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| Nathan Buckley: what should the club do with him? |
| Sack him now and pay him out |
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18% |
[ 28 ] |
| Sack him at season's end and pay him out |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to sack) |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to keep) |
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17% |
[ 26 ] |
| Keep him until mid-season 2017, then reassess |
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5% |
[ 9 ] |
| Keep him until end of 2017, then reassess |
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17% |
[ 27 ] |
| Back him for as long as it takes! All We Can Be with NCB! |
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9% |
[ 15 ] |
| Other (please outline in the thread) |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 151 |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I've been critical of Bucks but also said he gets the rest of the season to try to fix things.
I said recently in another thread the gulf between our best and worst is massive as today showed.
How do you reconcile this week from the previous 2 weeks ?
Cohesion is a great thing but this week we make 5 changes and each of them paid dividends
For mine this season has been like a perfect storm scenario
Injuries to key players (Ramsay Swan Elliott Scharenberg Adams Varoce Pendles Moore Fasalo Marsh Langdon etc)
Loss of form of key planks Cloke Brown and the mediocre form at times of Crisp DeGoey and other young players
Playing 38 players some who didn't have the firm or runs on the board to get a senior game but we were forced to play them anyways
We play a style that IMO leaves us open defensively when things go sour but when it works we look sensational
I'll admit I'm still confused but also excited by what could be if that effort today becomes the norm in terms of our performance
It gives me hope we are on the right track
As for a season end review I'm still in favour of it for this reason
If your not looking at improving your already going backwards |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
I know it's amazing that any lay person with half a brain could review the tape after each game and look at structures and game style and analyse the basic errors our coaching staff were making.
What was some of the solutions? Go man on man more. Go back to more of a 2010 style I said. Stop handpassing so much. Become defensively accountable at stoppages. Get more numbers at the stoppage, especially inside fwd 50.
I could see it clear as day. Took Natho and his merry men (and a fair kick up the Jacksie from Eddie) 7 rounds to start implementing the things I said. The game plan and structure from round 1-7 is chalk and cheese. Go back look at the tape. It's unfathomable how off the boil our gameplan was in comparison to the rest of the competition. |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
I know it's amazing that any lay person with half a brain could review the tape after each game and look at structures and game style and analyse the basic errors our coaching staff were making.
What was some of the solutions? Go man on man more. Go back to more of a 2010 style I said. Stop handpassing so much. Become defensively accountable at stoppages. Get more numbers at the stoppage, especially inside fwd 50.
I could see it clear as day. Took Natho and his merry men (and a fair kick up the Jacksie from Eddie) 7 rounds to start implementing the things I said. The game plan and structure from round 1-7 is chalk and cheese. Go back look at the tape. It's unfathomable how off the boil our gameplan was in comparison to the rest of the competition. |
You clearly, honestly, believe that you have more insight into how to run a football side than the combined coaching staff of the Collingwood football club.
I remain unconvinced.
To me your reasoning seems to work like this; when we lose it's because Buckley is incompetent, when we win it's because Buckley has been copying from your homework. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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That ridiculous zone defence has gone, which cost us at least 4 wins this year and plenty last year, sack this $£$%^%%$ clown ASAP before he thinks of another stratagy for next year.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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courtza
Joined: 26 May 2013
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| Bob Sugar wrote: | | That ridiculous zone defence has gone, which cost us at least 4 wins this year and plenty last year, sack this $£$%^%%$ clown ASAP before he thinks of another stratagy for next year. |
You start your comment with an opinion, which is all good, then you could have said sack Bucks or the coach etc. but you go with f...ing clown which makes you a <snip> |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| courtza wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | That ridiculous zone defence has gone, which cost us at least 4 wins this year and plenty last year, sack this $£$%^%%$ clown ASAP before he thinks of another stratagy for next year. |
You start your comment with an opinion, which is all good, then you could have said sack Bucks or the coach etc. but you go with f...ing clown which makes you a <snip> |
We're where we are because of him and his ridiculous 'zone' he changes it after the seasons dusted and you want respect? I'd respect him more if he stuck to it 'if' he thought it was the way fwd, but obviously that isn't true, he abandoned it because it doesn't work, only took 2.5 years to work that out.
