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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| September Zeros wrote: | All these wonderful warm hearted posts and yet I still couldn't give two shits about Liam jurrah's current incarceration. That's not "absolute condemnation" but rather not giving a toss about him being locked up. It's where he needs to be.
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No one was arguing he shouldn't be. Which is why this is a straw man argument (strike the "no one" and let's say "I wasn't", I haven't read every single post).
My main point was I thought an obvious and uncontroversial one. You don't write off a person based on a couple of bad acts; just like you don't junk your car because it has a chipped windscreen. I think most posters would agree, as even negative posts are saying they hope he can redeem himself.
I did take it a bit further in saying that even before the redemption people deserve more than complete condemnation, and to be judged (if judging is what you want to do) for more than the act in question. Still fairly uncontroversial, we surely all agree that everyone has more than one side to them. Most of us don't know Liam and have little knowledge on which to base any judgement. In that case, making hard and fast statements seems to only serve the purpose of elevating oneself above Liam. Maybe a little ironic given the accusations against other posters, particularly David  . I'm all for less judgement all round, from posters to other posters or posters to Liam, but have no issues with anyone saying whatever it is they like.
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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | September Zeros wrote: | All these wonderful warm hearted posts and yet I still couldn't give two shits about Liam jurrah's current incarceration. That's not "absolute condemnation" but rather not giving a toss about him being locked up. It's where he needs to be.
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No one was arguing he shouldn't be. Which is why this is a straw man argument (strike the "no one" and let's say "I wasn't", I haven't read every single post).
My main point was I thought an obvious and uncontroversial one. You don't write off a person based on a couple of bad acts; just like you don't junk your car because it has a chipped windscreen. I think most posters would agree, as even negative posts are saying they hope he can redeem himself.
I did take it a bit further in saying that even before the redemption people deserve more than complete condemnation, and to be judged (if judging is what you want to do) for more than the act in question. Still fairly uncontroversial, we surely all agree that everyone has more than one side to them. Most of us don't know Liam and have little knowledge on which to base any judgement. In that case, making hard and fast statements seems to only serve the purpose of elevating oneself above Liam. Maybe a little ironic given the accusations against other posters, particularly David . I'm all for less judgement all round, from posters to other posters or posters to Liam, but have no issues with anyone saying whatever it is they like. |
Fairly put inkling, just understand my voice here was largely reactive to a common theme of self appointed righteousness that pops up regularly on nicks......it's tiring to read over and over and as someone rightly pointed out hijacks the thread.......admittedly of which I am part of on this occasion but felt compelled to balance the argument since we are indeed not in VPT and Especially in light of being advised to hang my own head in shame over this.
Back on topic,, I'm happy with the clubs choice not to pursue him as a player.
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No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Museman wrote: | | David wrote: |
People often confuse making excuses with understanding the role of causality. Making excuses is saying that Jurrah's background justifies his actions. Nobody here is saying that. Understanding the role of causality, on the other hand, is saying that we need to understand that Jurrah's unbelievably tough upbringing has played a huge role in his problems staying on the straight and narrow, and that we might well be in a similar position if we shared his circumstances. That's why I feel empathy for him without in any way excusing or minimising his actions. |
WTF?  we might not be too David
And this is where your white knight attitude confuses the issue.
Plenty of people from varying racial and social backgrounds have had it tough to very tough to outright horrifying mate, and yet still manage to live a good honest life without straying off the straight and narrow...
While upbringing and social circumstance might prove to be a mitigating factor it does not warrant empathy for one once one chooses, (and that's a very important word because you still have a choice) to cross a certain line.
Where was your empathy for a teenage girl who's upbringing or circumstance may or may not have contributed to her innocently stupid or deeply racial slur? |
Oh gawd, Museman, not to pick on you specifically, but do you know how many basic factual and logical errors you just made in that post? Have you even stopped to think about the difference between choosing a flavour of ice-cream and feeling compelled to lash out to resolve feelings of extreme shame and anger?
