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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Lazza wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | Bad Luck.
We need to move on.
Anybody including the Bulldogs supporters could see that they were lucky in the last quarter that we were unable to rotate any players.
Didn't hear Buckley make any excuses in his press conference for the loss other than our failure to convert our opportunities.
Neither should we.
We need to bottle up our feelings for the return match against the Bulldogs later in the season (revenge is sweet). |
We didn't lose yesterday because of injuries. We lost because we didn't capitalise on the scoreboard when we had dominance in the second quarter. 3/4 shots should have been goals. The Dogs were able to run over us when the injuries set in but they wouldn't have if we cashed in in the second quarter. Away from the injuries, it was a carbon copy of the Fremantle, Port and Hawthorn games last year. |
I always like this "if we'd have kicked straight" discussion. Reality is we kick a goal instead of a point and the ball goes back to the middle and we all start square so who can say if we'd have had the same opportunities or if we'd have been able to restrict the Doggies flow into their F50 under that hypothetical. |
In my humble opinion, Gonzalo is the same old Jez07 under a new nick so don't bother engaging him if you want a logical/rational debate Daz.  |
They can't all be trolls, Lazza. Some of them may be just common or garden miserable idiots. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Lazza wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | Bad Luck.
We need to move on.
Anybody including the Bulldogs supporters could see that they were lucky in the last quarter that we were unable to rotate any players.
Didn't hear Buckley make any excuses in his press conference for the loss other than our failure to convert our opportunities.
Neither should we.
We need to bottle up our feelings for the return match against the Bulldogs later in the season (revenge is sweet). |
We didn't lose yesterday because of injuries. We lost because we didn't capitalise on the scoreboard when we had dominance in the second quarter. 3/4 shots should have been goals. The Dogs were able to run over us when the injuries set in but they wouldn't have if we cashed in in the second quarter. Away from the injuries, it was a carbon copy of the Fremantle, Port and Hawthorn games last year. |
I always like this "if we'd have kicked straight" discussion. Reality is we kick a goal instead of a point and the ball goes back to the middle and we all start square so who can say if we'd have had the same opportunities or if we'd have been able to restrict the Doggies flow into their F50 under that hypothetical. |
In my humble opinion, Gonzalo is the same old Jez07 under a new nick so don't bother engaging him if you want a logical/rational debate Daz. |
They can't all be trolls, Lazza. Some of them may be just common or garden miserable idiots. |
True Pies4shaw, fair point.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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King Malta
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
Agree and even in the case of the Adams hammy you'd have to wonder how much of it was due to the tackle. A bit like Moore last year in the VFL. |
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Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
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| King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
We aren't talking about yesterday in isolation. Since 2012 we have had epidemic levels on the injury list. For it to occur for 5 straight years, it has to be more than bad luck. I hope to hell that internally the club isn't saying 5 straight years of the league worst injury levels is due to bad luck. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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i have not heard anyone suggest that you can do anything to strengthen a tendon. baseball pitchers have learnt to pitch better, harder and faster through extra conditioning. Just means their tendons are more at risk than ever because of the extra torques that players put on the same quality of tendon.
same i fear with knees. the faster, stronger, better we get , the more loading we put on the same tendons and ligaments. So they snap.[/quote]
Tendons connect muscle to bone. They can be strengthened just as muscle can, although not as rapidly. That's not a new concept.The point I was trying to make though was that training for injury prevention is an important part of playing any sport. As an example, plyometric training for basketballers is used in part to help avoid jumping/twisting/turning related knee injuries.
Pitching in baseball leads to RSI tendonitis type injuries which aren't as common in football (forgetting about Dane Beams of course). |
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Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | i have not heard anyone suggest that you can do anything to strengthen a tendon. baseball pitchers have learnt to pitch better, harder and faster through extra conditioning. Just means their tendons are more at risk than ever because of the extra torques that players put on the same quality of tendon.
same i fear with knees. the faster, stronger, better we get , the more loading we put on the same tendons and ligaments. So they snap. |
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Tendons connect muscle to bone. They can be strengthened just as muscle can, although not as rapidly. That's not a new concept.The point I was trying to make though was that training for injury prevention is an important part of playing any sport. As an example, plyometric training for basketballers is used in part to help avoid jumping/twisting/turning related knee injuries.
Pitching in baseball leads to RSI tendonitis type injuries which aren't as common in football (forgetting about Dane Beams of course). |
You can strengthen your hamstring and it's tendon. The GWS Giants do extensive strength testing on their hamstring and tendons. Is a device and procedure that can measure hamstring fatigue and strength and the Giants then load off their training if there is fatigue present. |
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King Malta
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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| Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
We aren't talking about yesterday in isolation. Since 2012 we have had epidemic levels on the injury list. For it to occur for 5 straight years, it has to be more than bad luck. I hope to hell that internally the club isn't saying 5 straight years of the league worst injury levels is due to bad luck. |
I would suggest our soft tissue injury rate has improved, even into this season, if there are statistics to the contrary I'd be glad to be proven wrong but I don't believe it will be the case. I again stress that a lot of the injuries we're currently suffering are down to incidents which are hard to prevent.
