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The Prototype 
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| jackcass wrote: | | Gee, I guess all the reports that it was a 1 year extension at Buck's insistence were just rubbish then. Are you ever planning on using actual facts as the basis for your rants? |
Probably held the club to ransom for that one year, they said "Oh we wanna give you a long term contract." and he was like "No! I demand a one year contract or I will quit and make everyone at Nick's rant about it!" and thus a one year deal was given.
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | E wrote: | Unless you guys are all complete morons, i think you all must have noticed that Cloke's body is clearly shot to pieces from putting his body on the line too often. He looks EXACTLy like Dermie did when he played for Collingwood.
He was desperate to avoid big collisions when he spent an entire career relishing them. Why would he do this with his career on the line unless he is physically limited? there was mention of an epidural for a slipped disc and all sorts of rumors about about his health.
It is sad watching the best power forward of our generation (in my opinion - and this does not mean best forward - i recognize there have been other greats this generation, including Brown, Pavlich, Kennedy, Franklin, roughhead, etc. - i'm talking about the guy who could crash a pack and take the strong bull mark - the POWER forward) struggling now as a result of the very thing that made him great. made me sad watching him.
Its time for us to appreciate the wonderful contribution that Travis Cloke has made to the Collingwood Football Club.
Travis Cloke. Premiership Player! Thank you for a great career. i hope your body allows you some more great games. i understand that might not be possible. |
You are looking right there E.
I have kept out of this debate for one reason or other. but I don't think that his lack of crashing the pack is anything other than a body issue.
You mention Dermie And I will put up Gavin Brown because the first half of his career was fantastic but after using his body as a battering ram his career went downhill quickly.
As TP said years of being tripled teamed every week looksh like it has taken a terrible toll. |
I'm pretty sure that very few centre half forwards have played much beyond 30, which is why the club did not want to give Cloke a 5 yr contract extension back in 2012. The Dermie comparison is spot on. Cloke and his old man have to face up to the fact that the end is nigh. |
Do you think Cloke does, or do you think we do?
Regarding the 5 year contract, i want to say one thing. It is very usual in the USA for a players last contract to run 1-2 years past the players use by date. We need to just get used to that. Partly it is reward for great service, but often, its just the cost of getting a great players in the final prime years of their career.
arguably, we got Cloke on the cheap for the first 7 years of his career (including the premiership year) and then he got a year or two where he was overpaid. It isnt Grossly overpaying him.
How many years do you think Franklin will be paid after he passes his use by date (he has what 8 or nine years left on his contract). Sydney were happy to do this to get the first 5-6 years (and its looking like it might deliver a premiership this year - they look bloody good).
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| The Prototype wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Gee, I guess all the reports that it was a 1 year extension at Buck's insistence were just rubbish then. Are you ever planning on using actual facts as the basis for your rants? |
Probably held the club to ransom for that one year, they said "Oh we wanna give you a long term contract." and he was like "No! I demand a one year contract or I will quit and make everyone at Nick's rant about it!" and thus a one year deal was given. |
Why didn't I think of that. |
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Daniel 
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
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| E wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | E wrote: | Unless you guys are all complete morons, i think you all must have noticed that Cloke's body is clearly shot to pieces from putting his body on the line too often. He looks EXACTLy like Dermie did when he played for Collingwood.
He was desperate to avoid big collisions when he spent an entire career relishing them. Why would he do this with his career on the line unless he is physically limited? there was mention of an epidural for a slipped disc and all sorts of rumors about about his health.
It is sad watching the best power forward of our generation (in my opinion - and this does not mean best forward - i recognize there have been other greats this generation, including Brown, Pavlich, Kennedy, Franklin, roughhead, etc. - i'm talking about the guy who could crash a pack and take the strong bull mark - the POWER forward) struggling now as a result of the very thing that made him great. made me sad watching him.
Its time for us to appreciate the wonderful contribution that Travis Cloke has made to the Collingwood Football Club.