For goodness' sake, have some comprehension of statistics if you want to make statistical claims, and have some comprehension of cognitive science if you want to make claims about the human brain. Has it ever even occurred to you that when comparing the psychiatries of two humans you're not actually comparing two identical entities? That's why science uses statistics and identical twin studies in order to investigate these things.
David, you're banging your head against a brick wall. This is a rinse and repeat story which obviously needs a new approach.
Trying to explain the difference between the personal stories we need to tell ourselves to create a sense of efficacy and control, and the broader scientific task of isolating causal factors in order to find solutions to complex problems, is apparently a futile effort in many cases. People struggle to fathom how those two levels of analysis can exist at the same time, and feel threatened by anything which challenges their own stories of efficacy and control.
The best analogy for understanding the magnitude of the task you face is something like this: You're trying to explain relativity and quantum physics�and the difficulty of unifying them�to people who are still wanting to burn Galileo at the stake.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
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holdencaulfield
Joined: 12 Apr 2013
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The Magistrate who sentenced Jurrah said he found it strange that the football community keeps giving chances to someone who keeps getting done for domestic violence. I think he meant that they are condoning wife bashing by just sweeping it under the carpet every time he gets out of jail. How many chances does a bloke need to get before society says Enough of this crap, go away and sort yourself out.
BTW an earlier poster mentioned people looking down their noses at Liam Jurrah. I definitely look down my nose at violent men who bash women and girls so I guess that means I look down my nose at Liam Jurrah. Why should I pretend otherwise? It would be hypocritical |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| holdencaulfield wrote: | | ......... I look down my nose at Liam Jurrah..... |
Why, how tall are you? Liams' over 6' 
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holdencaulfield
Joined: 12 Apr 2013
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| watt price tully wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: | | ......... I look down my nose at Liam Jurrah..... |
Why, how tall are you? Liams' over 6' |
He might be a 6 footer but he is pretty small IMO |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| holdencaulfield wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: | | ......... I look down my nose at Liam Jurrah..... |
Why, how tall are you? Liams' over 6' |
He might be a 6 footer but he is pretty small IMO |
Lighten up a bit, I would ask you how much you weigh but that would be carrying the dad joke too far
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| holdencaulfield wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: | | ......... I look down my nose at Liam Jurrah..... |
Why, how tall are you? Liams' over 6' |
He might be a 6 footer but he is pretty small IMO |
winner!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: | | ......... I look down my nose at Liam Jurrah..... |
Why, how tall are you? Liams' over 6' |
He might be a 6 footer but he is pretty small IMO |
Lighten up a bit, I would ask you how much you weigh but that would be carrying the dad joke too far |
I always respect your opinion, but there is nothing funny about beating a woman
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| think positive wrote: | [quote="holdencaulfield"][quote="watt price tully"][quote="holdencaulfield"]......... I look down my nose at Liam Jurrah.....[/quote]
Why, how tall are you? Liams' over 6' [/quote]
He might be a 6 footer but he is pretty small IMO[/quote]
winner!! |
You sound very attractive. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: | | ......... I look down my nose at Liam Jurrah..... |
Why, how tall are you? Liams' over 6' |
He might be a 6 footer but he is pretty small IMO |
Lighten up a bit, I would ask you how much you weigh but that would be carrying the dad joke too far |
I always respect your opinion, but there is nothing funny about beating a woman |
Who said there was?
I was making fun of HC's use of language (as if that needed spelling out): "I look down my nose....." I wasn't criticising HC.
HC, yourself & others don't have a monopoly on interpreting LJ's actions as anything less than serious. All here agree with the seriousness of that.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Sat May 10, 2014 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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oops
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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holdencaulfield
Joined: 12 Apr 2013
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Yes it certainly is
All Liam Jurrah has to do is resolve to atone for his past outrageous behaviour and decide to become a useful member of society. He does not need backslappers and sycophants surrounding him |
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