A Grundy thread
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ It's plainly been the coaching plan. It was a strategy adopted by the former coach to deal with the lack of pace and stength in our midfield. |
Regardless, it's a dumb plan and dropping the ball straight down to weak midfielders if you don't have outside runners ready to receive a handpass is even dumber.
... |
There's never been any evidence given for the claim that it's all the coach's fault.
And anyway, he's a senior player who was given a $7 million contract. If the coach's plan is so bad, he could act like a senior player and raise the issue with the coaches and other senior players. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| stui magpie wrote: | ...
Does he drop so many taps at his feet because that's the coaching plan, or because he wants to or because that's where the mids are?
Regardless, that needs to change |
When you look at all his hit outs one by one and count them up, etc., you see that it's not true that almost all of his hit outs are to his feet. (I know 'cos I have.) There is some variation. Sometimes he goes left. Sometimes he goes right. Etc., etc., etc. ... Sadly, the result is the same. It goes straight to the oppo a gobsmacking number of times. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ It's plainly been the coaching plan. It was a strategy adopted by the former coach to deal with the lack of pace and stength in our midfield. |
Regardless, it's a dumb plan and dropping the ball straight down to weak midfielders if you don't have outside runners ready to receive a handpass is even dumber.
A good ruck midfield combo needs to have multiple options at each contest and a ruckman capable of using them depending on the situation. It's 3D chess played out in a second.
Grundy is smart enough and talented enough but the centre bounce and stoppage stategy is clearly poor, whoever is responsible for it and needs to change |
You'll get no argument from me. We know it isn't Grundy's gameplan, of course, because we watched him in the VFL and then in the AFL until the former coach made him change his approach. See, eg:
https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/185242/vfl-highlights-brodie-grundy?videoId=185242&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1404222836001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GNO56gswWc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvXIbFcVDxE
That last video, of course, contains highly-entertaining footage of Mumford pantsing Grundy at a ruck contest alongside the Collingwood behind post and then pretending to be hopelessly ragdolled by the less-talented man - finally, you will see Mumford levitate the ball onto Grundy's foot and through the Collingwood goals. He's good, that Mummy.... |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| K wrote: | Pie-supporting journo Gleeson:
"...
Grundy looked spooked by Shane Mumford, with memories of the prelim final of 2019 haunting him.
Opposition teams are presently unconcerned at Grundy’s hitout numbers - they are routinely high - because they only worry if those hitouts translate to high clearances and for Collingwood they do not.
Grundy has little aerial presence around the ground for a man of his size. Collingwood needs its big men to play like big men, and Grundy presently is not.
He had two marks for the game and most notably he dropped an uncontested mark in front of Mumford at half-forward when Collingwood had momentum and a mark to him would have seen the ball kicked inside 50. The dropped ball went to the other end for a GWS goal."
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-collingwood-at-a-crossroads-grundy-spooked-dog-ruck-s-new-role-20210411-p57i6n.html |
I guess some crazy folks will claim the coach ordered Grundy to drop simple uncontested marks to gift the oppo goals.  |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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And, for the hat-trick - from page 12 of this thread:
| K wrote: | Pie-supporting journo Gleeson:
Collingwood at a crossroads, Grundy spooked...
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-collingwood-at-a-crossroads-grundy-spooked-dog-ruck-s-new-role-20210411-p57i6n.html
"Brodie Grundy is the most vexing player at Collingwood. Well, one of the most vexing given they have Jordy De Goey and Mason Cox.
Grundy looked spooked by Shane Mumford, with memories of the prelim final of 2019 haunting him.
Opposition teams are presently unconcerned at Grundy’s hitout numbers - they are routinely high - because they only worry if those hitouts translate to high clearances and for Collingwood they do not.
Grundy has little aerial presence around the ground for a man of his size. Collingwood needs its big men to play like big men, and Grundy presently is not.
...