Travis Cloke. Premiership Player! Thank you for a great career. i hope your body allows you some more great games. i understand that might not be possible. |
You are looking right there E.
I have kept out of this debate for one reason or other. but I don't think that his lack of crashing the pack is anything other than a body issue.
You mention Dermie And I will put up Gavin Brown because the first half of his career was fantastic but after using his body as a battering ram his career went downhill quickly.
As TP said years of being tripled teamed every week looksh like it has taken a terrible toll. |
I'm pretty sure that very few centre half forwards have played much beyond 30, which is why the club did not want to give Cloke a 5 yr contract extension back in 2012. The Dermie comparison is spot on. Cloke and his old man have to face up to the fact that the end is nigh. |
Do you think Cloke does, or do you think we do?
Regarding the 5 year contract, i want to say one thing. It is very usual in the USA for a players last contract to run 1-2 years past the players use by date. We need to just get used to that. Partly it is reward for great service, but often, its just the cost of getting a great players in the final prime years of their career.
arguably, we got Cloke on the cheap for the first 7 years of his career (including the premiership year) and then he got a year or two where he was overpaid. It isnt Grossly overpaying him.
How many years do you think Franklin will be paid after he passes his use by date (he has what 8 or nine years left on his contract). Sydney were happy to do this to get the first 5-6 years (and its looking like it might deliver a premiership this year - they look bloody good). |
I don't think the USA is a country that does much right, including treating its own citizens with contempt.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason Australia and *some Australians* are like ankle biters who will ask 'how high' when the shambolic USA asks us to jump.
Seriously, do you think Travis Cloke is poor and the club should give him a couple an extra 1.5 million for nothing? Now I've heard it all.
I think that's a very flawed way of thinking.
1) It would ruin our salary cap.
2) People who have character and integrity and belief in their abilities are happy to be on a 1 year deal.
Do you see Sam Mitchell complaining who I rate as one of the all time greats?
Did you see Brian Lake complaining?
Hodge complaining?
Do you see Brendon Bolton complaining who is employed by Carlton and NOT on any contract?
3) Why bother bringing Sydney and what they do into the argument? They're a franchise club of the AFL and can do whatever they like.
- academies (while also being able to access father/sons), inflated salary cap (which other club would be able to buy Tippett after losing a G.F. and the Franklin the year after after winning the GF?
- don't even bother talking about Sydney, as there are different sets of rules that apply to Sydney, G.W.S., Gold Coast and to a lesser degree Brisbane - than all other clubs. |
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Daniel
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
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| E wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | E wrote: | Unless you guys are all complete morons, i think you all must have noticed that Cloke's body is clearly shot to pieces from putting his body on the line too often. He looks EXACTLy like Dermie did when he played for Collingwood.
He was desperate to avoid big collisions when he spent an entire career relishing them. Why would he do this with his career on the line unless he is physically limited? there was mention of an epidural for a slipped disc and all sorts of rumors about about his health.
It is sad watching the best power forward of our generation (in my opinion - and this does not mean best forward - i recognize there have been other greats this generation, including Brown, Pavlich, Kennedy, Franklin, roughhead, etc. - i'm talking about the guy who could crash a pack and take the strong bull mark - the POWER forward) struggling now as a result of the very thing that made him great. made me sad watching him.
Its time for us to appreciate the wonderful contribution that Travis Cloke has made to the Collingwood Football Club.
Travis Cloke. Premiership Player! Thank you for a great career. i hope your body allows you some more great games. i understand that might not be possible. |
You are looking right there E.
I have kept out of this debate for one reason or other. but I don't think that his lack of crashing the pack is anything other than a body issue.
You mention Dermie And I will put up Gavin Brown because the first half of his career was fantastic but after using his body as a battering ram his career went downhill quickly.
As TP said years of being tripled teamed every week looksh like it has taken a terrible toll. |
I'm pretty sure that very few centre half forwards have played much beyond 30, which is why the club did not want to give Cloke a 5 yr contract extension back in 2012. The Dermie comparison is spot on. Cloke and his old man have to face up to the fact that the end is nigh. |
Do you think Cloke does, or do you think we do?