Elliot is suffering a chronic back injury which I doubt can be pegged solely on the medical/fitness team, if at all. Tyson has struggled with achilles tendinitis which again I wouldn't be blaming the medicos for. Then you look at a lot of the other guys we're missing/have missed and a lot of them are impact or ligament injuries.
How do you prevent an ACL or a broken collar bone? Is EVERY soft tissue injury ultimately preventable too? I don't believe so. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| King Malta wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
We aren't talking about yesterday in isolation. Since 2012 we have had epidemic levels on the injury list. For it to occur for 5 straight years, it has to be more than bad luck. I hope to hell that internally the club isn't saying 5 straight years of the league worst injury levels is due to bad luck. |
I would suggest our soft tissue injury rate has improved, even into this season, if there are statistics to the contrary I'd be glad to be proven wrong but I don't believe it will be the case. I again stress that a lot of the injuries we're currently suffering are down to incidents which are hard to prevent.
Elliot is suffering a chronic back injury which I doubt can be pegged solely on the medical/fitness team, if at all. Tyson has struggled with achilles tendinitis which again I wouldn't be blaming the medicos for. Then you look at a lot of the other guys we're missing/have missed and a lot of them are impact or ligament injuries.
How do you prevent an ACL or a broken collar bone? Is EVERY soft tissue injury ultimately preventable too? I don't believe so. |
And the assumption is of course that the Pies don't do any form of injury prevention type training like yoga or pilates. I'm not inside the club so I wouldn't hazard a guess let alone opt for the most negative conclusions espoused by some. Unless of course they work within the club and bring some knowledge we don't have.
The spike in soft tissue injuries due to increased training loads has been discussed ad nauseam so I won't even venture there. I agree with you, the types of injuries we are predominantly experiencing are pretty tough to prevent. Our rate of soft tissue injury of recent times doesn't appear any worse than any other club. |
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Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
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| King Malta wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
We aren't talking about yesterday in isolation. Since 2012 we have had epidemic levels on the injury list. For it to occur for 5 straight years, it has to be more than bad luck. I hope to hell that internally the club isn't saying 5 straight years of the league worst injury levels is due to bad luck. |
I would suggest our soft tissue injury rate has improved, even into this season, if there are statistics to the contrary I'd be glad to be proven wrong but I don't believe it will be the case. I again stress that a lot of the injuries we're currently suffering are down to incidents which are hard to prevent.
Elliot is suffering a chronic back injury which I doubt can be pegged solely on the medical/fitness team, if at all. Tyson has struggled with achilles tendinitis which again I wouldn't be blaming the medicos for. Then you look at a lot of the other guys we're missing/have missed and a lot of them are impact or ligament injuries.
How do you prevent an ACL or a broken collar bone? Is EVERY soft tissue injury ultimately preventable too? I don't believe so. |
We've had players such as Adams & Varcoe who have never had hamstring injuries in their AFL careers and different environments do major damage to their tendon and the other did his hamstring twice in 4 weeks. Marsh did his hamstring for the third time also in the first game, I'm not so sure our soft tissue profile has actually improved.
As for Elliot, he did his back last year. He missed a game and then he came back in but was clearly struggling. He then did the preseason and was pulled away from training as he had done his back again, another reinjury. Now he has had surgery and he will miss the entire season. I would suggest that when players are having reinjuries, there is something not right with the sports science team. |
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King Malta
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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| Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
We aren't talking about yesterday in isolation. Since 2012 we have had epidemic levels on the injury list. For it to occur for 5 straight years, it has to be more than bad luck. I hope to hell that internally the club isn't saying 5 straight years of the league worst injury levels is due to bad luck. |
I would suggest our soft tissue injury rate has improved, even into this season, if there are statistics to the contrary I'd be glad to be proven wrong but I don't believe it will be the case. I again stress that a lot of the injuries we're currently suffering are down to incidents which are hard to prevent.
Elliot is suffering a chronic back injury which I doubt can be pegged solely on the medical/fitness team, if at all. Tyson has struggled with achilles tendinitis which again I wouldn't be blaming the medicos for. Then you look at a lot of the other guys we're missing/have missed and a lot of them are impact or ligament injuries.
How do you prevent an ACL or a broken collar bone? Is EVERY soft tissue injury ultimately preventable too? I don't believe so. |
We've had players such as Adams & Varcoe who have never had hamstring injuries in their AFL careers and different environments do major damage to their tendon and the other did his hamstring twice in 4 weeks. Marsh did his hamstring for the third time also in the first game, I'm not so sure our soft tissue profile has actually improved.
