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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Pies2016 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | I accept it won’t happen. But, really, what’s the point of a thread that guesses the team the Coach might put onto the park? We can just wait and see who gets named. What I tried to do was have a look at the lineup we put on the park that played our best football for the year and work out what I liked and didn’t like about it, rewatching that game.
As for Adams, i’ve given him votes in a number of games. I’m not saying he isn’t a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he improves us within n the present game plan. His stats for the year are an interesting read. It doesn’t seem to matter whether he gets a lot of the ball or gets a little, whether he lays a lot of tackles or a few. If Pendlebury or Sidebottom has a bad day, we probably lose. I’m not really sure that it matters what Adam does or whether he plays - we seem to be about as likely to win if he has a poor day as if he has a good one. He’ll play finals and get 28 to 32 disposals per game but it doesn’t look to me like it matters against the good teams.
Does anyone have a viable argument they’d like to make to the contrary? The statistics tell me directly that we are better with WHE in the side. I’m not satisfied that the stats tell me anything about Adams that indicates he is important to is structurally.
I was hoping to generate some intelligent discussion with a controversial but respectful view. Alternatively, we can just go back to discussing why Langdon is our most important back six player. |
Ok, now I see where you’re coming from, I will play the game.
Why would you reference one game against the Crows when deciding to choose Brown and Crocker ?
Maybe of more relevance, is Crockers last game in the seniors when he picked up an underwhelming 8 touches against THE EAGLES. |
Crocker played against the Eagles without Cox. More generally, I looked back to the Adelaide game because that struck me, rewatching it, as our best game structurally against competent opposition with a good forwards and good backs. Obviously, the one game is a narrow sample but I don’t really believe that the majority of the games any team plays over the season can tell them much about whether they have a viable structure for winning finals. So, I tried to look at what we did well in a game where things did work. |
Fair enough. We think differently on this one but that’s what makes the world go around. Personally, I think this is the last team ( and on their home ground ) we would want to play. I guess we will know soon enough. |
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tbaker
Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Location: Q19 Southern Stand MCG
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | As for TFC, did you actually touch the hem of his garment? Or did you but see him passing by?  |
I imagine just being in the same building as TFC would be enough to have P4S salivating, among other things...
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I find your lack of faith disturbing |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Pies2016 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | I accept it won’t happen. But, really, what’s the point of a thread that guesses the team the Coach might put onto the park? We can just wait and see who gets named. What I tried to do was have a look at the lineup we put on the park that played our best football for the year and work out what I liked and didn’t like about it, rewatching that game.
As for Adams, i’ve given him votes in a number of games. I’m not saying he isn’t a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he improves us within n the present game plan. His stats for the year are an interesting read. It doesn’t seem to matter whether he gets a lot of the ball or gets a little, whether he lays a lot of tackles or a few. If Pendlebury or Sidebottom has a bad day, we probably lose. I’m not really sure that it matters what Adam does or whether he plays - we seem to be about as likely to win if he has a poor day as if he has a good one. He’ll play finals and get 28 to 32 disposals per game but it doesn’t look to me like it matters against the good teams.
Does anyone have a viable argument they’d like to make to the contrary? The statistics tell me directly that we are better with WHE in the side. I’m not satisfied that the stats tell me anything about Adams that indicates he is important to is structurally.
I was hoping to generate some intelligent discussion with a controversial but respectful view. Alternatively, we can just go back to discussing why Langdon is our most important back six player. |
Ok, now I see where you’re coming from, I will play the game.
Why would you reference one game against the Crows when deciding to choose Brown and Crocker ?