Ed may be loyal, but he aint stupid, we'll have a new coach next year, if you want to decimate a premiership list and instil an unproven game plan it better work, if it doesn't you don't get another throw at the stumps.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Bob Sugar wrote: | | courtza wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | That ridiculous zone defence has gone, which cost us at least 4 wins this year and plenty last year, sack this $£$%^%%$ clown ASAP before he thinks of another stratagy for next year. |
You start your comment with an opinion, which is all good, then you could have said sack Bucks or the coach etc. but you go with f...ing clown which makes you a <snip> |
We're where we are because of him and his ridiculous 'zone' he changes it after the seasons dusted and you want respect? I'd respect him more if he stuck to it 'if' he thought it was the way fwd, but obviously that isn't true, he abandoned it because it doesn't work, only took 2.5 years to work that out. |
Exactly. You can't win with the some of the "logic" on here. We lose to stk, Melb and Carlton, embarrassed by swans and wce and its "it's the injuries, it's the players not given effort and it's Derek hinds fault. It's not the gameplan, coaching or leading teams".
And when we win its "see if we stick to the gameplan that bucks has (which he has changed dramatically since round 1-7) and we get good players on the park we can win!". It's just gobsmackingly stupid. The gameplan we had from round 1 to 7 was an abomination. It's polls apart from what it is now. Yet <snip> on here say "well that proves he can coach. It's shows bucks is adaptable"...
No, it means he wasted 1/3 of the season with the wrong f@cking gameplan. It took the guy 7 rounds to swallow his pride and figure it out. We aren't contesting the top 4 because of our coaches. Plain and simple. Didn't stk only have 1 on the bench for the whole 4th qtr??
Like I said all along, we have the list. We have the talent. We have the recruiters. We don't have the coach. And today only solidifies my belief. Today's performance, game plan and structure was exactly what was required from round 1.
And don't get me started on Cloke. The guy should never have been dropped. He was always going to come good. |
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Johnno75
Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Location: Wantirna
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Fan Sack-o-meter downgraded to Moderate (blue). A win against the crows and it could be a further downgrade to low.
_________________
Human behavioural studies suggest people who use a lot of swear words tend to be more honest & trustworthy. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Go on. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | courtza wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | That ridiculous zone defence has gone, which cost us at least 4 wins this year and plenty last year, sack this $£$%^%%$ clown ASAP before he thinks of another stratagy for next year. |
You start your comment with an opinion, which is all good, then you could have said sack Bucks or the coach etc. but you go with f...ing clown which makes you a <snip> |
We're where we are because of him and his ridiculous 'zone' he changes it after the seasons dusted and you want respect? I'd respect him more if he stuck to it 'if' he thought it was the way fwd, but obviously that isn't true, he abandoned it because it doesn't work, only took 2.5 years to work that out. |
Exactly. You can't win with the some of the "logic" on here. We lose to stk, Melb and Carlton, embarrassed by swans and wce and its "it's the injuries, it's the players not given effort and it's Derek hinds fault. It's not the gameplan, coaching or leading teams".
And when we win its "see if we stick to the gameplan that bucks has (which he has changed dramatically since round 1-7) and we get good players on the park we can win!". It's just gobsmackingly stupid. The gameplan we had from round 1 to 7 was an abomination. It's polls apart from what it is now. Yet <snip> on here say "well that proves he can coach. It's shows bucks is adaptable"...
No, it means he wasted 1/3 of the season with the wrong f@cking gameplan. It took the guy 7 rounds to swallow his pride and figure it out. We aren't contesting the top 4 because of our coaches. Plain and simple. Didn't stk only have 1 on the bench for the whole 4th qtr??
