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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| David wrote: | It's a terrible attack on freedom of speech and political/artistic expression. Despite the reservations expressed in the article WPT quoted, I can't help but hope that satirical publications around the world double down on their satirical depictions of Mohammed and Islam. If this is to be a war between free satire and terrorism, then it's urgent that we throw our support behind the former and don't raise the white flag. There's safety in numbers.
Having said that, I'm disappointed by the fact that no-one has criticised the insidious title of this thread, which implies that this crime can be attributed to Islam per se and not extreme Jihadism. This ignores the fact that the victims of the vast majority of these appalling crimes (such as the attack on the school in Pakistan) are Muslims. Ordinary Muslims are not the enemy; they are on our side in the fight against these extremists, just as these extremists are willing to kill, maim and terrorise anyone who doesn't subscribe to their very narrow ideology (Christian, Muslim and Atheist alike). Failing to understand that will only lead to more tension, more violence and more victims on all sides. |
First half of your post is terrific David. This is indeed an attack on free speech and free expression and this recent incident shouldn't ever stop us from exercising those wonderful human rights that are bestowed upon us from the moment we're born.
I respect you a lot David but to say this isn't an Islamic problem in any form is ridiculous and I completely disagree with you. These men were Islamists intent on causing on destruction.
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | David wrote: | It's a terrible attack on freedom of speech and political/artistic expression. Despite the reservations expressed in the article WPT quoted, I can't help but hope that satirical publications around the world double down on their satirical depictions of Mohammed and Islam. If this is to be a war between free satire and terrorism, then it's urgent that we throw our support behind the former and don't raise the white flag. There's safety in numbers.
Having said that, I'm disappointed by the fact that no-one has criticised the insidious title of this thread, which implies that this crime can be attributed to Islam per se and not extreme Jihadism. This ignores the fact that the victims of the vast majority of these appalling crimes (such as the attack on the school in Pakistan) are Muslims. Ordinary Muslims are not the enemy; they are on our side in the fight against these extremists, just as these extremists are willing to kill, maim and terrorise anyone who doesn't subscribe to their very narrow ideology (Christian, Muslim and Atheist alike). Failing to understand that will only lead to more tension, more violence and more victims on all sides. |
You can and I'm sure if I'd started this thread you would have edited the title!
As for the poor sad Muslims who are not part of this kind of thing yadda yadda yadda they need to open their mouths in a loud combined voice and out these bastards and and show some horror at the terror done in their names.
| Quote: | | The World is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil but because of those who look on and do nothing - Albert Einstein |
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Muslims don't need to do anything. Many Muslims already have condemned the attacks. Good people need to speak out including muslims & non muslims. |
Absolutely, but also people need to stop dancing around the fact that the terrorists are doing their acts in the name of Islam. So many people wanting to redefine the argument by calling them extremists etc but deliberately leaving out reference to Islam.
To those people, get over yourselves FFS, these clowns are islamic and doing these deeds in the name of Islam.
It's a Duck. The fact that it's a bad duck doesn't mean that all ducks are bad, but also doesn't mean it isn't a duck. |
I agree.
I believe I've already said that in my first response to David above.
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Yeah but Stui quacked it better. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pa Marmo wrote: | | One religion says forgive, turn the other cheek, dont render evil for evil, love your neighbour as yourself, and it gets kicked from pillar to post. Islam says, it is a good thing to kill an unbeliever, make converts through terror, and everyone falls over themselves to get it off the hook.....go figure. |
OMG 
Re: the new testament & peaceful Christianity:
From Loonwatch: Jesus Loves his enemies then kills them:
My understanding of Christianity is that it involves two testaments. Now the first is f*cking violent. Soo too it seems is the second:
Once he conquers the infidels, Jesus will rule them with an iron rod (19:15). ....
The good news is that The Return Of Jesus Christ is going to happen. The even better news is that this time Hes not coming to be sacrificed by the world, but to rule it, along with those who have been faithful and obedient to Him. The world is going to know true peace, and genuine justice, in a way that it has never known before
How Will World Peace Happen?
[This will] not [be] by pleading and debate, but with a rod of iron. Those who choose to love and obey Him will be loved, while those who choose to rebel and hate Him will know His wrath.
Jesus will will release the fierce wrath of God (19:15) on them, and he shall execute the severest judgment on the opposers of his truth. Because of this, every tribe on earth will mourn because of him (Rev. 1:7), and they will express the inward terror and horror of their minds, at his appearing; they will fear his resentment. Just as the people of Canaan were terrified by the Israelite war machine, so too would the unbelievers look with trembling upon [Jesus]. This is repeated in the Gospels, that the Son of man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn (Matthew 24:30). All the nations of the world shall wail when he comes to judgment and the enemies of Jesus shall mourn at the great calamities coming upon them.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/jesus-loves-his-enemies-and-then-kills-them-all/
Lets face it, all religions are essentially violent especially the monotheistic religions.
