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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I just googled the story, see she's looking to play in the local NBL1 league which is the level below WNBL. It's a semi pro league, players are looking to get picked up by teams in the WNBL.
I absolutely get where you're coming from Jo, and in most cases I'd agree, but like I said I could be convinced that this was OK.
I'm a hard no in individual sport or physical contact team sport like AFL or Rugby.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | I just googled the story, see she's looking to play in the local NBL1 league which is the level below WNBL. It's a semi pro league, players are looking to get picked up by teams in the WNBL.
I absolutely get where you're coming from Jo, and in most cases I'd agree, but like I said I could be convinced that this was OK.
I'm a hard no in individual sport or physical contact team sport like AFL or Rugby. |
basketball is a very full on contact sport!
pity for the genuine bona fida always a woman who has worked her arse off and trained for years who will miss out on the glory, fun and pay packet.
its a hard no from me and always will be.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Basketball is actually one sport where I could be convinced it's OK for Trans women to play againt biological women.
There's already freaks of nature playing in both male and female comps in the USA, and basketball is (theoretically) a non-contact sport so any size and strength advantage is essentially nullified and it comes back to skill. |
nope, no exceptions.
i played a fair bit of basketball, and mixed i lasted 2 games, not worth dying!! even mixed netball is rough as hell.
but there can be no exceptions, either they get their own comp up and running, or they play against their birth sex, whether they have their bits or not
funny, how many women turned men are hanging out to play with the boys?
its not fair to women,
it will put girls off sport,
end of story.
yes someone gets their feelings hurt, but in this male dominated world its about time women got a fair go. and no, for the majority of situations they dont, not really. its always a token effort, |
You call it token that females play best of 3 sets and get paid the same as men who play best of 5 sets in grand slam tennis? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | I just googled the story, see she's looking to play in the local NBL1 league which is the level below WNBL. It's a semi pro league, players are looking to get picked up by teams in the WNBL.
I absolutely get where you're coming from Jo, and in most cases I'd agree, but like I said I could be convinced that this was OK.
I'm a hard no in individual sport or physical contact team sport like AFL or Rugby. |
basketball is a very full on contact sport!
pity for the genuine bona fida always a woman who has worked her arse off and trained for years who will miss out on the glory, fun and pay packet.
its a hard no from me and always will be. |
Fair enough, I never played, but think of it this way.
IF this athlete has any physical advantage, it won't be as much as some of the women who play WNBL or WNBA, there's some huge women playing in the US (Liz Cambage is 6'9"). Playing against her in the semi-pro league would be good grounding for players coming through.
Watching Sabrina Frederick on SAS Australia made me re-think my objection to trans women playing team sport. She's 6 foot, 100kg, and could go toe to toe with the honey badger with the boxing gloves on. If she can play AFLW without breaking any opposition player in half, Hannah Mouncey (Who Sabrina would have put in hospital if they ever went against each other) could have too.
I completely endorse boxing's stance earlier in the thread, but I'm leaning toward there are situations where it could work.
eg.
Cricket - No
Beach Volleyball - maybe
Basketball - maybe
Individual sports - No
AFL - Maybe
Soccer - Maybe
Rugby - No
Netball - Maybe
Even in the maybe's, I'd be requiring evidence of long term use of testosterone reducing drugs, not just a declaration of gender.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Balls? No balls? Physical size? You can’t pick and choose
Transsexuals are not and never will be genuine biological members of the opposite sex,
There are sports they can participate in, novelty racing, show jumping, anything on a horse, motor racing etc, chess, etc, where there is no segregation at all.
There is always so one of the same sex who has amazing ability, bolt, Lebron, Serena, that’s far different than playing against someone who has that talent built in purely because they are the opposite sex, and males have many physical advantages, speed, lifting power, the ability to build muscle more easily and quickly. It’s simply not fair. Of course this is a 95% male audience here, you will never get it. Tell me, how many trans F to M have there fern wanting to compete against men? It’s laughable.there are a fair few mixed competitions, let them play there.
Mentally they may be female, but biologically they will always be Male, chopping bits off doesn’t change that.
As for the tennis question I don’t think the money should be equal, not when don’t play as many sets and not if they don’t attract the same audience, because that’s what it’s about after all. Sponsors are there for dollars. Isthe AWFL, it’s often free because no one wants to pay to see it! I bought a full membership for about $18 to get the gear! Didnt go to any games.,
I watch women’s tennis, that’s about it!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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https://www.theage.com.au/sport/basketball/transgender-athlete-likely-to-join-kilsyth-women-s-team-20230313-p5crsf.html
| Quote: | | Basketball Australia has assembled a three-person panel to assess the application for a transgender athlete to play in a women’s team in the semi-professional NBL1 South basketball league. |
Pretty heavy duty panel too. Apparently she's already done a whole bunch of tests, from Testosterone to vide reviews of training to assess strength and physicallity.
Whatever the outcome, it won't have been a decision taking without due consideration.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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No trans to compete in world athletics after March.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
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And children shouldn’t be allowed to undergo any sort of gender reassignment, so there should be no pre puberty athletes either.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-24/world-athletics-tightens-transgender-dsd-athlete-rules/102139298
So no athlete who has experienced even past of puberty as a male will be allowed to compete at the elite level against women.
Interesting quote. | Quote: | | A scientific panel found that even after reducing their testosterone levels through medication, transgender women still had a significant advantage. |
They's also updated the rules for DSD athletes about maximum testosterone levels.
I've come to the realisation that, as a male, my opinion on this subject is irrelevant. If the majority of female athletes do not want to compete against biological male athletes, that should be the end of it. If there are other sporting organisations where the majority of women are comfortable to compete against biological men, that's fine too.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Genuine question: do we know what the majority of female athletes think about this? Have there been surveys?
I think the ruling about DSD (or intersex) athletes is the most troubling. By being put on anti-androgens in order to compete, they're essentially being forced into a reverse-doping regime in order to qualify to play sport. No idea if that's actually in their best health interests.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Over 70% of the worlds athletic bodies voted for it, I's like to think each of those bodies canvassed the opinions of their female athletes.
With the DSD ones, I have NFI of what health impacts there may be, I guess that would be up to each individual to consider their own situation and get their own health advice.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Over 70% of the worlds athletic bodies voted for it, I's like to think each of those bodies canvassed the opinions of their female athletes. |
I wouldn't necessarily assume that. From what I know of these organisations, they tend to take a pretty autocratic, top-down approach at the best of times. I guess I was more interested in what female athletes think more broadly.
I had a look, and in community sport, at least, it seems that most female athletes are pro-inclusion: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/majority-of-female-athletes-support-the-inclusion-of-transgender-women-20220419-p5aehx.html
There have been other broader public surveys done with majorities going the other way, but a cursory glance suggests that women tend to be more supportive of transgender sporting participation than men. No idea how that shakes out for professional female athletes, but I wouldn't necessarily presume that most are against.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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My mate Ryan is transgenger. He's a weapon at Brazilian Jujitsu, trains and kicks the shit out of most blokes.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| Skids wrote: | | My mate Ryan is transgenger. He's a weapon at Brazilian Jujitsu, trains and kicks the shit out of most blokes. |
You've missed the point of this argument and decision Skids. |
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