Maybe of more relevance, is Crockers last game in the seniors when he picked up an underwhelming 8 touches against THE EAGLES. |
Crocker played against the Eagles without Cox. More generally, I looked back to the Adelaide game because that struck me, rewatching it, as our best game structurally against competent opposition with a good forwards and good backs. Obviously, the one game is a narrow sample but I don’t really believe that the majority of the games any team plays over the season can tell them much about whether they have a viable structure for winning finals. So, I tried to look at what we did well in a game where things did work. |
Crocker might be a good player for us next year when he puts on at least another 5kg of weight so he can compete against 90kg defenders which is standard weight for an AFL defender playing in finals. Likewise Callum Brown would benefit from putting on about 2-3 kg extra weight so he is not as easily thrown off the ball. Meanwhile back in the real world of AFL finals which begins in Perth in a little over a week's time, all of Adams, Mayne and Greenwood will play if we have any chance of knocking over WCE. |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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It’s a week out from our first final so this question I ask
If it’s one just player in ,that being Howe who goes out of only theses two
Murphy or Oxley
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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Pie as a Kite
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Location: Singapore
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| BazBoy wrote: | It’s a week out from our first final so this question I ask
If it’s one just player in ,that being Howe who goes out of only theses two
Murphy or Oxley |
I'd suggest that Murphy would go out, mainly due to maturity. I'd think the (presumably) superior strength, fitness and experience of the older Oxley would be more valuable in finals. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Pie as a Kite wrote: | | BazBoy wrote: | It’s a week out from our first final so this question I ask
If it’s one just player in ,that being Howe who goes out of only theses two
Murphy or Oxley |
I'd suggest that Murphy would go out, mainly due to maturity. I'd think the (presumably) superior strength, fitness and experience of the older Oxley would be more valuable in finals. |
For mine, if Appleby and Goldy both play well this week in the VFL, I would replace Murphy, Madgen and Oxley with Howe, Appleby and Goldy against West Coast. |
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tbaker
Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Location: Q19 Southern Stand MCG
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| Pies2016 wrote: | | Pie as a Kite wrote: | | BazBoy wrote: | It’s a week out from our first final so this question I ask
If it’s one just player in ,that being Howe who goes out of only theses two
Murphy or Oxley |
I'd suggest that Murphy would go out, mainly due to maturity. I'd think the (presumably) superior strength, fitness and experience of the older Oxley would be more valuable in finals. |
For mine, if Appleby and Goldy both play well this week in the VFL, I would replace Murphy, Madgen and Oxley with Howe, Appleby and Goldy against West Coast. |
No, far too risky bringing in two underdone defenders for a final (not to mention Howe, who may be considered in a similar category)
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I find your lack of faith disturbing |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Pies2016 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | I accept it won’t happen. But, really, what’s the point of a thread that guesses the team the Coach might put onto the park? We can just wait and see who gets named. What I tried to do was have a look at the lineup we put on the park that played our best football for the year and work out what I liked and didn’t like about it, rewatching that game.
As for Adams, i’ve given him votes in a number of games. I’m not saying he isn’t a good player, I’m just saying that I don’t think he improves us within n the present game plan. His stats for the year are an interesting read. It doesn’t seem to matter whether he gets a lot of the ball or gets a little, whether he lays a lot of tackles or a few. If Pendlebury or Sidebottom has a bad day, we probably lose. I’m not really sure that it matters what Adam does or whether he plays - we seem to be about as likely to win if he has a poor day as if he has a good one. He’ll play finals and get 28 to 32 disposals per game but it doesn’t look to me like it matters against the good teams.
Does anyone have a viable argument they’d like to make to the contrary? The statistics tell me directly that we are better with WHE in the side. I’m not satisfied that the stats tell me anything about Adams that indicates he is important to is structurally.
I was hoping to generate some intelligent discussion with a controversial but respectful view. Alternatively, we can just go back to discussing why Langdon is our most important back six player. |
Ok, now I see where you’re coming from, I will play the game.
Why would you reference one game against the Crows when deciding to choose Brown and Crocker ?
Maybe of more relevance, is Crockers last game in the seniors when he picked up an underwhelming 8 touches against THE EAGLES. |
Crocker played against the Eagles without Cox. More generally, I looked back to the Adelaide game because that struck me, rewatching it, as our best game structurally against competent opposition with a good forwards and good backs. Obviously, the one game is a narrow sample but I don’t really believe that the majority of the games any team plays over the season can tell them much about whether they have a viable structure for winning finals. So, I tried to look at what we did well in a game where things did work. |
Crocker might be a good player for us next year when he puts on at least another 5kg of weight so he can compete against 90kg defenders which is standard weight for an AFL defender playing in finals. Likewise Callum Brown would benefit from putting on about 2-3 kg extra weight so he is not as easily thrown off the ball. Meanwhile back in the real world of AFL finals which begins in Perth in a little over a week's time, all of Adams, Mayne and Greenwood will play if we have any chance of knocking over WCE. |
If Mayne and Greenwood play, I do not think we can win. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Well Ben Collins half agrees with you P4S....