Regarding the 5 year contract, i want to say one thing. It is very usual in the USA for a players last contract to run 1-2 years past the players use by date. We need to just get used to that. Partly it is reward for great service, but often, its just the cost of getting a great players in the final prime years of their career.
arguably, we got Cloke on the cheap for the first 7 years of his career (including the premiership year) and then he got a year or two where he was overpaid. It isnt Grossly overpaying him.
How many years do you think Franklin will be paid after he passes his use by date (he has what 8 or nine years left on his contract). Sydney were happy to do this to get the first 5-6 years (and its looking like it might deliver a premiership this year - they look bloody good). |
I don't think the USA is a country that does much right, including treating its own citizens with contempt.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason Australia and *some Australians* are like ankle biters who will ask 'how high' when the shambolic USA asks us to jump.
Seriously, do you think Travis Cloke is poor and the club should give him a couple an extra 1.5 million for nothing? Now I've heard it all.
I think that's a very flawed way of thinking.
1) It would ruin our salary cap.
2) People who have character and integrity and belief in their abilities are happy to be on a 1 year deal.
Do you see Sam Mitchell complaining who I rate as one of the all time greats?
Did you see Brian Lake complaining?
Hodge complaining?
Do you see Brendon Bolton complaining who is employed by Carlton and NOT on any contract?
3) Why bother bringing Sydney and what they do into the argument? They're a franchise club of the AFL and can do whatever they like.
- academies (while also being able to access father/sons), inflated salary cap (which other club would be able to buy Tippett after losing a G.F. and the Franklin the year after after winning the GF?
- don't even bother talking about Sydney, as there are different sets of rules that apply to Sydney, G.W.S., Gold Coast and to a lesser degree Brisbane - than all other clubs. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| Daniel wrote: | | E wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | E wrote: | Unless you guys are all complete morons, i think you all must have noticed that Cloke's body is clearly shot to pieces from putting his body on the line too often. He looks EXACTLy like Dermie did when he played for Collingwood.
He was desperate to avoid big collisions when he spent an entire career relishing them. Why would he do this with his career on the line unless he is physically limited? there was mention of an epidural for a slipped disc and all sorts of rumors about about his health.
It is sad watching the best power forward of our generation (in my opinion - and this does not mean best forward - i recognize there have been other greats this generation, including Brown, Pavlich, Kennedy, Franklin, roughhead, etc. - i'm talking about the guy who could crash a pack and take the strong bull mark - the POWER forward) struggling now as a result of the very thing that made him great. made me sad watching him.
Its time for us to appreciate the wonderful contribution that Travis Cloke has made to the Collingwood Football Club.
Travis Cloke. Premiership Player! Thank you for a great career. i hope your body allows you some more great games. i understand that might not be possible. |
You are looking right there E.
I have kept out of this debate for one reason or other. but I don't think that his lack of crashing the pack is anything other than a body issue.
You mention Dermie And I will put up Gavin Brown because the first half of his career was fantastic but after using his body as a battering ram his career went downhill quickly.
As TP said years of being tripled teamed every week looksh like it has taken a terrible toll. |
I'm pretty sure that very few centre half forwards have played much beyond 30, which is why the club did not want to give Cloke a 5 yr contract extension back in 2012. The Dermie comparison is spot on. Cloke and his old man have to face up to the fact that the end is nigh. |
Do you think Cloke does, or do you think we do?
Regarding the 5 year contract, i want to say one thing. It is very usual in the USA for a players last contract to run 1-2 years past the players use by date. We need to just get used to that. Partly it is reward for great service, but often, its just the cost of getting a great players in the final prime years of their career.
arguably, we got Cloke on the cheap for the first 7 years of his career (including the premiership year) and then he got a year or two where he was overpaid. It isnt Grossly overpaying him.
