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| Nathan Buckley: what should the club do with him? |
| Sack him now and pay him out |
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18% |
[ 28 ] |
| Sack him at season's end and pay him out |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to sack) |
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14% |
[ 22 ] |
| Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to keep) |
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17% |
[ 26 ] |
| Keep him until mid-season 2017, then reassess |
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5% |
[ 9 ] |
| Keep him until end of 2017, then reassess |
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17% |
[ 27 ] |
| Back him for as long as it takes! All We Can Be with NCB! |
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9% |
[ 15 ] |
| Other (please outline in the thread) |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 151 |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| i hate carlton wrote: | Ho hum, here we go again.
Bucks will win us multiple flags. He is rebuilding the team in his image. It will be historic. |
On present indications we'll be top 4 material in the next year or so - but I doubt anyone will beat the GWS Frankenstein team once it matures, and that may deny Buckley the glory he deserves.
Anything fed on the whey protein of top draft picks and COLA help for several successive years will be unstoppable, in the end. My fear is that we run into a Brisbane 2002/2003 scenario. But this team will be very good, once Schazza and Elliott and Ramsey return and grow, and DeGoey, Moore, Adams, Grundy and Aish start to really reach their peak. Cloke and Swan will pass into the footballing night and we'll need another KPP at some point, but signs - vs Geelong, vs GWS - are positive.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| i hate carlton wrote: | Ho hum, here we go again.
Bucks will win us multiple flags. He is rebuilding the team in his image. It will be historic. |
Biased on present evidence - highly unlikely. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
Exactly, the very idea that it's the same gameplan better implemented due to the return of injured players and return to form of a few senior players just doesn't accord with his views so just denies what is the more obvious explanation. |
It's not the same gameplan. Go check the tape. The structures and set ups are drastically different. Do not take my word for it though. Go check the tape and compare our set ups from rounds 1-7 and to now. We actually man up at stoppages. It's amazing. Who knew such simple things could make a difference. The question you need to ask yourself is why the hell weren't we using the same style from round 1, and why wasn't it drilled into the playing group over the preseason? They came into the year with a terrible gameplan. Pure and simple. The coaches got it wrong, and certain wins vs blues, demons and saints became losses |
Same game plan, better implementation... not sure what's so hard to grasp. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| jackcass wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
Exactly, the very idea that it's the same gameplan better implemented due to the return of injured players and return to form of a few senior players just doesn't accord with his views so just denies what is the more obvious explanation. |
It's not the same gameplan. Go check the tape. The structures and set ups are drastically different. Do not take my word for it though. Go check the tape and compare our set ups from rounds 1-7 and to now. We actually man up at stoppages. It's amazing. Who knew such simple things could make a difference. The question you need to ask yourself is why the hell weren't we using the same style from round 1, and why wasn't it drilled into the playing group over the preseason? They came into the year with a terrible gameplan. Pure and simple. The coaches got it wrong, and certain wins vs blues, demons and saints became losses |
Same game plan, better implementation... not sure what's so hard to grasp. |
Same game plan, more key players available, a fast developing ruckman, more consistency, better implementation.....it ain't rocket science.  |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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My concern is that clearly the list is capable of playing great football, but how did the coaches allow the team to play such an unaccountable brand of football for most of the first half of the season?
It worries me that tactically they could be so far off the mark for such a prolonged period of time.
Continuity of personnel is clearly important to success, but our efforts weren't even competitive in some of the earlier games, in the absence of the best part of our list all being available most weeks. That continues to nag away at my faith in the current coaching group.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Albert Parker wrote: | My concern is that clearly the list is capable of playing great football, but how did the coaches allow the team to play such an unaccountable brand of football for most of the first half of the season?
It worries me that tactically they could be so far off the mark for such a prolonged period of time.
Continuity of personnel is clearly important to success, but our efforts weren't even competitive in some of the earlier games, in the absence of the best part of our list all being available most weeks. That continues to nag away at my faith in the current coaching group. |
Apart from our injuries, I put our poor performances earlier mainly down to 2 factors:
1. Earlier we were smashed in the ruck most weeks, giving our opposition first use of the ball and placing our defence under immense pressure.
