 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| Daniel wrote: | | The conditions that suit Travis Cloke are the EFL. |
Quite a hypocritical post.
You are happy to label one a Richmond supporter for not rating Buckley but you make a cheap and snide remark to a premiership CHF who has given his all for the club and tasted the ultimate success (unlike Nathan). |
|
|
|
 |
Daniel 
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Juggernaught wrote: | | I don't even know what the EFL is but found that laugh out loud funny. |
It's the Eastern Football League in Melbourne. Local league.
Mate, he'd be a colossus there. |
|
|
|
|
Daniel
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Gonzalo wrote: | | Daniel wrote: | | The conditions that suit Travis Cloke are the EFL. |
Quite a hypocritical post.
You are happy to label one a Richmond supporter for not rating Buckley but you make a cheap and snide remark to a premiership CHF who has given his all for the club and tasted the ultimate success (unlike Nathan). |
Buckley never held the club to ransom and didn't deliver as Cloke did in 2012 and his output since 2014.
You have the DNA of a Richmond supporter as you are blaming Buckley for Cloke's inability to get a kick and be a decoy for Mason Cox, when Cloke is on 800K plus this year and Cox lucky to be on 100K.
Buckley won a Norm Smith, captain of a losing side in a GF. There have been less than a handful of players to do that, one being Gary Abblett Snr. Are you claiming Gary Abblett Snr is shit also because he never won a flag?
If Buckley, Clement, Burns had the pleasure of working under a recognised Ruckman - which MM ignored until 2010, they would all have premierships as Ottens tore us apart in the 2007 Prelim.
Buckley was one of the best of all time in his position - Midfield.
Travis Cloke isn't close because he can't kick gimme goals and a career average of 1.81 is testament to that.
This year, Cloke's average is 1 goal a game - and he is a key forward.
Darcy Moore - second season is better at 1.4.
Mason Cox - second year of knowing what AFL is is better at 1.4
What's wrong with calling a spade a spade, Cloke's career is at the crossroads and I would trade him in a heartbeat, but problem is not many clubs would want him. Too much baggage. |
|
|
|
|
think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Daniel wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | Daniel wrote: | | The conditions that suit Travis Cloke are the EFL. |
Quite a hypocritical post.
You are happy to label one a Richmond supporter for not rating Buckley but you make a cheap and snide remark to a premiership CHF who has given his all for the club and tasted the ultimate success (unlike Nathan). |
Buckley never held the club to ransom and didn't deliver as Cloke did in 2012 and his output since 2014.
You have the DNA of a Richmond supporter as you are blaming Buckley for Cloke's inability to get a kick and be a decoy for Mason Cox, when Cloke is on 800K plus this year and Cox lucky to be on 100K.
Buckley won a Norm Smith, captain of a losing side in a GF. There have been less than a handful of players to do that, one being Gary Abblett Snr. Are you claiming Gary Abblett Snr is shit also because he never won a flag?
If Buckley, Clement, Burns had the pleasure of working under a recognised Ruckman - which MM ignored until 2010, they would all have premierships as Ottens tore us apart in the 2007 Prelim.
Buckley was one of the best of all time in his position - Midfield.
Travis Cloke isn't close because he can't kick gimme goals and a career average of 1.81 is testament to that.
This year, Cloke's average is 1 goal a game - and he is a key forward.
Darcy Moore - second season is better at 1.4.
Mason Cox - second year of knowing what AFL is is better at 1.4
What's wrong with calling a spade a spade, Cloke's career is at the crossroads and I would trade him in a heartbeat, but problem is not many clubs would want him. Too much baggage. |
Almost brilliant post.
Absolutely no arguments on bucks the player,
But I reckon he has done wrong by Cloke. He didn't say boo when he was getting triple teamed every week, did nothing to fix it. And a decent head coach would have got a specialist to fix his yips. Instead he just "expects the boys to self motivate". Well some people ain't like that. I'm critical of Cloke demeanour and efforts, but I'm also seeing where I think it came from.