Like I said all along, we have the list. We have the talent. We have the recruiters. We don't have the coach. And today only solidifies my belief. Today's performance, game plan and structure was exactly what was required from round 1.
And don't get me started on Cloke. The guy should never have been dropped. He was always going to come good. |
The rabbit hole goes deeper KM, take this red pill, good, here we go.
He formulated this defensive zone knowing we had an unaccoutable midfield, as good as some of mids are they're hardly manic 2 way runners, but what makes it worse he went with that zone knowing we only had junior rucks, add to that the inexperienced backline of ours, seriously, WTF was he trying to do? Fact is he never gave us a chance.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
I know it's amazing that any lay person with half a brain could review the tape after each game and look at structures and game style and analyse the basic errors our coaching staff were making.
What was some of the solutions? Go man on man more. Go back to more of a 2010 style I said. Stop handpassing so much. Become defensively accountable at stoppages. Get more numbers at the stoppage, especially inside fwd 50.
I could see it clear as day. Took Natho and his merry men (and a fair kick up the Jacksie from Eddie) 7 rounds to start implementing the things I said. The game plan and structure from round 1-7 is chalk and cheese. Go back look at the tape. It's unfathomable how off the boil our gameplan was in comparison to the rest of the competition. |
You clearly, honestly, believe that you have more insight into how to run a football side than the combined coaching staff of the Collingwood football club.
I remain unconvinced.
To me your reasoning seems to work like this; when we lose it's because Buckley is incompetent, when we win it's because Buckley has been copying from your homework. |
It's not about wins and losses per se. If we play well, the structures are good, and we lose then I'll admit the other side was just better on the day. Good effort all around. Like the Bulldogs game. Clearly bucks coached well that game.
Many times in the Malthouse era I'd praise the game plan and effort after a loss.
But what was dishes up in the first 7 rounds was an abomination. The structure and game plan was a mess. Players were confused. FFS after round 3 the coach publicly said "the defensive structures have collapsed". It should never have got that low before the head coach reigned it in. It's not acceptable.
We beat Melb once and stk with the gameplan we have now, which closely resembles much of my suggestions and rectifies many of the failings of the rounds 1-7 gameplan and we are 9-7 and in the Top 8 tonight. We beat Carlton twice and we are 10-6 and in the top 4 hunt.
The first 1/3 of the season was a disgrace and has cost us a finals berth. And it was the coaches game plan in that period that was the key reason for our failings vs stk, Melb and Carlton. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| Bob Sugar wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | courtza wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | That ridiculous zone defence has gone, which cost us at least 4 wins this year and plenty last year, sack this $£$%^%%$ clown ASAP before he thinks of another stratagy for next year. |
You start your comment with an opinion, which is all good, then you could have said sack Bucks or the coach etc. but you go with f...ing clown which makes you a <snip> |
We're where we are because of him and his ridiculous 'zone' he changes it after the seasons dusted and you want respect? I'd respect him more if he stuck to it 'if' he thought it was the way fwd, but obviously that isn't true, he abandoned it because it doesn't work, only took 2.5 years to work that out. |
Exactly. You can't win with the some of the "logic" on here. We lose to stk, Melb and Carlton, embarrassed by swans and wce and its "it's the injuries, it's the players not given effort and it's Derek hinds fault. It's not the gameplan, coaching or leading teams".
And when we win its "see if we stick to the gameplan that bucks has (which he has changed dramatically since round 1-7) and we get good players on the park we can win!". It's just gobsmackingly stupid. The gameplan we had from round 1 to 7 was an abomination. It's polls apart from what it is now. Yet <snip> on here say "well that proves he can coach. It's shows bucks is adaptable"...
No, it means he wasted 1/3 of the season with the wrong f@cking gameplan. It took the guy 7 rounds to swallow his pride and figure it out. We aren't contesting the top 4 because of our coaches. Plain and simple. Didn't stk only have 1 on the bench for the whole 4th qtr??