If there is a counterpoint to Grundy it is Western Bulldogs ruckman Tim English. A year ago Grundy rag-dolled English... In the space of 12 months English has overtaken him." |
At least when you reposted his incompetent nonsense yesterday and today you had enough sense to edit Gleeson's drivel to take out the hilarious comparison to English. Here is that part of Gleeson's point-in-time idiocy in full (I've highlighted in bold the part that you excluded when you you quoted just the bits you liked about English):
| Quote: | If there is a counterpoint to Grundy it is Western Bulldogs ruckman Tim English. A year ago Grundy rag-dolled English in a commanding man-to-boy, master-servant performance. In the space of 12 months English has overtaken him.
He was superb on Saturday, playing largely as a key forward. He has kicked six goals in the past two weeks and been a presence.Stef Martin, a quietly more canny piece of recruiting in the off-season than the securing of Adam Treloar, has enabled this development of English.
English has become a more damaging player by revealing he is the very rarest commodity: the ruckman who is as damaging forward.
English is among the best ruck-forward packages for he knows where to move, is an excellent mark and an uncluttered, accurate kick for goal. |
Except, of course, that we now know that was posted after English had had a couple of good games at the start of the season. After round 4, he had 8 goals - he had, of course, barely rucked (which Gleeson kind of acknowledges with his reference to Martin), so that he would be a better comparison with Cox or Darcy Cameron than with an actual knock ruckman. Be that as it may, at that stage of the season, Grundy had 0 goals. So, after Gleeson gave us his valueless post-round-4 impressions, English still didn't ruck much (he was Footscray's 3rd-choice for main ruckman in 2021) but managed only 11 goals in his 18 further games, whereas Grundy kicked 12 in his remaining 16 games. Grundy, of course, continued to play as Collingwood's first ruck, not as a forward.
English showed himself to be a poor man's Darcy Cameron, of course - Cameron actually kicked twice as many goals (22) as English (11) did in their respective last 18 games of the year.
Anyway, that's why football journalists should be wary of making "big calls" after round 4.
And, more particularly, it's why people like you with axes to grind about nothing in particular shouldn't repeat such drivel (twice in 24 hours, no less) when it's been hopelessly overtaken by events. |
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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Well we do need a ruck coach...
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A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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MagpieWhisperer35
Joined: 30 Sep 2018
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wether justified or not Grundies free kicks against at the start of the second quarter in 2018 GF was the writing on the wall , got the drug cheats going, and it was at this point I left before having to watch the inevitable tragic last minute loss, it was so obvious what was coming, (judge me if you want, but too much heartbreak ie robbed in 2002 etc etc) yes Pendles and Sidebottom were practically non entities that day but Grundy set the tone, that day broke me and i am still recovering. Apart from that, he just doesnt pass the eye test, looks cumbersome for a so called ruckmen slash midfielder, its now over to you Craig Mcrae to fix this shit, or its gonna be a long contract looooooong.
P.S. Treloar has a lot to answer for on that day too.
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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There was no free kick against anyone at the start of the second quarter. The ball went into Collingwood's forward line and stayed there for two minutes. It came out because McGovern kicked neatly to Kennedy.
The first free kick paid for the 2nd quarter was paid to Goldsack for a throw with about 3 minutes and 20 seconds of playing time elapsed. The second was paid to Treloar for in the back with about 6 minuts and 10 seconds of elapsed playing time. There's even a graphic displayed on the screen awith 13 minutes and 13 seconds to play in the second quarter that notes that Collingwood have had 2 free kicks to West Coast's 0 in the second quarter (it comes up just as Treloar takes his free kick).
The first free kick against Collingwood in the second quarter was against Cox for blocking Barrass off the ball in a marking contest on the wing. That's with about 11 minutes and 40 seconds left to play.
There was a free kick paid against Grundy for a hold at a throw-in on the wing with about 7 minutes and 32 seconds left to play. Langdon took a mark on the 50-metre line from the free kick. From that play. Collingwood took it down to the scoring end for a rushed behind (our first score for the quarter, from about a dozen inside 50s).