I have hope for Cloke, but he, and so many others who have great promise, need a new coach.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Daniel wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | Daniel wrote: | | The conditions that suit Travis Cloke are the EFL. |
Quite a hypocritical post.
You are happy to label one a Richmond supporter for not rating Buckley but you make a cheap and snide remark to a premiership CHF who has given his all for the club and tasted the ultimate success (unlike Nathan). |
Buckley never held the club to ransom and didn't deliver as Cloke did in 2012
|
Buckley did hold the club to ransom. He wanted a 3 year deal last year when he had 4 straight years of regression as a coach.
In 2012, Cloke was the best power forward in the AFL. He broke the record for contested marks and the next year he was a bees penis away from winning the Coleman Medal.
In 2012, Fremantle offered Cloke over $1 million per season. Ditto Carlton.
He showed great loyalty to accept unders and any KPF that was in their prime like Cloke was then would have got such offers from other clubs.
Your abuse of Cloke is hypocritical. |
|
|
|
|
Daniel
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Gonazalo, Freo and Carlton would be thanking their lucky stars they dodged that bullett.
You still haven't followed up what I asked you about Matthew White.
Get your facts in order and then I'll take you seriously. At the moment it's like listening to verbal diarrhoea. |
|
|
|
|
Daniel
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
think positive, why have side-by-side next to your nickname when after a loss with a young side decimated by injury, you want to sack the coach straight away.
Now forgive me for being curious, would you not expect to be able to motivate yourself when you are earning 800K+ a year and that is your job?
You think it's Buckley's job to fix Travis' kicking issues? Someone managed to work their arse off and kick a Sherrin within 2 years of finding out the game straighter than Cloke with our club's facilities and coaches.
So what's Cloke's excuse? |
|
|
|
|
Daniel
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Cloke's had access to 10 years in elite facilities, and Mason Cox can take him to school on kicking clutch goals.
Stop the excuses for Cloke please. There are none. Baggage and needs to be traded.
As for Freo and Carlton, ask them if they want him now. I'm pretty sure I know their answer.
Last edited by Daniel on Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Flashman wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | http://grammarist.com/usage/inalienable-unalienable/
I know what I meant to say and what's more was correct in saying it.  |
No. You can have an inalienable right. There is no such thing as an inalienable fact. The answer is in the link provided - "both mean incapable of being transferred to another or other".
You should feel free to admit when you're quite wrong. |
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/unalienable
Focus on this part-"What's unalienable cannot be taken away or denied" ie like the fact Collingwood are better when Cloke isn't playing. It's undeniable.
I'm always happy to admit when I'm wrong. I often am but this time I''m not.
I've got a big, big feeling I find it easier to admit when I am wrong than you do yourself actually. You know like not knowing unalieneable an inalienable were the same thing or that Travis Cloke was a totally spent force as a footballer, hence you being unnecessarily pedantic about both matters but whatever makes you feel happy and superior. |
So, then, where does this leave us.
Putting to one side our respective views about what an "inalienable fact" might look like, if there were any such thing, you seem to have slid back to describing Cloke, rather neutrally, as "a totally spent force as a footballer", which is an opinion to which you're entitled - and about which I have no concern. I am yet to see any spirited defence of your previous reference to him as "an egomaniac, greedy, a liar, or just plain stupid". Have you calmed down enough to accept that you can't say such things about people or do you just intend to pretend that you didn't and do it again next chance you get? |
But I didn't call him any of those things.
I think you've misread or mixed my posts up with someone else to be honest with you.
Woods said that and I quoted his post because I agreed with the gist of it ie him being through at Collingwood and detrimental to the side, without agreeing with every literal word.
I did say his attitude was shit and his dad was a dickhead and I stand by that as Travis's attitude and effort has been poor this year imo (which has been the cause of most of my angst with him) and David Cloke I have very little time for as a player manager/pushy parent.
