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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
.......and as in any industry if you piss off the people who have the power, you get burned. |
Funny that.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Nothing overly funny about it, just how it is.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
Nothing overly funny about it, just how it is. |
I was being ironic: that you pointed out the obvious (which I'm glad you did).
I was agreeing with you.
The word" funny" has different meanings not always humorous as you know.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I know, it's hard to read tone sometimes, particularly in discussions which can get emotions up and about, so I play safe when in doubt.
Except when I'm in real doubt, then I just throw in hand grenades and see what flys out. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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And now Woody Allen's response in the New York Times. His first & last response on the matter:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/woody-allen-speaks-out.html?_r=1
"......Notwithstanding, Mia insisted that I had abused Dylan and took her immediately to a doctor to be examined. Dylan told the doctor she had not been molested. Mia then took Dylan out for ice cream, and when she came back with her the child had changed her story. The police began their investigation; a possible indictment hung in the balance. I very willingly took a lie-detector test and of course passed because I had nothing to hide. I asked Mia to take one and she wouldnt. Last week a woman named Stacey Nelkin, whom I had dated many years ago, came forward to the press to tell them that when Mia and I first had our custody battle 21 years ago, Mia had wanted her to testify that she had been underage when I was dating her, despite the fact this was untrue. Stacey refused. I include this anecdote so we all know what kind of character we are dealing with here. One can imagine in learning this why she wouldnt take a lie-detector test......."
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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The saddest thing here is that whatever the scenario Dylan is a victim of either a molesting father or disturbing mother who brainwashed a child for her own benefit.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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^ Very true.
Another exerpt from Allen's rebuttal
"...Here I quote Moses Farrow, 14 at the time: My mother drummed it into me to hate my father for tearing apart the family and sexually molesting my sister. Moses is now 36 years old and a family therapist by profession. Of course Woody did not molest my sister, he said. She loved him and looked forward to seeing him when he would visit. She never hid from him until our mother succeeded in creating the atmosphere of fear and hate towards him. Dylan was 7, Ronan 4, and this was, according to Moses, the steady narrative year after year..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/woody-allen-speaks-out.html?_r=1
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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and since you're quoting Allen's rebuttal, here's Dylan's rebuttal of his rebuttal
| Quote: | Once again, Woody Allen is attacking me and my family in an effort to discredit and silence me but nothing he says or writes can change the truth. For 20 years, I have never wavered in describing what he did to me. I will carry the memories of surviving these experiences for the rest of my life.
His op-ed is the latest rehash of the same legalese, distortions, and outright lies he has leveled at me for the past 20 years. He insists my mother brought criminal charges in fact, it was a pediatrician who reported the incident to the police based on my firsthand account. He suggests that no one complained of his misconduct prior to his assault on me court documents show that he was in treatment for what his own therapist described as inappropriate behavior with me from as early as 1991. He offers a carefully worded claim that he passed a lie detector test in fact, he refused to take the test administered by the state police (he hired someone to administer his own test, which authorities refused to accept as evidence). These and other misrepresentations have been rebutted in more detail by independent, highly respected journalists, including this most recent article here: http://www.vanityfair.com/.../woody-allen-sex-abuse-10-facts.
With all the attempts to misrepresent the facts, it is important to be reminded of the truth contained in court documents from the only final ruling in this case, by the New York Supreme Court in 1992. In denying my father all access to me, that court:
Debunked the experts my father claims exonerated him, calling them colored by their loyalty to Mr. Allen, criticizing the author of their report (who never met me) for destroying all supporting documentation, and calling their conclusions sanitized and therefore less credible.
Included testimony from babysitters who witnessed inappropriate sexual behavior by my father toward me.
Found that there is no credible evidence to support Mr. Allens contention that Ms. Farrow coached Dylan or that Ms. Farrow acted upon a desire for revenge against him for seducing Soon-Yi. Mr. Allens resort to the stereotypical woman scorned defense is an injudicious attempt to divert attention from his failure to act as a responsible parent and adult.
Concluded that the evidence proves that Mr. Allens behavior toward Dylan was grossly inappropriate and that measures must be taken to protect her.
Finally, the Connecticut State prosecutor found probable cause to prosecute, but made the decision not to in an effort to protect the child victim, given my fragile state.
From the bottom of my heart, I will be forever grateful for the outpouring of support I have received from survivors and countless others. If speaking out about my experience can help others stand up to their tormentors, it will be worth the pain and suffering my father continues to inflict on me. Woody Allen has an arsenal of lawyers and publicists but the one thing he does not have on his side is the truth. I hope this is the end of his vicious attacks and of the media campaign by his lawyers and publicists, as hes promised. I wont let the truth be buried and I wont be silenced.
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and here is the link to the 10 truths
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/02/woody-allen-sex-abuse-10-facts
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I do have to wonder what all this public discussion achieves in the end. What is at stake here for us, the public? Is it about protecting/challenging Woody Allen's reputation? For me, the only reputation that matters is whether he is a good/bad filmmaker. The rest is about measuring his 'righteousness', and I don't think that's something that can or should be decided by the wider public (even if we had conclusive proof that a crime had been committed).
