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ASADA & the AFL acted lawfully: Hird & Essendon lose

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Warbler 



Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Location: Tyaak Vic

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:07 am
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I sincerely hope that Hird doesn't resign -


I want him to suffer the shame of being sacked .

Then I want the players to sue him .

Then I want him & his feral wife to crawl back under whatever rock in NSW or ACT that he came from , & never be hird of again .


GO PIES
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Warbler 



Joined: 12 Mar 2003
Location: Tyaak Vic

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:07 am
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I sincerely hope that Hird doesn't resign -


I want him to suffer the shame of being sacked .

Then I want the players to sue him .

Then I want him & his feral wife to crawl back under whatever rock in NSW or ACT that he came from , & never be hird of again .


GO PIES
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neds elbow 



Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Location: melbourne, victoria

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:54 am
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Going to be a bit awkward if Heppel wins the Brownlow on Monday night?
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Damien Aquarius

Me Noah & Flynn @ the G


Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:10 am
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Warbler wrote:
I sincerely hope that Hird doesn't resign -


I want him to suffer the shame of being sacked .

Then I want the players to sue him .

Then I want him & his feral wife to crawl back under whatever rock in NSW or ACT that he came from , & never be hird of again .


GO PIES


Golden boys off to the states this morning on another business junket funded by Essendon members.

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Damien Aquarius

Me Noah & Flynn @ the G


Joined: 21 Jan 1999
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:13 am
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neds elbow wrote:
Going to be a bit awkward if Heppel wins the Brownlow on Monday night?


Once the Essendon players get done , I think they should have an official ceremonial 'take back' for Jobe Watson. Where the runner up of that year (was it cotchin) gets to take it from around his neck at a gala dinner

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neil Sagittarius



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:54 am
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Damien wrote:


Nobody blames the players. Everyone feels that they just did what they were told and after all most of them are kids. And that doesn't change if they plead guilty in my view.

I blame the players they had access to the annual anti droping lectures, internet, ASADA, their own managers, the AFL hotline and AFLPA and instead chose not to involve any of them.

The high level we hold 14 year old Chinese Olympic swimmers to should be the level we hold adult males in professional sport to.

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Greening gold 



Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Location: Narooma - NSW South Coast

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:53 pm
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Paul Little Open Letter: Slight problem

Following todays decision in the Federal Court, Paul Little wrote to all Essen don members about the good news.

Dear Members

I have some good news and some bad news.

The bad news is we lost today in the Federal Court. I mean, we really lost.

It actually physically hurt.

To put it in footy terms, we were the Melbourne Demons of legal proceedings.

We even have to pay the legal cost of the other side.

Oops!

So what could possibly be the good news? you ask.

Well, given we may appeal and as were also going to pay ASADAs legal costs, we are announcing new membership categories for season 2015.

This is a very exciting development, Im sure youll agree.

The new categories are:

Queens Counsel- $25,000
Partner- $15,000
Senior Associate- $10,000
Solicitor- $8,000
Article Clark- $4,000

These exciting and almost affordable new memberships, should help us to continue to run the only legal defense fund in the world that has its own footy team.

I want to also personally assure you that the board is committed to this path of destruction we are currently on.

The board will not rest until every dollar in the club is spent on lawyers.

I ask all members to continue supporting the club, especially financially.

Regards

Paul Little

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:14 pm
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From Patrick Smith at The Australian:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/james-hirds-time-at-essendon-is-over/story-fnca0u4y-1227064242586

JAMES Hird has no other option now than to step down as coach of Essendon. If he doesnt then Essendon must remove him.

Hird was coach of the club, in charge of a large group of most young men, where dubious peptide practices ran for a year.

The 34 players at the club in 2012 have been issued with show cause notices. Attempts by Essendon and Hird in the Federal Court to have been them thrown out were dismissed almost contemptuouslyby judge John Middleton. Now 20 players still at Essendon and another 14 who have moved on from the club since the peptide program was running out of control must very soon prove to ASADA that they did not take a drug Thymosin Beta 4 banned under the ASADA code.