2. Our defensive line-up was ill equipped earlier in the season. It is no coincidence that we now have Frost, Oxley, Toovey and Williams playing in the ressies.
Last edited by RudeBoy on Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Agree Rudey. Gain some control, even ascendancy in the midfield and the whole thing just seems to come together. The improvement in Grundy YTD has been nothing short of sensational and he is bringing the other mids into the game. The mids get a sniff and all of a sudden you pressure the opposition, you get better spread which then leads to better transition. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Albert Parker wrote: | My concern is that clearly the list is capable of playing great football, but how did the coaches allow the team to play such an unaccountable brand of football for most of the first half of the season?
It worries me that tactically they could be so far off the mark for such a prolonged period of time.
Continuity of personnel is clearly important to success, but our efforts weren't even competitive in some of the earlier games, in the absence of the best part of our list all being available most weeks. That continues to nag away at my faith in the current coaching group. |
Apart from our injuries, I put our poor performances earlier mainly down to 2 factors:
1. Earlier we were smashed in the ruck most weeks, giving our opposition first use of the ball and placing our defence under immense pressure.
2. Our defensive line-up was ill equipped earlier in the season. It is no coincidence that we now have Frost, Oxley and Williams playing in the ressies. |
The win on the weekend was very pleasing, as was seeing Cloke hit some sort of decent form finally.
The issue with some of us, and why maybe some of us will stand by our stance until we 'actually see' something akin to looking like winning a flag on a prolonged basis - is that we've been seeing almost nothing but pig headed rubbish 'tactically' from our coaching staff... not just this year, but for several years.
I believe we're going to have to see a whole lot more of what we saw on the weekend before some of us stop calling for heads to roll.
It is what it is, the mountain is patient. |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | Albert Parker wrote: | My concern is that clearly the list is capable of playing great football, but how did the coaches allow the team to play such an unaccountable brand of football for most of the first half of the season?
It worries me that tactically they could be so far off the mark for such a prolonged period of time.
Continuity of personnel is clearly important to success, but our efforts weren't even competitive in some of the earlier games, in the absence of the best part of our list all being available most weeks. That continues to nag away at my faith in the current coaching group. |
Apart from our injuries, I put our poor performances earlier mainly down to 2 factors:
1. Earlier we were smashed in the ruck most weeks, giving our opposition first use of the ball and placing our defence under immense pressure.
2. Our defensive line-up was ill equipped earlier in the season. It is no coincidence that we now have Frost, Oxley and Williams playing in the ressies. |
The win on the weekend was very pleasing, as was seeing Cloke hit some sort of decent form finally.
The issue with some of us, and why maybe some of us will stand by our stance until we 'actually see' something akin to looking like winning a flag on a prolonged basis - is that we've been seeing almost nothing but pig headed rubbish 'tactically' from our coaching staff... not just this year, but for several years.
I believe we're going to have to see a whole lot more of what we saw on the weekend before some of us stop calling for heads to roll.
It is what it is, the mountain is patient. |
Grundy was no doubt well-beaten early in the season and the team accordingly in clearances (I thnk Port have managed better with Trengove in the ruck in similar circumstances).
It was the whole guarding space piece, while our opponents ran around us, that I was more flustered by. Think the Saints game, Richmond game, Melbourne game etc
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| courtza wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | THE Bucks haters can now spend the rest of the week wiping all the scrambled eggs off their sorry mooshes. ! LOL Krak magic, hope you have a massive sponge too remove all the egg off your face, in particular.
Finally, a week all the Bucks doubters can now STFU. thank the Lord.! |
A whole week... (golf clap). |
Haha am I allowed to mention the concrete boots GWS were running around in after 1/4 time... They couldn't possibly be in a high training load preparing for finals could they?? I wouldn't dare want to take away from the great win that it was, and I hate to be the negative nelly, but if you were gonna do a hard training phase prior to finals it would be while you've got bye, pies, lions and power... Just saying |
You don't want to take away from the win but immediately you do it anyway ? And, you are glad that the team are finally winning but if they had taken your advice earlier they would have started winning earlier.I really enjoy reading your comments because you are probably the funniest poster on this board. What makes it even funnier is that you do not even realise it. |
Why thank you. I do try my best. I'll try my best to be as funny as our gameplan and structure from rounds 1 to 7 haha |
How much time do you spend analyzing each game Krak?