I don't know if Travis is an ego maniac, stupid, a liar or anything like that. He seems like a nice kid to me actually. Greedy? Footballers deserve big money and if Cloke was delivering on his massive contract I wouldn't have an issue at all with what he was being paid. |
Haven't times changed. I recall two Collingwood supporters having a punch-up in the social club at Vic Park after a bad loss years ago because they disagreed over whether Peter Moore was the worst player on the ground or not. I have just stopped laughing after reading the argument that you two are having over grammar. Keep it going, I am enjoying it. But be aware, you are dispelling the stereotype as we are supposed to be semi literate. |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Gonzalo wrote: | | Another premiership player that was an elite player in his peak years has been wasted by Buckley. Just like Shaw, he will be traded to a club with half a clue and will show inept Buckley is as a manger of personalites and footballers. |
Yawn. Do try not to be so ... boring, and write about something else. Your obsession with this angle makes the average pub bore look like a master raconteur.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Flashman wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^Yes, Flashman, you're quite right. I obviously misunderstood what you meant by saying "Put it better than I ever could" when you quoted Woods' post. |
Here's your big test Pies4shaw.
You said I called Travis Cloke stupid, greedy and a liar. I didn't (merely quoting and agreeing with the post of the poster who did). Now after wanting me to justify why I called him those things I didn't you're assuming I agree with him saying that. I don't (never met Travis but I agree with Woods that he's poison to our side).
You got it arsed about and thought I said those things. You were mistaken (much as you were with unalienable and inalienable being different words but couldn't admit to and shifted the goal posts for your objection to my use of it).
We all make mistakes, so let's see you admit you got this one wrong, just this once. |
Now, here's an interesting backslide - "You said I called Travis Cloke stupid, greedy and a liar. I didn't (merely quoting and agreeing with the post of the poster who did)."
So, when you say quoted Woods' post and agreed with it (by saying "Put it better than I ever could"), you seriously think that a reasonable reader of your post would believe that you meant something completely different and that the expression "Put it better than I ever could" meant that you actually disagreed with Woods in some significant ways?
Keep digging, lad. |
Yes, Sorry Flashman, but when you quote a post in its entirety and say that it puts something better than I ever could, it's pretty reasonable for P4S to assume that you agree with the sentiments in it.
And something can really only be "inalienable" if you can be said to possess or hold it. You can't really possess a fact. Still, it was a bit picky of P4S to pick up on it.
Back on topic, I have not yet seen the second half but I thought Cloke was pretty good in the first half today. Laid some good tackles, created opportunities for others, and contested well. He probably dropped his head in the second half but so did his brothers.
I'd have him in next week and hope that he can build his confidence. On present form he is paid way too much, but I cannot blame him for getting the best deal he could at the time. The club was silly to allow a deal to extend so far into the future,
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Daniel wrote: | think positive, why have side-by-side next to your nickname when after a loss with a young side decimated by injury, you want to sack the coach straight away.
Now forgive me for being curious, would you not expect to be able to motivate yourself when you are earning 800K+ a year and that is your job?
You think it's Buckley's job to fix Travis' kicking issues? Someone managed to work their arse off and kick a Sherrin within 2 years of finding out the game straighter than Cloke with our club's facilities and coaches.
So what's Cloke's excuse? |
I don't mind losing if we try, like last week. How does a professional team allow 9 goals to be kicked from less than three metres with none of our players within cooee?
As for self motivation, even sidey has lost the grin, footy under bucks seems to be a thankless grind.
And yes Buckley is head coach so I expect him to try and fix Clokes kicking, treating him like a five year old didn't work, I don't like the naughty corner mind games
And your slight on me, go for it, I'm there every week, are you?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Daniel
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| think positive wrote: | | Daniel wrote: | think positive, why have side-by-side next to your nickname when after a loss with a young side decimated by injury, you want to sack the coach straight away.
Now forgive me for being curious, would you not expect to be able to motivate yourself when you are earning 800K+ a year and that is your job?
You think it's Buckley's job to fix Travis' kicking issues? Someone managed to work their arse off and kick a Sherrin within 2 years of finding out the game straighter than Cloke with our club's facilities and coaches.