The first goal of the second quarter was by De Goey, with about 4 minutes and 36 seconds left on the clock. Collingwood went straight back into the forward line from the centre bounce (which Cox attended). West Coast finally got a goal with 3 minutes and 43 seconds left on the second quarter clock. A tackle on Mayne caused a turnover and a 3 on 1, with West Coast players running loose everywhere.
From the next centre bounce, Grundy got the hit out out and then caught Reddan holding the ball. Varcoe kicked a point around the corner on his left from a crumb following Grundy's long kick.
The next free kick was to Crisp for a high tackle, inside 3 minutes to play until halftime.
How much more of the second quarter do I have to watch?
Never mind. I've watched it to halftime. Just the one free kick against Grundy, on the wing - from Langdon's intercept mark and the resulting passage of play, Collingwood scored.
Whatever the writing on the wall was (in my respectful opinion, the inability of supposedly "great" midfield runners to get their hand on any useful ball in the second half), it wasn't the free kick that was paid against Grundy on the wing nearly three-quarters of the way through the second term, still less free kicks (plural) against him at the start of the second quarter. That simply did not happen.
Re-watching that quarter, what is apparent is that Collingwood dominated possession but couldn't do any scoreboard damage - indeed, the only goal we managed was De Goey's huge kick on the run. Collingwood kept West Coast in the game by the inability to score in the second quarter. A lot's been said by others about what happened at the end of the first quarter - but plainly Collingwood owned the ball for much of the second quarter but did nothing - 1 goal in almost 40 minutes of football from from the 22-minute mark of the first quarter until half time cost us badly. We were plainly out of legs just before halftime - we looked like a boxer on the ropes and it was no surprise the opposition got a couple of goals.
They got a goal from a quick kick out of the centre at the start of the third quarter. In the usual way, Grundy won the tap and hit it to Pendlebury. As luck would have it, the ball bounced up from Pendlebury, Reddan (who was second to the ball) collected it, handballed and Kennedy marked a fairly indiscriminate kick forward on his chest.
Ultimately, we lacked running capacity. With 7 minutes played in the last quarter, we'd kicked 3 goals to one in that term and led by 11 points (after being level at 3/4 time). They then ran all over us, kicking 2.5 to a point. The only surprising thing about that game is that we were close at the end on the scoreboard. The undermanned defense held up very well in difficult circumstances but, really, how were we going to beat West Coast when the midfield let them have 63 inside 50s? That was their second-highest inside 50 tally for the whole of 2018 and the +15 differential was equal to their biggest inside 50s win for the year. To put it in context, they thrashed Melbourne by 11 goals the previous week with one fewer inside 50 than Melbourne managed.
We lost the 2018 Grand Final because we couldn't get our hands on the ball in the midfield at the contest and because our forwards did nothing after about the first 20 minutes of any quarter.
Last edited by Pies4shaw on Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I hope with our new coaching staff and players and training surface etc Grundy rubs a few noses in it! Gees some people get so caught up! I have afeeling a few will be shocked, I don’t think the team is any where near as bad as it looked last season. Belief, encouragement, determination,, I expect to see a lot more of it.
We led by enough, no one player lost it for us. Let that $%$er die! It’s no more helpful than a camera showing Harmes was out of bounds!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^ It's difficult, though, isn't it - people imagine things happened in that Grand Final that never occurred. Then they assert them as firm "facts". It creates a fascinating - if indefensible - narrative.
What did happen was that Grundy dominated the start of the final quarter. Mihocek's goal came from Grundy palming the ball down beautifully to Mayne from a ball-up. That ball-up was created becase Grundy won the opening bounce but our runners couldn't clear it.
In fact, Collingwood kicked the first 2 goals of the final quarter inside 40 seconds of elapsed play. West Coast then got a free in the centre square. In a crazed view of the world, their ensuing goal was a "momentum killer". Yet, Collingwood kicked the next goal. So that, with just 4 minutes of play elapsed, Collingwood had kicked 3 goals to 1. The actual "momentum killer" came from the next centre bounce. Collingwood got first possession and then had 6 handballs in a row (Pendlebury to Grundy to Sier to Treloar to Langdon to Crisp to Sier) before Sier was tackled and turned it over. At the time, I put that one down to the game plan - it was Collingwood's classic "ring-a-rosy" handball pattern - sideways and backwards, looking for a player in the clear to move the ball forward. Without wanting to re-open old wounds, Richmond would not have conceded that goal - they never go sideways and backwards like that. It was a "game-style" goal. Darling beat Howe on the ground, Kennedy beat Goldsack in the marking contest.