I think Jainism is the most peaceful but that is a stab in the dark:
From Wiki:
Jainism (/ˈdʒeɪnɪzəm/), traditionally known as Jain Shasan or Jain dharma (Sanskrit: जैन धर्म),[1] is an Indian religion that prescribes a path of ahimsanonviolencetowards all living beings, and emphasises spiritual interdependence and equality between all forms of life. Practitioners believe that nonviolence and self-control are the means by which they can obtain liberation. Asceticism is thus a major focus of the Jain faith. The three main principles of Jainism are Ahimsa (Nonviolence), Anekantavada (Non-Absolutism) and Aparigraha (Non-Possessiveness).
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Pa Marmo wrote: | | One religion says forgive, turn the other cheek, dont render evil for evil, love your neighbour as yourself, and it gets kicked from pillar to post. Islam says, it is a good thing to kill an unbeliever, make converts through terror, and everyone falls over themselves to get it off the hook.....go figure. |
OMG
Re: the new testament & peaceful Christianity:
From Loonwatch: Jesus Loves his enemies then kills them:
My understanding of Christianity is that it involves two testaments. Now the first is f*cking violent. Soo too it seems is the second:
Once he conquers the infidels, Jesus will rule them with an iron rod (19:15). ....
The good news is that The Return Of Jesus Christ is going to happen. The even better news is that this time Hes not coming to be sacrificed by the world, but to rule it, along with those who have been faithful and obedient to Him. The world is going to know true peace, and genuine justice, in a way that it has never known before
How Will World Peace Happen?
[This will] not [be] by pleading and debate, but with a rod of iron. Those who choose to love and obey Him will be loved, while those who choose to rebel and hate Him will know His wrath.
Jesus will will release the fierce wrath of God (19:15) on them, and he shall execute the severest judgment on the opposers of his truth. Because of this, every tribe on earth will mourn because of him (Rev. 1:7), and they will express the inward terror and horror of their minds, at his appearing; they will fear his resentment. Just as the people of Canaan were terrified by the Israelite war machine, so too would the unbelievers look with trembling upon [Jesus]. This is repeated in the Gospels, that the Son of man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn (Matthew 24:30). All the nations of the world shall wail when he comes to judgment and the enemies of Jesus shall mourn at the great calamities coming upon them.
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/04/jesus-loves-his-enemies-and-then-kills-them-all/ |
amen and amen, even so, come Lord Jesus.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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"Pa Marmo" wrote:
]One religion says forgive, turn the other cheek, dont render evil for evil, love your neighbour as yourself, and it gets kicked from pillar to post. Islam says, it is a good thing to kill an unbeliever, make converts through terror, and everyone falls over themselves to get it off the hook.....go figure.[/quote]
amen and amen, even so, come Lord Jesus.[/quote]
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WPT noted:
Lets face it, all religions are essentially violent especially the monotheistic religions.
I think Jainism is the most peaceful but that is a stab in the dark:
From Wiki:
Jainism (/ˈdʒeɪnɪzəm/), traditionally known as Jain Shasan or Jain dharma (Sanskrit: जैन धर्म),[1] is an Indian religion that prescribes a path of ahimsanonviolencetowards all living beings, and emphasises spiritual interdependence and equality between all forms of life. Practitioners believe that nonviolence and self-control are the means by which they can obtain liberation. Asceticism is thus a major focus of the Jain faith. The three main principles of Jainism are Ahimsa (Nonviolence), Anekantavada (Non-Absolutism) and Aparigraha (Non-Possessiveness).
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Not refuting the argument, because I agree that literal Christianity is pretty messed up too, but Loonwatch is an Islamic propaganda site that downplays Islamic terrorism and attacks Christianity. It's the Muslim equivalent of http://www.thereligionofpeace.com, neither site is one I'd go to for an unbiased viewpoint.
edit - I would say that there are non violent religions, like Tao for example is intrinsically non violent. It is also non deistic, well Tao is indefinable and could be construed as 'God' but there is no 'God' per se, nor is Tao A god, or The God, it just IS (whatever *it* may be).
Last edited by Wokko on Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Really you don't think so? |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | | Not refuting the argument, because I agree that literal Christianity is pretty messed up too, but Loonwatch is an Islamic propaganda site that downplays Islamic terrorism and attacks Christianity. It's the Muslim equivalent of http://www.thereligionofpeace.com, neither site is one I'd go to for an unbiased viewpoint. |
However, my main point is that all Religions are essentially violent or have violent aspects to them. Christianity is no exception.
