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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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^ Not really sure what your point is, RR. What do child molester priests have to do with anything? Are you seriously suggesting that cracking down on the 'Micks' would have significantly reduced the extent of the church's problem?
Though I think you do isolate the faultlines of the argument here: the issue of whether "immigrant crime" is a specific problem beyond "ordinary crime", and whether deportation is a necessary tool to combat it. While I accept that troubled/impoverished upbringings can manifest in criminal activity�and this is an inevitable social burden of accepting refugees from war-torn backgrounds�I do not think that wielding the deportation stick is an effective means of dealing with that issue. I also think the problem of immigrant crime is greatly exaggerated.
On that note, "12 year old Muslims" are not marrying "27 year olds". One case does not demonstrate a widespread phenomenon. We can wonder about the extent to which cultural enclaves might close ranks to enable such acts to be committed, but the speed at which the crime was discovered and prosecuted makes me doubt that this was some tip of an iceberg.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: |
Re: the discussion on the previous page, I don't get people's obsession with deportation. Obviously an Australian citizen is tried, convicted, made to then serve their time, and then�hopefully rehabilitated�released back into the community. Why should the situation be any different for foreign nationals? I know, "our taxpayer dollars", blah blah blah. So what? They have to live somewhere at the end of the day, and if they've made this country their home I don't see why they should be treated any differently to born-and-bred citizens.
Calls for deportation are populist rubbish of the lowest kind, in my opinion. |
As this thread has gone in all directions and arguments and facts get twisted and frayed as usual, let me come back to the point.
Ignoring the colour commentary which I think is utterly worthy of being ignored, lets go back to the question of why should we deport foreign nationals for crimes rather than just gaol them? Why treat them different to Australian Citizens?
The answer is simple for mine. They are not Australian citizens and do not have the rights that come with that. They are guests in our country.
When a guest in your home misbehaves, you ask them to leave. You don't have to treat them the same as a member of your family or household, they are not and do not have that right.
This is not xenophobic, racist or populism.
Are foreign nationals more or less likely to commit crimes? Irrelevant question really and the answer can't be proven from any real data one way or the other.
The fact is if they DO commit crimes, we have no obligation to them to continue to allow them to reside here.
I don't see how this could be a controversial topic, it's actually quite straight forward.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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We do actually have some obligations towards foreigners.
http://outcare.com.au/criminal-record-deportation-issues-for-migrants/
| Quote: | Deportation Section 201 of the Migration Act 1958 (Commonwealth)
If you are a permanent resident but NOT an Australian Citizen
Have lived in Australia for less than 10 years
Have been sentenced to prison for 12 months or more
The Department of Immigration & Multicultural Affairs (DIMA) will investigate the possibility of deporting you.
DIMA will look at the following factors before signing a deportation order.
The nature of your offence
The circumstances of your offence
The comments of the judge/magistrate at your trial
The nature of the penalty
The extent of rehabilitation (what progress you have made in addressing your behaviour)
Whether or not you are likely to offend again
Your previous criminal record
The safety of the Australian community
Your family and other community commitments in Australia
The obligations of the Government in relation to the status of refugees (If you are a refugee) |
Note that last part. Deporting a refugee who has broken laws here may actually put us in breach of international law. I don't know if this government has done stuff like this, but nothing would surprise me.
As much as I might disagree with its use, I am not saying that the principle of deportation is xenophobic. The political, media and public discourse surrounding it, however, most certainly is. It's one of the classic 'dog whistle' topics.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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OK, some details need to be considered when deciding to deport someone. No earth shattering surprise there, but that's all they are and it doesn't change a thing i wrote above.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Ugh. It's my native planet. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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Just a minor point...but the country of origin also has to be willing to accept the person being deported...  |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| nomadjack wrote: | | Just a minor point...but the country of origin also has to be willing to accept the person being deported... |
We could try:
1. Freedonia;
2 Grand Fenwick; &
3. Moustachistan
as options.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| watt price tully wrote: | | nomadjack wrote: | | Just a minor point...but the country of origin also has to be willing to accept the person being deported... |
We could try:
1. Freedonia;
2 Grand Fenwick; &
3. Moustachistan
as options. |
This is just the kind of unrealist twaddle that bugs me...  Any fool knows that Moustachistan is not a viable option. It would seriously damage our trading relationship with the Molossians and shouldn't even be considered. Typical of you leftists...  |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| nomadjack wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | nomadjack wrote: | | Just a minor point...but the country of origin also has to be willing to accept the person being deported... |
We could try:
1. Freedonia;
2 Grand Fenwick; &
3. Moustachistan
as options. |
This is just the kind of unrealist twaddle that bugs me... Any fool knows that Moustachistan is not a viable option. It would seriously damage our trading relationship with the Molossians and shouldn't even be considered. Typical of you leftists... |
That might be true but you've overlooked Australia's current arrangements with the Tofu Islands.
Despite being one of the poorest nations on earth without adequate food, shelter & employment for it's own inhabitants the Minister Peter "Unfortunately I have a face that resembles that of a a Funeral Director" Dutton is looking at some shiny beads & blankets to seal the deal.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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