If they cant then they will go onto a register of findings and then face suspension. ASADA had previously offered them a six month ban, chipped down from a possible two year penalty because they had been duped into taking the banned drugs and they had also co-operated and assisted ASADA in its inquiry. ASADA could well put another proposal. Any penalty will certainly be backdated.

Hird must walk. For such a damning lack of governance to happen while he was in charge of the football department is a stark and grievous failure of his duty of care. Hird has said as much. In his affidavit to the Federal Court he stated: I believe that if show cause notices are issued to current or former Essendon players by ASADA this would give rise to immeasurable and irremediable damage to my reputation, my earning capacity as an AFL coach and my business interests external to Essendon and the AFL.

That is, in effect a coaching suicide note.

Justice Middleton gave no inch to the claims by Essendon and Hird. ASADA had operated within the law and in the best interests of investigating anti-doping breaches. The then CEO of the government body Aurora Andruska gave her evidence laboriously but the judge said he did not question the veracity of her answers.

The AFL decision to join the investigation with ASADA was appropriate because it could use its coercive powers enabled under league rules to answer questions. While ASADA and AFL investigators were present at all player and officials interviews information obtained was received instantaneously by both ASADA and the AFL. In other words, ASADA passed no information on to the AFL. Another conspiracy theory falls over.

If only Hird understood that as coach the buck came to a screeching halt at his door. If he had only been better advised and counselled not to wage a war against Andrew Demetriou, then CEO of the AFL, and the league itself. He seemed blinded by an arrogance that he could do no wrong.

If he had taken his punishment with good grace, accepted his lot, he would be a richer man to day and with a coaching job to return to. For one of the first times in a famous career, Hird has been hopelessly outplayed.

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Damien Aquarius

Me Noah & Flynn @ the G


Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:24 pm
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neil wrote:
Damien wrote:


Nobody blames the players. Everyone feels that they just did what they were told and after all most of them are kids. And that doesn't change if they plead guilty in my view.

I blame the players they had access to the annual anti droping lectures, internet, ASADA, their own managers, the AFL hotline and AFLPA and instead chose not to involve any of them.

The high level we hold 14 year old Chinese Olympic swimmers to should be the level we hold adult males in professional sport to.


I think you're being harsh there Neil.

The Chinese swimmers were victims too, they would have had little choice to sign up to what was an established system of drug cheating. The only way to punish the system was remove their swimmers.

Many of the Essendon players were there already just doing their best to play footy when Hird decided to go down the pharmacological experiment route.

I'm not suggesting they don't get punished. What I'm saying is that History won't judge them as drug cheats when they were just guinea pigs.

History will judge Hird and Dank as the villains. Bomber Thompson to a lesser degree although it seems clear he made 'some' effort to pull this thing up.

I don't know anyone who thinks the players willingly went out to cheat. Hird went out to push the envelope to the limit and will now pay the ultimate price.

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Jezza Taurus

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Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:04 pm
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Pies4shaw wrote:
That ain't no summary, Jezza. That's all 500 paragraphs of the reasons for decision. The judge only read excerpts in Court today.

Yes wrong choice of words mate! Embarassed

Nevertheless it's interesting skim reading the full report of this case and what Justice Middleton held.

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uncanny 



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Location: Castlemaine

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:01 am
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so the little herd didn't find their way to a liesome home...

Graham Smith:a partner with Clayton Utz and a leading industrial relations and employment law specialist,

"The decision is a complete vindication of the actions taken by ASADA. It is a comprehensive and closely reasoned decision that is unlikely to be overturned on appeal, in my view

"Indeed, the task of an appellant to overturn a judgment cannot be overstated. It is very hard. There must generally be a clear error of law for an appeal court to find that one of their colleagues was mistaken in approach."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-face-a-tough-fight-to-appeal-say-lawyers-20140920-10jqsb.html#ixzz3DrrIJNGB

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uncanny 



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Location: Castlemaine

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:04 am
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so hit them hard now when you have the chance to say something about the culture of drugs in sport afl
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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:35 am
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watt price tully wrote:
From Patrick Smith at The Australian:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/james-hirds-time-at-essendon-is-over/story-fnca0u4y-1227064242586

JAMES Hird has no other option now than to step down as coach of Essendon. If he doesnt then Essendon must remove him.