How many years do you think Franklin will be paid after he passes his use by date (he has what 8 or nine years left on his contract). Sydney were happy to do this to get the first 5-6 years (and its looking like it might deliver a premiership this year - they look bloody good). |
I don't think the USA is a country that does much right, including treating its own citizens with contempt.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason Australia and *some Australians* are like ankle biters who will ask 'how high' when the shambolic USA asks us to jump.
Seriously, do you think Travis Cloke is poor and the club should give him a couple an extra 1.5 million for nothing? Now I've heard it all.
I think that's a very flawed way of thinking.
1) It would ruin our salary cap.
2) People who have character and integrity and belief in their abilities are happy to be on a 1 year deal.
Do you see Sam Mitchell complaining who I rate as one of the all time greats?
Did you see Brian Lake complaining?
Hodge complaining?
Do you see Brendon Bolton complaining who is employed by Carlton and NOT on any contract?
3) Why bother bringing Sydney and what they do into the argument? They're a franchise club of the AFL and can do whatever they like.
- academies (while also being able to access father/sons), inflated salary cap (which other club would be able to buy Tippett after losing a G.F. and the Franklin the year after after winning the GF?
- don't even bother talking about Sydney, as there are different sets of rules that apply to Sydney, G.W.S., Gold Coast and to a lesser degree Brisbane - than all other clubs. |
I love a post that alleges bigotry and is itself full of bigotry. I know you know much better than the AFL, but nearly every club has an executive in the US right now trying to learn best practices.
Separately, I honestly think you totally missed my point. Cloke clearly too a discount to market back in 2012 (of that there can be no denying). In the salary cap era (or at least the slary cap leagues that have a hard cap - meaning no ability to move cap space across seasons), it has become common for players that accept lower salaries (to help with the salary cap situations), by spreading the cap hit over extra seasons but getting the same aggregate amount (e.g., $750k over 5 seasons vs $1 million for 4). Even if he is a dud in year 5, he still gets paid the same amount for his 4 likely productive years. Given that, at the time, we had just won a flag and had a lot of salary cap pressure, taking less for longer actually helped the pies rather than hurt them. Of course at some point, you have to pay the piper (and we are doping that now - while we suck - so who cares). I'm sure you don't get this, but this enables you to assemble a better team in the good times (better shot at flag) while paying the piper in the bad times (who cares if you finish 11th or 12th).
Conversely, while Lake and Mitchell might have taken one year deals, they took really big salaries (which probably suited the salary cap situation of the Hawks at that time). I don't think anyone suggested Lake and Mitchell are taking huge haircuts.
Really ignorant post on your part my friend.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| While I did not like the way Cloke and his old man used the media to haggle for a bigger contract with our club back in 2012, he had every right to try to get the best for himself. I guess, all I'm suggesting is that perhaps the club was dubious that Cloke would still be a force by 2017, which is why they did not want to give him a 5 year deal. Anyway, that's all irrelevant now. The fact is, it appears that Cloke's mind and body have hit a brick wall, and one way or another the end is nigh. I'm sure he's doing the best he can, and I'd like nothing more than to see the big fella start smashing packs again, taking strong contested pack marks and kicking goals from beyond the 50 metre arc. But the truth is I don't think we'll ever see that again. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he's just about finished. The next few weeks will prove it one way or the other. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | While I did not like the way Cloke and his old man used the media to haggle for a bigger contract with our club back in 2012, he had every right to try to get the best for himself. I guess, all I'm suggesting is that perhaps the club was dubious that Cloke would still be a force by 2017, which is why they did not want to give him a 5 year deal. Anyway, that's all irrelevant now. The fact is, it appears that Cloke's mind and body have hit a brick wall, and one way or another the end is nigh. I'm sure he's doing the best he can, and I'd like nothing more than to see the big fella start smashing packs again, taking strong contested pack marks and kicking goals from beyond the 50 metre arc. But the truth is I don't think we'll ever see that again. I hope I'm wrong, but I think he's just about finished. The next few weeks will prove it one way or the other. |
I agree with you 100% on all fronts Rudey. I think if you look at clokes earnings for the totality of his career, from crappy first contract to expensive 5th year of final contract, on the whole I think it has been a win-win for both player and club. I don't think on the whole he is overpaid, and maybe this year even's cloke up a bit for the early year discounts he gave us.