Even then, we led the final quarter 3 goals to 2 and had the lead. The Eagles dominated the contest for the rest of the game but managed just 1 more goal. It was weight of possession in their favour (because they killed our midfield on the ground) and eventually cracking under constant bombardment (they had 14 inside 50s to 3, at one stage during that final term) that lost us the game, not some illusory "momentum killer". |
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Boot
Joined: 22 Feb 2013
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | ^ It's difficult, though, isn't it - people imagine things happened in that Grand Final that never occurred. Then they assert them as firm "facts". It creates a fascinating - if indefensible - narrative.
What did happen was that Grundy dominated the start of the final quarter. Mihocek's goal came from Grundy palming the ball down beautifully to Mayne from a ball-up. That ball-up was created becase Grundy won the opening bounce but our runners couldn't clear it.
In fact, Collingwood kicked the first 2 goals of the final quarter inside 40 seconds of elapsed play. West Coast then got a free in the centre square. In a crazed view of the world, their ensuing goal was a "momentum killer". Yet, Collingwood kicked the next goal. So that, with just 4 minutes of play elapsed, Collingwood had kicked 3 goals to 1. The actual "momentum killer" came from the next centre bounce. Collingwood got first possession and then had 6 handballs in a row (Pendlebury to Grundy to Sier to Treloar to Langdon to Crisp to Sier) before Sier was tackled and turned it over. At the time, I put that one down to the game plan - it was Collingwood's classic "ring-a-rosy" handball pattern - sideways and backwards, looking for a player in the clear to move the ball forward. Without wanting to re-open old wounds, Richmond would not have conceded that goal - they never go sideways and backwards like that. It was a "game-style" goal. Darling beat Howe on the ground, Kennedy beat Goldsack in the marking contest.
Even then, we led the final quarter 3 goals to 2 and had the lead. The Eagles dominated the contest for the rest of the game but managed just 1 more goal. It was weight of possession in their favour (because they killed our midfield on the ground) and eventually cracking under constant bombardment (they had 14 inside 50s to 3, at one stage during that final term) that lost us the game, not some illusory "momentum killer". |
It still hurts so much!! 
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Collingwood Domination. Envy of the Nation! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^ Yes, it reduced me to tears, quite literally. I'd lived through them not winning 14 Grand Finals - but that one hurt the most because the competition was so very poor and because the worst part of their team - the vanilla midfield - beat our supposed "strength".
Even so, I don't think there's merit in looking for the "blame" in some allegedly "momentum killing" incident. We lost because - after 122 minutes and 58 seconds of game time - we were 5 points behind. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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oh yeah we howled!!! it was painful!! still is!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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piffdog
Joined: 18 Jun 2021
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Mods - shut this thread down. Or at least re-file it under “2018 GF post game mourning”…
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Pebbles Rocks
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood
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| MagpieWhisperer35 wrote: | wether justified or not Grundies free kicks against at the start of the second quarter in 2018 GF was the writing on the wall , got the drug cheats going, and it was at this point I left before having to watch the inevitable tragic last minute loss, it was so obvious what was coming, (judge me if you want, but too much heartbreak ie robbed in 2002 etc etc) yes Pendles and Sidebottom were practically non entities that day but Grundy set the tone, that day broke me and i am still recovering. Apart from that, he just doesnt pass the eye test, looks cumbersome for a so called ruckmen slash midfielder, its now over to you Craig Mcrae to fix this shit, or its gonna be a long contract looooooong.
P.S. Treloar has a lot to answer for on that day too. |
A bit rough on Treloar. He did the double hammy that season and was not fully fit in that finals series
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