Is it just you or do you have a team of blokes to help with your assessments? |
Well I usually watch 4 to 6 games a weekend. Always watch the pies. Try to catch as many of the top 8 sides each week as possible. If I see something strange or odd or different in a set up, stoppage or kick in I'll remember it. Go back on Monday and Tuesday night and review it on tape. Pause it to see what's happening across the ground, where the players are instructed to stand etc. Then I'll watch a few qtrs of top 8 sides see how they structure up at kick ins and stoppages and whether they do it different to us.
Thats why I look at top sides especially swans and Hawks. No matter who's injured or who isn't on the park the players that turn up on game day, the structure is consistent. A player doesn't need talent to know where to stand. He just needs the right coach to drill it into him |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| SuperSwede wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
I know it's amazing that any lay person with half a brain could review the tape after each game and look at structures and game style and analyse the basic errors our coaching staff were making.
What was some of the solutions? Go man on man more. Go back to more of a 2010 style I said. Stop handpassing so much. Become defensively accountable at stoppages. Get more numbers at the stoppage, especially inside fwd 50.
I could see it clear as day. Took Natho and his merry men (and a fair kick up the Jacksie from Eddie) 7 rounds to start implementing the things I said. The game plan and structure from round 1-7 is chalk and cheese. Go back look at the tape. It's unfathomable how off the boil our gameplan was in comparison to the rest of the competition. |
You clearly, honestly, believe that you have more insight into how to run a football side than the combined coaching staff of the Collingwood football club.
I remain unconvinced.
To me your reasoning seems to work like this; when we lose it's because Buckley is incompetent, when we win it's because Buckley has been copying from your homework. |
It's not about wins and losses per se. If we play well, the structures are good, and we lose then I'll admit the other side was just better on the day. Good effort all around. Like the Bulldogs game. Clearly bucks coached well that game.
Many times in the Malthouse era I'd praise the game plan and effort after a loss.
But what was dishes up in the first 7 rounds was an abomination. The structure and game plan was a mess. Players were confused. FFS after round 3 the coach publicly said "the defensive structures have collapsed". It should never have got that low before the head coach reigned it in. It's not acceptable.
We beat Melb once and stk with the gameplan we have now, which closely resembles much of my suggestions and rectifies many of the failings of the rounds 1-7 gameplan and we are 9-7 and in the Top 8 tonight. We beat Carlton twice and we are 10-6 and in the top 4 hunt.
The first 1/3 of the season was a disgrace and has cost us a finals berth. And it was the coaches game plan in that period that was the key reason for our failings vs stk, Melb and Carlton. |
Seeing that you joined in April 2011 I guess you would not have had all that many opportunities to express your praise of the Malthouse game plan after a loss - at least in this forum. So I guesss the rest of us will just have to take your word for it - that you actually expressed this sentiment. Or are you perhaps referring to Malthouse's sojourn at the Filth. For some reason I'm less than impressed. |
Well, I can't help the date I joined. But I must say I never saw a gameplan so inept for so long under Malthouse as the one from round 1 to 7. People might bring up 04/05 as an example I suppose. But I think there are vast differences in that comparison. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| jackcass wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
Exactly, the very idea that it's the same gameplan better implemented due to the return of injured players and return to form of a few senior players just doesn't accord with his views so just denies what is the more obvious explanation. |
It's not the same gameplan. Go check the tape. The structures and set ups are drastically different. Do not take my word for it though. Go check the tape and compare our set ups from rounds 1-7 and to now. We actually man up at stoppages. It's amazing. Who knew such simple things could make a difference. The question you need to ask yourself is why the hell weren't we using the same style from round 1, and why wasn't it drilled into the playing group over the preseason? They came into the year with a terrible gameplan. Pure and simple. The coaches got it wrong, and certain wins vs blues, demons and saints became losses |
Same game plan, better implementation... not sure what's so hard to grasp. |
Different gameplan, different structural set ups. Why's it so hard to grasp. Spend a few hours and watch the tape.