One thing is for sure. Cloke has given his all over his career. I'd love to get a montage of all of the pack marks and gut busting runs he's done over the years that has led him to point where he will probably feel pain for the rest of his life.
I'd also like his fans to stop sledging him at some point now that it is apparent that the end is nigh.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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In any event, he wasn't given "an extra 1.5 million for nothing". He actually stayed at Collingwood for much lower offers than were being made elsewhere, by at least, IIRC, Melbourne, Essendon, Fremantle, Richmond and Carlton. (He did this twice while he was at the peak of his powers.) In fact, any Club that wasn't offering $1 Million+ per year to lure him from Collingwood in 2012 wasn't really serious.
Cloke could have named his own price and commanded it. I don't get the expressions of hatred of him as a person on here, even though I accept that people have been worked up about the possibility that he might leave since Essendon first came knocking. As things have transpired, he's been at the Club since he was 16. And, despite all the brazen accusations in the old Travis Cloke thread that he was a "mercenary" and "disloyal" and a "muppet", he's still here, being paid (and already having been paid) way less than he would have been if he'd left. Make no mistake, his decision to stay at Collingwood has cost him a fortune. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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For the life of me I just cannot understand all of the vitriol that is directed at Travis Cloke. More than anyone else he knew he had a kicking problem and that he wasn't able to fix it. His form has been declining and it would appear that some supporters believe he has done that just to aggravate them. He has been a fine, loyal servant of the club and I would like to see him finish his career, whenever that may be, as a one club player. Over the last decade I would guess that if people were randomly asked to name a Collingwood player, he would top the poll.
I found it hard to accept years ago that players such as McKenna,Thompson, Max Richardson, Kink and Picken went elsewhere. In more recent times it just hasn't seemed right seeing the Shaws and Beams playing for the opposition. I would like Travis to be remembered as "former Collingwood premiership player"without some other club's name being involved. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| Post subject: Re: Serious discussion on Cloke | |
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| E wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | Seen tonight with Dickson what a real front man is supposed to do, played deep and shallow and was a clear asset to his team, IMO Cloke has one more week (a week he's lucky to have) to prove his worth, if he doesn't carve up the Saints tomorrow send him to the 2s, maybe, just maybe that might be the kick he needs. |
Sheesh guys. Cloke has been arguably the best power forward in the game for the past 10 years. Doesn't he deserve time to work himself into form? I bet Pavlich doesn't get sledged like this when he has a few quiet games early in the season. I bet no one talks of dumpling him.....
What a bunch of "what have you done for me lately" folks we have on this board.
Cloke still looks dangerous to me. I agree he is not on song or anywhere near his best form (which by the way, most 29 yo power forwards tail off about this time - Dermot Brereton anyone?), but he certainly did enough that talking of dropping him is idiotic and clearly vindictive.
I know you are just yearning for the cloke of old. that might not come back.
Think back to 2007 and how useful Ant rocca was as he wound down his career, even though he stopped being our best forward as Cloke came through. This is what you will start to need to expect from Cloke. nice leads up the ground with a quick penetrating kick forward to Fas or Moore, and him bobbing up for a few goals here and there.
Faz, Moore and Howe (and Elliot on return), need to start assuming goals are their job.
but please don't suggest there is anyone in the twos you think can do better than Cloke over the course of a season..... |
Just let me get my pen so i can jot this down.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Use a blunt crayon - you wouldn't want to poke yourself in the eye. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Use a blunt crayon - you wouldn't want to poke yourself in the eye. |
You really crack me up Pies4shaw  
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Use a blunt crayon - you wouldn't want to poke yourself in the eye. |
You sound like a man of experience.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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