But Jainism seems the right one for me. Mind you they'd be shit at AFL, all this Asceticism:
Asceticism: (/əˈsɛtɪsɪz(ə)m/; from the Greek: ἄσκησις skēsis, "exercise" or "training") describes a lifestyle characterized by abstinence from worldly pleasures, often for the purpose of pursuing spiritual goals. Many religious traditions, such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism advocate restraint with respect to actions of body, speech, and mind. These religions teach that a deeper level of satisfaction and fulfillment is to be found than that offered by sensual pleasures and therefore promote the value of abstaining from these common, ordinary pleasures in the pursuit of acquiring deep inner peace. The founders and earliest practitioners of these religions eschewed worldly pleasures and led an abstemious lifestyle, not as a rejection of the enjoyment of life or because the practices themselves are virtuous, but as an aid in the pursuit of such inner peace.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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France attacks are jihad's doing, not Islam's
Op-ed: Millions of Muslims have nothing to do with terror but hundreds of thousands support jihad, suicide bombings and even the Islamic State. So what can Europe do about it?
From Ynet News:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4612770,00.html
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Not refuting the argument, because I agree that literal Christianity is pretty messed up too, but Loonwatch is an Islamic propaganda site that downplays Islamic terrorism and attacks Christianity. It's the Muslim equivalent of http://www.thereligionofpeace.com, neither site is one I'd go to for an unbiased viewpoint. |
However, my main point is that all Religions are essentially violent or have violent aspects to them. Christianity is no exception.
But Jainism seems the right one for me. Mind you they'd be shit at AFL, all this Asceticism:
Asceticism: (/əˈsɛtɪsɪz(ə)m/; from the Greek: ἄσκησις skēsis, "exercise" or "training") describes a lifestyle characterized by abstinence from worldly pleasures, often for the purpose of pursuing spiritual goals. Many religious traditions, such as Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism advocate restraint with respect to actions of body, speech, and mind. These religions teach that a deeper level of satisfaction and fulfillment is to be found than that offered by sensual pleasures and therefore promote the value of abstaining from these common, ordinary pleasures in the pursuit of acquiring deep inner peace. The founders and earliest practitioners of these religions eschewed worldly pleasures and led an abstemious lifestyle, not as a rejection of the enjoyment of life or because the practices themselves are virtuous, but as an aid in the pursuit of such inner peace. |
I worked with a bloke who was a Jain. Indian bloke, vegetarian, sane in pretty much every outward way. I threw the poor bugger in the deep end and while he didn't break any olympic records, he did swim and swam more than OK.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Doc63
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Newport
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| David wrote: | | Having said that, I'm disappointed by the fact that no-one has criticised the insidious title of this thread, which implies that this crime can be attributed to Islam per se and not extreme Jihadism. |
Even by your lofty standards, this is pure, unadulterated tripe.
Just what religion were they representing? Mormon?, Scientology, Jedi?
They were Muslim Extremists, just like 9/11, Sydney & Bali. The sooner everyone just comes out and says it the better. If that results in persecution of Muslims, tough titties.
Islam is not a religion of peace (granted, not many are), it is a religion on murder and hate.
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I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within. |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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I'm not religious at all and believe they are all a cult in one form or another but to me it would seem that Islam is the biggest cult of them all.
I mean it's one thing to go to church on a Sunday or say grace before a meal it's another thing altogether having to wash and then pray 5 times a day to be considered a good Muslim.
It's also interesting to note that when comparing people who identify themselves as either Christian or Muslim the percentage of those actively engaged in there faith appears to be far higher amongst the followers of Islam.
While Christianity is far from perfect at least it's tried to evolve over time and the violence conducted in it's name over the centuries is hardly fair to be compared to what's occurring now in modern times.
While I'm sure some will argue Christians wage war as nation states in the year 2014 I highly doubt there is any significant and organised Christian groups waging war on the non believers of the world like we are seeing with Muslim extremists.
It's 2014 but these animals want to take us back to the dark ages.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Doc63
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Newport
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| swoop42 wrote: | I'm not religious at all and believe they are all a cult in one form or another but to me it would seem that Islam is the biggest cult of them all.
I mean it's one thing to go to church on a Sunday or say grace before a meal it's another thing altogether having to wash and then pray 5 times a day to be considered a good Muslim.
It's also interesting to note that when comparing people who identify themselves as either Christian or Muslim the percentage of those actively engaged in there faith appears to be far higher amongst the followers of Islam.
While Christianity is far from perfect at least it's tried to evolve over time and the violence conducted in it's name over the centuries is hardly fair to be compared to what's occurring now in modern times.
While I'm sure some will argue Christians wage war as nation states in the year 2014 I highly doubt there is any significant and organised Christian groups waging war on the non believers of the world like we are seeing with Muslim extremists.
It's 2014 but these animals want to take us back to the dark ages. |
+1
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I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within. |
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