for a grand final appearance!
By the way, I'm not saying turn our backs on them, I'm saying make them earn it. It's what I've said all along. Seems it's either hippy hugs or the firing squad!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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If you think Thomas and Keeffe would have enabled us to make the GF you have more problems then they do.
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kill for collingwood! |
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Woods 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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| roar wrote: | | If you think Thomas and Keeffe would have enabled us to make the GF you have more problems then they do. |
May be so, but the drugs scandal that hit Collingwood coincided with our post-bye form slump.
If Thomas and Keefe hadn't got busted things might be looking a lot better for Collingwood right now. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Woods wrote: | | roar wrote: | | If you think Thomas and Keeffe would have enabled us to make the GF you have more problems then they do. |
May be so, but the drugs scandal that hit Collingwood coincided with our post-bye form slump.
If Thomas and Keefe hadn't got busted things might be looking a lot better for Collingwood right now. |
Not true. The two lads were busted on the eve of the season, which is why neither played a single game. |
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Woods
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Woods wrote: | | roar wrote: | | If you think Thomas and Keeffe would have enabled us to make the GF you have more problems then they do. |
May be so, but the drugs scandal that hit Collingwood coincided with our post-bye form slump.
If Thomas and Keefe hadn't got busted things might be looking a lot better for Collingwood right now. |
Not true. The two lads were busted on the eve of the season, which is why neither played a single game. |
Yes, you're right. My bad. Apologies. |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| think positive wrote: | No worries, guess your happy to wait another 5 years for a grand final appearance!
By the way, I'm not saying turn our backs on them, I'm saying make them earn it. It's what I've said all along. Seems it's either hippy hugs or the firing squad! |
outside of 2010-2011 waiting long periods for a grand final appearance is nothing new to collingwood supporters.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| John Wren wrote: | | outside of 2010-2011 waiting long periods for a grand final appearance is nothing new to collingwood supporters. |
Exactly, was thinking about just that over the weekend!
My first ever flag (after waiting 27 years) was in 1990, and then had a 20 year wait until 2010. I guess that’s how we leant to be really patient. However in this instant coffee society of ours, supporters can’t even wait 5-6 years for a team to develop properly and want snap-bang instant success.
Better to go buy a bloody scratchy ticket and try your luck there instead of being an impatient Collingwood supporter I'm guessing it is the newbies or Gen Y types used to instantaneous results that are the most impatient here on Nick's but then again, I'm not too sure about that.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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