Hird was coach of the club, in charge of a large group of most young men, where dubious peptide practices ran for a year.

The 34 players at the club in 2012 have been issued with show cause notices. Attempts by Essendon and Hird in the Federal Court to have been them thrown out were dismissed almost contemptuouslyby judge John Middleton. Now 20 players still at Essendon and another 14 who have moved on from the club since the peptide program was running out of control must very soon prove to ASADA that they did not take a drug Thymosin Beta 4 banned under the ASADA code.

If they cant then they will go onto a register of findings and then face suspension. ASADA had previously offered them a six month ban, chipped down from a possible two year penalty because they had been duped into taking the banned drugs and they had also co-operated and assisted ASADA in its inquiry. ASADA could well put another proposal. Any penalty will certainly be backdated.

Hird must walk. For such a damning lack of governance to happen while he was in charge of the football department is a stark and grievous failure of his duty of care. Hird has said as much. In his affidavit to the Federal Court he stated: I believe that if show cause notices are issued to current or former Essendon players by ASADA this would give rise to immeasurable and irremediable damage to my reputation, my earning capacity as an AFL coach and my business interests external to Essendon and the AFL.

That is, in effect a coaching suicide note.

Justice Middleton gave no inch to the claims by Essendon and Hird. ASADA had operated within the law and in the best interests of investigating anti-doping breaches. The then CEO of the government body Aurora Andruska gave her evidence laboriously but the judge said he did not question the veracity of her answers.

The AFL decision to join the investigation with ASADA was appropriate because it could use its coercive powers enabled under league rules to answer questions. While ASADA and AFL investigators were present at all player and officials interviews information obtained was received instantaneously by both ASADA and the AFL. In other words, ASADA passed no information on to the AFL. Another conspiracy theory falls over.

If only Hird understood that as coach the buck came to a screeching halt at his door. If he had only been better advised and counselled not to wage a war against Andrew Demetriou, then CEO of the AFL, and the league itself. He seemed blinded by an arrogance that he could do no wrong.

If he had taken his punishment with good grace, accepted his lot, he would be a richer man to day and with a coaching job to return to. For one of the first times in a famous career, Hird has been hopelessly outplayed.


How the hell could ASADA think backdating any punishment is a punishment?

That's ridiculous logic and would effectively mean no punishment at all.

If someone goes to court to face a crime they committed 20 years ago does that mean they don't have to serve there penalty in the here and now.

If only they could be so lucky.

While I feel for the players as I believe they were unwitting victims that thought everything was above board that still shouldn't be allowed as a defence to get off effectively scot free as they knowingly allowed themselves to be injected so some effective deterrent must be meted out, if not then it's setting a dangerous precedent that others could use who deliberately set out to cheat.

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Geek 

geek


Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:23 pm
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Damien wrote:
neds elbow wrote:
Going to be a bit awkward if Heppel wins the Brownlow on Monday night?


Once the Essendon players get done , I think they should have an official ceremonial 'take back' for Jobe Watson. Where the runner up of that year (was it cotchin) gets to take it from around his neck at a gala dinner


... only for Caff to get in there first to keep Cotchin at bay and having a big old sook, while Pendles swoops in to take it away
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Damien Aquarius

Me Noah & Flynn @ the G


Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic

PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 5:35 pm
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I see Vlad gave Golden Boy a nice little whack today on AFL.com. He must be sitting back on his big fat Greek arse laughing now in Essendon and particularly Hird's demise. Hahahahaha.
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