Last edited by Krakouer Magic on Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
Exactly, the very idea that it's the same gameplan better implemented due to the return of injured players and return to form of a few senior players just doesn't accord with his views so just denies what is the more obvious explanation. |
It's not the same gameplan. Go check the tape. The structures and set ups are drastically different. Do not take my word for it though. Go check the tape and compare our set ups from rounds 1-7 and to now. We actually man up at stoppages. It's amazing. Who knew such simple things could make a difference. The question you need to ask yourself is why the hell weren't we using the same style from round 1, and why wasn't it drilled into the playing group over the preseason? They came into the year with a terrible gameplan. Pure and simple. The coaches got it wrong, and certain wins vs blues, demons and saints became losses |
Same game plan, better implementation... not sure what's so hard to grasp. |
Same game plan, more key players available, a fast developing ruckman, more consistency, better implementation.....it ain't rocket science. |
Changes to gameplan, different structures around stoppages, more emphasis on defensive accountability, more man on man and as Bucks said on 360 after the Lions win "coaches giving 10% more direction to young players on the training track"... It ain't rocket science. Our coaches let our playing group down in preparing them for the 2016 season
Last edited by Krakouer Magic on Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Redlight wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | Hang on a second, I thought it was all about injuries and drug scandals and Derek Hines recruiting Yadda Yadda Yadda???? And it had nothing to do with gameplan or structures as it was just players giving more effort???
Are you telling me it took the coach from November 2015 (right through pre season) and the first 7 to 10 rounds for the penny to drop that his gameplan and his structures were woeful? I don't know about you but I'd much rather a coach that can get it right for more than half a season. Remember, the last two years fade outs in second half of the year. For three years he's been incapable of producing results for the majority of the 22 game season. |
This argument doesn't hold water for me for a couple of reasons. The first is the conceit that you, a random internet poster, can discern problems and fixes for the 'gameplan and structures' far more readily than the entire coaching staff at a professional AFL club.
The second problem is the idea that a team drilled in one gameplan and set of structures over (at the very least) an entire pre-season can adopt an entirely new gameplan and set of structures in the space of one week.
It seems far more likely that the return of key players, and the relative settling of the side over recent weeks, has combined to help the team implement the plans that have already been drummed into them. |
Exactly, the very idea that it's the same gameplan better implemented due to the return of injured players and return to form of a few senior players just doesn't accord with his views so just denies what is the more obvious explanation. |
It's not the same gameplan. Go check the tape. The structures and set ups are drastically different. Do not take my word for it though. Go check the tape and compare our set ups from rounds 1-7 and to now. We actually man up at stoppages. It's amazing. Who knew such simple things could make a difference. The question you need to ask yourself is why the hell weren't we using the same style from round 1, and why wasn't it drilled into the playing group over the preseason? They came into the year with a terrible gameplan. Pure and simple. The coaches got it wrong, and certain wins vs blues, demons and saints became losses |
Same game plan, better implementation... not sure what's so hard to grasp. |
Different gameplan, different structural set ups. Why's it so hard to grasp. Spend a few hours and the tape. |
Yep, we still zone but we don't press up as much, and the press up was the problem, it could work with manic forward and midfield pressure, but, we can't sustain it.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | i hate carlton wrote: | Ho hum, here we go again.
Bucks will win us multiple flags. He is rebuilding the team in his image. It will be historic. |
Biased on present evidence - highly unlikely. |
Pies rank 18th in clearances. GWS 1st in clearances. We won the clearances 42-33. Yet lost clearances to Carlton (16th in clearances) the week before 33-29. How often does that happen? 18th beating 1st? Yep GWS weren't showing any signs of being fatigued from a higher training load.
Looking forward to a similar smashing of Adelaide in clearances this week |
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