So what's Cloke's excuse? |
I don't mind losing if we try, like last week. How does a professional team allow 9 goals to be kicked from less than three metres with none of our players within cooee?
As for self motivation, even sidey has lost the grin, footy under bucks seems to be a thankless grind.
And yes Buckley is head coach so I expect him to try and fix Clokes kicking, treating him like a five year old didn't work, I don't like the naughty corner mind games
And your slight on me, go for it, I'm there every week, are you? |
1) Sidebottom is playing the best footy of his career so I can't see where you are coming from there
2) I think you're making excuses for Cloke, simply because he's been good in the past. His form warranted he be dropped. Buckley had every right to drop Cloke as why should he be in the 1's when he can't perform. Is he 'more special' than other players? The only 'mind games' anyone is playing is Cloke with his own mind, thinking he's entitled to stuff.
Cloke has been at the club for 10 years. Most of that time has been under Malthouse, who *some people* think is one of the best coaches of all time. Cloke's best goalkicking years were - 1 under Malthouse in 2011 and 2 under Buckley in 2012 and 2013. If you think the head coach is responsible to teach a player how to kick straight;
a) you don't understand the role of a head coach;
b) there are specialists to help Travis and he has had many try to help him over the years. Now the onus must be on Travis because if a club can teach Mason Cox to kick a footy straight in less than 2 years, obviously something isn't right between Cloke's ears as he seems incapable of adapting and changing and he's had 10 years worth of opportunity to do it.
3) If you want to be precious and call my curiosity a 'slight on yourself' good for you, because you are the one with side-by-side next to your 'thinkpositive' nickname, yet curiously want our coach sacked after the young players could not execute a gameplan that requires ON FIELD direction and guidance ON ALL LINES which we can't have because of injuries.
It's all Buckley's fault isn't it? Buckley is injuring our players so we can't win. Simple solutions for simple minds. |
|
|
|
|
E
Joined: 05 May 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Unless you guys are all complete morons, i think you all must have noticed that Cloke's body is clearly shot to pieces from putting his body on the line too often. He looks EXACTLy like Dermie did when he played for Collingwood.
He was desperate to avoid big collisions when he spent an entire career relishing them. Why would he do this with his career on the line unless he is physically limited? there was mention of an epidural for a slipped disc and all sorts of rumors about about his health.
It is sad watching the best power forward of our generation (in my opinion - and this does not mean best forward - i recognize there have been other greats this generation, including Brown, Pavlich, Kennedy, Franklin, roughhead, etc. - i'm talking about the guy who could crash a pack and take the strong bull mark - the POWER forward) struggling now as a result of the very thing that made him great. made me sad watching him.
Its time for us to appreciate the wonderful contribution that Travis Cloke has made to the Collingwood Football Club.
Travis Cloke. Premiership Player! Thank you for a great career. i hope your body allows you some more great games. i understand that might not be possible.
_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
|
|
|
|
E
Joined: 05 May 2010
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Unless you guys are all complete morons, i think you all must have noticed that Cloke's body is clearly shot to pieces from putting his body on the line too often. He looks EXACTLy like Dermie did when he played for Collingwood.
He was desperate to avoid big collisions when he spent an entire career relishing them. Why would he do this with his career on the line unless he is physically limited? there was mention of an epidural for a slipped disc and all sorts of rumors about about his health.
It is sad watching the best power forward of our generation (in my opinion - and this does not mean best forward - i recognize there have been other greats this generation, including Brown, Pavlich, Kennedy, Franklin, roughhead, etc. - i'm talking about the guy who could crash a pack and take the strong bull mark - the POWER forward) struggling now as a result of the very thing that made him great. made me sad watching him.
Its time for us to appreciate the wonderful contribution that Travis Cloke has made to the Collingwood Football Club.
Travis Cloke. Premiership Player! Thank you for a great career. i hope your body allows you some more great games. i understand that might not be possible.
_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