COLLINGWOOD
B: Brayden Maynard, Jack Madgen, Tom Langdon
HB: Jeremy Howe, Darcy Moore, Jack Crisp
C: Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Tom Phillips
HF: Jordan De Goey, Brody Mihocek, Jaidyn Stephenson
F: Josh Thomas, Mason Cox, Will Hoskin-Elliott
Foll: Brodie Grundy, Adam Treloar, Taylor Adams
I/C: Travis Varcoe, Brayden Sier, James Aish, Chris Mayne
In: A.Treloar, D.Moore, J.Howe
Out: L.Greenwood, A.Oxley, N.Murphy
We've taken an aggressive approach to selection, including both midfielder Adam Treloar and key defender Darcy Moore for their first games back after hamstring injuries, although this crucial pair they might well be held back until at least the Pies’ next final. High-flying backman Jeremy Howe also returns to a defence that will need every ounce of experience and aerial ability against Eagles duo Josh Kennedy and Jack Darling. There’s hot competition for spots in this fast, flexible, skilful combination, and unfortunately there was no room for tagging option Levi Greenwood, rookie-listed defender Adam Oxley and youngster Nathan Murphy. - Ben Collins
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-30/mock-teams-your-best-22-for-finals-w1
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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^Seems like a reasonable assessment. Not sure we need both Moore and Magden against most sides, but that might fit for the Eagles in particular and leaves us less skinny in the event that Moore gets injured again.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Skids wrote: | Well Ben Collins half agrees with you P4S....
COLLINGWOOD
B: Brayden Maynard, Jack Madgen, Tom Langdon
HB: Jeremy Howe, Darcy Moore, Jack Crisp
C: Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Tom Phillips
HF: Jordan De Goey, Brody Mihocek, Jaidyn Stephenson
F: Josh Thomas, Mason Cox, Will Hoskin-Elliott
Foll: Brodie Grundy, Adam Treloar, Taylor Adams
I/C: Travis Varcoe, Brayden Sier, James Aish, Chris Mayne
In: A.Treloar, D.Moore, J.Howe
Out: L.Greenwood, A.Oxley, N.Murphy
We've taken an aggressive approach to selection, including both midfielder Adam Treloar and key defender Darcy Moore for their first games back after hamstring injuries, although this crucial pair they might well be held back until at least the Pies’ next final. High-flying backman Jeremy Howe also returns to a defence that will need every ounce of experience and aerial ability against Eagles duo Josh Kennedy and Jack Darling. There’s hot competition for spots in this fast, flexible, skilful combination, and unfortunately there was no room for tagging option Levi Greenwood, rookie-listed defender Adam Oxley and youngster Nathan Murphy. - Ben Collins
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-30/mock-teams-your-best-22-for-finals-w1 |
If Moore plays, then there's no spot for Madgen. And anyone who thinks we'd leave Greenwood out of a finals side is wrong. He is one of the toughest and most disciplined players on our list, and has enormous experience. He will be a finals specialist imo. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Everyone has Murphy as an out.
I'was at the game and I've watched the last quarter replay, probably 5 or 6 times, including the 3rd as well twice..... this kid was solid.
I suppose it comes down to who's available and the best match ups, but man, I like the look of this kid.
What an amazing season of talent exposed at Collingwood! We all hate the injuries, but look at the doors that have opened for guys like Stevo, Murph, Apples, Brown, Daicos, Checkers, Sier... the revival of Chris Mayne!
The authority stamped by blokes like Phillips, Grundy and Adams.
Then you've got the tenacity of a bloke like Aish.... geez, I'm loving this season!!
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Yes, I’d play Murphy. He showed glimpses of looking like a 200 gamer. He will continue to improve exponentially between game 2 and game 5 or 6. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Yes, I’d play Murphy. He showed glimpses of looking like a 200 gamer. He will continue to improve exponentially between game 2 and game 5 or 6. |
I agree with you about Murphy but not Greenwood. In a GF its last man left standing. Greenwood will keep going on one leg and a broken jaw if it comes to that in a GF. Moore will be the first to go down when it comes to the crunch. Murphy stays because he's tough and skilled and won't be overawed by the occasion. |
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John LEWIN
Joined: 19 Aug 2017
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Madgen gets a lot of game time on this thread without much analysis. I sat right behind him during the Port game and I got very nervous every time they managed to isolate him. When he had no help it was all over red rover. Fortunately the coaches and the backline were a wake up and provided cover defence in anticipation of Port playing through his man. When the ball hit the ground he seemed lost and played very little if any part in the contest. I don't know if that will hold up in a final with Kennedy and Darling stretching the set up out to the max. Without Dixon Port played Westhof and Grey as the keys Langdon kept Grey quiet enough but as I recall Westhof was best for Port.
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