As for Elliot, he did his back last year. He missed a game and then he came back in but was clearly struggling. He then did the preseason and was pulled away from training as he had done his back again, another reinjury. Now he has had surgery and he will miss the entire season. I would suggest that when players are having reinjuries, there is something not right with the sports science team. |
Last season Varcoe played more games in an AFL season than he had since 2011 (and equal second in regards to his entire career at the cats), are we going to credit the medical team for that one or just smack them for the injuries he's suffered this season?
"I would suggest that when players are having reinjuries, there is something not right with the sports science team". That's an extremely simplistic way to look at what is quite possibly a very complicated injury/issue. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| You can suggest anything you like but without some plausible basis for criticism, you probably won't persuade anyone. My recollection is that the last troll who started this topic (after the Carlton loss) lost momentum when a bit of a check showed that Collingwood had just about the shortest list of soft-tissue injuries in the AFL. |
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King Malta
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | You can suggest a thing you like but without some plausible basis for criticism, you probably won't persuade anyone. My recollection is that the last troll who started this topic (after the Carlton loss) lost momentum when a bit of a check showed that Collingwood had just about the shortest list of soft-tissue injuries in the AFL. |
Precisely.
I'm not going to stand behind a view if there's evidence to the contrary, but if you're going to try and pin blame on someone for something then you better have evidence to back up that perspective, otherwise it's just yelling at clouds. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Gonzalo wrote: | We've had players such as Adams & Varcoe who have never had hamstring injuries in their AFL careers and different environments do major damage to their tendon and the other did his hamstring twice in 4 weeks. Marsh did his hamstring for the third time also in the first game, I'm not so sure our soft tissue profile has actually improved.
As for Elliot, he did his back last year. He missed a game and then he came back in but was clearly struggling. He then did the preseason and was pulled away from training as he had done his back again, another reinjury. Now he has had surgery and he will miss the entire season. I would suggest that when players are having reinjuries, there is something not right with the sports science team. |
I can't recall Bucks ever having hamstring issues until late in his career. Didn't stop it happening. Maybe there is a cumulative effect. Maybe the other injury issues they've had have given them sufficient time away from the game to avoid hammy issues. Maybe the issue Adams had with his knee weakened the tendon. I don't know. I'm not even a medical professional, are you? Have you seen their personal medical files? Is it just easier to assume the worst because it suits whatever agenda you've got?
If you've got the knowledge to take the mystery out of medicine then please share with all of us. We'll all be so much better off if treatments are less experimental because it's inexact and we're all individuals who respond differently. |
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Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
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| King Malta wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
We aren't talking about yesterday in isolation. Since 2012 we have had epidemic levels on the injury list. For it to occur for 5 straight years, it has to be more than bad luck. I hope to hell that internally the club isn't saying 5 straight years of the league worst injury levels is due to bad luck. |
I would suggest our soft tissue injury rate has improved, even into this season, if there are statistics to the contrary I'd be glad to be proven wrong but I don't believe it will be the case. I again stress that a lot of the injuries we're currently suffering are down to incidents which are hard to prevent.
Elliot is suffering a chronic back injury which I doubt can be pegged solely on the medical/fitness team, if at all. Tyson has struggled with achilles tendinitis which again I wouldn't be blaming the medicos for. Then you look at a lot of the other guys we're missing/have missed and a lot of them are impact or ligament injuries.
How do you prevent an ACL or a broken collar bone? Is EVERY soft tissue injury ultimately preventable too? I don't believe so. |
We've had players such as Adams & Varcoe who have never had hamstring injuries in their AFL careers and different environments do major damage to their tendon and the other did his hamstring twice in 4 weeks. Marsh did his hamstring for the third time also in the first game, I'm not so sure our soft tissue profile has actually improved.
As for Elliot, he did his back last year. He missed a game and then he came back in but was clearly struggling. He then did the preseason and was pulled away from training as he had done his back again, another reinjury. Now he has had surgery and he will miss the entire season. I would suggest that when players are having reinjuries, there is something not right with the sports science team. |
Last season Varcoe played more games in an AFL season than he had since 2011 (and equal second in regards to his entire career at the cats), are we going to credit the medical team for that one or just smack them for the injuries he's suffered this season?
"I would suggest that when players are having reinjuries, there is something not right with the sports science team". That's an extremely simplistic way to look at what is quite possibly a very complicated injury/issue. |
Reinjury is a sign that conditioning is flawed. You can't help when a player does a particular injury but if he does again, it is a sure sign that the conditioning is flawed. One such example is Marsh, he ripped his hamstring tendons from the bone in successive years, he then did his hamstring again the first round. There was Nathan Freeman who had his hamstrings and tendons shredded time and time again. Again, reinjury. One of the major jobs of the sports science team is injury prevention, those above example show they are failing. |
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