Like I said all along, we have the list. We have the talent. We have the recruiters. We don't have the coach. And today only solidifies my belief. Today's performance, game plan and structure was exactly what was required from round 1.
And don't get me started on Cloke. The guy should never have been dropped. He was always going to come good. |
The rabbit hole goes deeper KM, take this red pill, good, here we go.
He formulated this defensive zone knowing we had an unaccoutable midfield, as good as some of mids are they're hardly manic 2 way runners, but what makes it worse he went with that zone knowing we only had junior rucks, add to that the inexperienced backline of ours, seriously, WTF was he trying to do? Fact is he never gave us a chance. |
Exactly. The players had the rug pulled from under them. They were trying to win with one hand tied behind their back. Yet when the main issue was the game plan The players took the heat in the media "we just need to work harder... Bucks has the blueprint for success we just need to give an extra 10%"... What a load of sh1t. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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I reckon most champion players who become coaches try and reinvent the wheel, hence why most fail, but damn, Bucks took it to a new level.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | courtza wrote: | | Bob Sugar wrote: | | That ridiculous zone defence has gone, which cost us at least 4 wins this year and plenty last year, sack this $£$%^%%$ clown ASAP before he thinks of another stratagy for next year. |
You start your comment with an opinion, which is all good, then you could have said sack Bucks or the coach etc. but you go with f...ing clown which makes you a <snip> |
We're where we are because of him and his ridiculous 'zone' he changes it after the seasons dusted and you want respect? I'd respect him more if he stuck to it 'if' he thought it was the way fwd, but obviously that isn't true, he abandoned it because it doesn't work, only took 2.5 years to work that out. |
Exactly. You can't win with the some of the "logic" on here. We lose to stk, Melb and Carlton, embarrassed by swans and wce and its "it's the injuries, it's the players not given effort and it's Derek hinds fault. It's not the gameplan, coaching or leading teams".
And when we win its "see if we stick to the gameplan that bucks has (which he has changed dramatically since round 1-7) and we get good players on the park we can win!". It's just gobsmackingly stupid. The gameplan we had from round 1 to 7 was an abomination. It's polls apart from what it is now. Yet <snip> on here say "well that proves he can coach. It's shows bucks is adaptable"...
No, it means he wasted 1/3 of the season with the wrong f@cking gameplan. It took the guy 7 rounds to swallow his pride and figure it out. We aren't contesting the top 4 because of our coaches. Plain and simple. Didn't stk only have 1 on the bench for the whole 4th qtr??
Like I said all along, we have the list. We have the talent. We have the recruiters. We don't have the coach. And today only solidifies my belief. Today's performance, game plan and structure was exactly what was required from round 1.
And don't get me started on Cloke. The guy should never have been dropped. He was always going to come good. |
The rabbit hole goes deeper KM, take this red pill, good, here we go.
He formulated this defensive zone knowing we had an unaccoutable midfield, as good as some of mids are they're hardly manic 2 way runners, but what makes it worse he went with that zone knowing we only had junior rucks, add to that the inexperienced backline of ours, seriously, WTF was he trying to do? Fact is he never gave us a chance. |
Exactly. The players had the rug pulled from under them. They were trying to win with one hand tied behind their back. Yet when the main issue was the game plan The players took the heat in the media "we just need to work harder... Bucks has the blueprint for success we just need to give an extra 10%"... What a load of sh1t. |
We had 2 AA defenders who (from what we're told) became disruptive, i bought it at the time, so both were traded, i'm thinking now those boys were outspoken about Bucks gameplan, make's you think eh?
Zone defence when your team butchers the ball isn't a great idea.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Johnno75 wrote: | | Fan Sack-o-meter downgraded to Moderate (blue). A win against the crows and it could be a further downgrade to low. |
Doubtful |
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