Is that too glib? I hope I've made it clear that I support Dylan Farrow telling her story to the press and being treated respectfully. But beyond that, unless the law can somehow be called in, I'm not sure what we are supposed to do with this information. If it's the realisation that figures we admire can be responsible for horrible acts, well, duh.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Important to note that they are the author's 10 truths a friend of Mia Farrow who declared her conflict of interest in that article & further declared that she was not asked to do this by Mia Farrow.
So not the 10 truths per se but the Author's 10 truths. An important distinction.
Ultimately Swoops nailed it:
The saddest thing here is that whatever the scenario Dylan is a victim of either a molesting father or disturbing mother who brainwashed a child for her own benefit.
For me the evidence of Moses (interestingly now a 36 yr old family therapist) seems persuasive.
I like a lot of his films - & am really looking forward to seeing his latest starring Cate Blanchett. Zelig is also a great film & I quite liked "The Purple Rose of Cairo" both featuring Mia Farow in lead roles.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | I do have to wonder what all this public discussion achieves in the end. What is at stake here for us, the public? Is it about protecting/challenging Woody Allen's reputation? For me, the only reputation that matters is whether he is a good/bad filmmaker. The rest is about measuring his 'righteousness', and I don't think that's something that can or should be decided by the wider public (even if we had conclusive proof that a crime had been committed).
Is that too glib? I hope I've made it clear that I support Dylan Farrow telling her story to the press and being treated respectfully. But beyond that, unless the law can somehow be called in, I'm not sure what we are supposed to do with this information. If it's the realisation that figures we admire can be responsible for horrible acts, well, duh. |
No, you're not being too glib. That said, its plain enough from the contributions to this thread that this particular kind of alleged misconduct threatens artistic reputations in a very curious way.
I doubt that there would be anywhere near the interest if he was, eg, an alleged armed robber who had been neither charged nor convicted. Kind of curious, really. Neither affects the quality of this work but one seems to have the potential to affect the way some people view his artistic efforts and the other probably wouldn't.
I'm not quite sure why that is. |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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and here's another very interesting read:
http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/02/why-young-sexual-assault-victims-tell-incoherent-stories/283613/
And, based on being a survivor of childhood sexual assault/abuse (from the age of 8!), I'm definitely in Dylan's court here and can attest to the same mental anguish she's suffered together with the anguish listed in the above link.
And yes, I confronted the perpetrators when I was 34 years old, there is no way I could have mentally or physically done it before that time. Dylan tried earlier and if you read the reports the Prosecutor didn't follow through with it because she was so traumatised. I commend her.
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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furthermore:
I have read on facebook all these people siding with Allen, just because he's a director/producer and for no other reason.
Tell me about all those other people who hide it...... Clergy, other rich people, other poor people, Rolf Harris........
and of course, he's trying to discredit it all. His reputation is on the line. Not that he cares about his victim
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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The great big unknown is whether it's a scheme from a vindictive ex wife to destroy someones reputation, or legit.
The fac that he married his adopted daughter has me leaning toward legit, but I have no facts and no interest in researching the situation.
As I said earlier, I'm not a fan and genuinely have no interest or opinion of him as a human.
Caveat, If he is guilty of sexual assault (that's IF) then I don't give a fat rats clacker what the supposed artistic merits of what he does are, put the %$^%$$% in gaol.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Proud Pies wrote: | furthermore:
I have read on facebook all these people siding with Allen, just because he's a director/producer and for no other reason.
Tell me about all those other people who hide it...... Clergy, other rich people, other poor people, Rolf Harris........
and of course, he's trying to discredit it all. His reputation is on the line. Not that he cares about his victim |
Hang on a sec. None of us know do we?
Allen says he cares very much for Dylan & does not blame her one iota. Accordingly, you cannot say that he doesn't care for his victim because there is no victim. There is an alleged victim.
In the same way Allen too is a victim, a victim of heresay & unsubstantiated accusation.
We all need to get that right.
Victims of rape whether child or adult does not then automatically equate to all allegations of rape being right either.
If Harris is guilty then punish him accordingly. Has he been found guilty?
If Daughter Dylan is correct then punish Allen accordingly.
I would still hope we have a justice system & not trial by allegations.
I go back to Swoops comments:
The saddest thing here is that whatever the scenario Dylan is a victim of either a molesting father or disturbing mother who brainwashed a child for her own benefit.
Additional:
Having said that I do recognise how hard it is for women to go through the process of:
1. Being believed;
2. Having the burden of proof with respect to evidence that is not easily accessible in "our" system of justice;
3. Having to face the power relations often considered by many women to be patriarchal in our police & judicial system that do not favour women;
4. In relation to child rape at early age being believed bygones family, having the utter trust that one expects from a father (in the vast majority of cases) violated.
Further, I also acknowledge your courage to face your predators & bravery to go through with the process. That's amazing.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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