Have We Improved?
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Ioannina
Joined: 18 Sep 2014
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| football. soccer etc are sport games not mathematics
|
|
|
|
 |
matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| AN_Inkling wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | More interestingly, the Dogs get most of their goals at Etihad - and by a very substantial margin. Remains to be seen if they can score enough against a good team at a serious football ground here finals are played. |
No one is expecting them to win the flag.
Most didn't expect them to play finals.
Some had them bottom 4.
What they have achieved is impressive and hands up who recognised more than 2/3 of the names in the dogs team today. |
Who is not to say that could be us in 2016? |
Good point. I don't think we were far from making a similar jump this year. The gulf between us and the Dogs isn't as large as it seems right now. |
If we played the dogs at the MCG we would beat them.
McCartney's work in shaping up the dogs is massively underrated- he weeded out crap and instilled a strong work ethic and culture.
Confidence combined with youthful exuberance is a wondeful thing, and that is what has enabled the Dogs to do what they have.
Remember they lost to the Demons earlier in the year.
Perspective.
|
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| matrix10 wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | More interestingly, the Dogs get most of their goals at Etihad - and by a very substantial margin. Remains to be seen if they can score enough against a good team at a serious football ground here finals are played. |
No one is expecting them to win the flag.
Most didn't expect them to play finals.
Some had them bottom 4.
What they have achieved is impressive and hands up who recognised more than 2/3 of the names in the dogs team today. |
Who is not to say that could be us in 2016? |
Good point. I don't think we were far from making a similar jump this year. The gulf between us and the Dogs isn't as large as it seems right now. |
If we played the dogs at the MCG we would beat them.
McCartney's work in shaping up the dogs is massively underrated- he weeded out crap and instilled a strong work ethic and culture.
Confidence combined with youthful exuberance is a wondeful thing, and that is what has enabled the Dogs to do what they have.
Remember they lost to the Demons earlier in the year.
Perspective. |
And that, right there, is an example of the very point I've been making about the Welfare for weeks - against Melbourne in round 8 at the MCG, they managed 9 goals (which is about what they score away from Docklands), whereas yesterday at Docklands they kicked 24 goals.
I calculated their average scoring differential between games at Docklands and games away a few weeks ago and it was then exactly 50 points per game. The differential has only increased since that time (they've played three more games at Docklands and kicked 127, 128 and 153 points). If the Grand Final were played there, that would be a significant advantage for them but, as it's not, it's just the opposite. They have massive structural problems (mainly the absence of competent, full-size KPFs and KPDs) and until those are resolved they cannot compete in any match that matters. They are the same, in substance, as the little fleet of tinkerbelles there that consistently ran us of our legs between 2006 and 2009 but couldn't even get to a Grand Final.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - it is of no interest to me whether or not Collingwood merely plays finals, except to the extent that doing so may be an indicator that they are getting towards being able to win the big one. I have hated the way the 'Pies finished last season and this but I'd rather that than see a half-baked team pumped by a not-good-enough team in the first week of the finals.
Thus, I do not see making the finals as some indicator of success. That's a measure apt to the special position in the game of teams like the Blooz and Ninthmond and the Welfare and the Pauperoos and the Demons, My present interest is whether Collingwood's talent-pool looks like it is capable of developing to the point where it can match the elite teams. We can worry about whether we do or don't have a "finisher" coach when those hard yards have been done.
Every year that Collingwood doesn't at least play in the Grand Final ought to be seen as a let-down. Of course, realistically that can't always happen - but it has to be the aim. If you can't finish top 4, you probably can't make the Grand Final, so a top-4 finish must be Collingwood's basic target. Against that measure, it is a trivial question whether Collingwood wins 9 games or 13 games this season. And, unless and until the Welfare looks like they could play in a Grand Final and win, the relative position of the two clubs is quite irrelevant.
|
|
|
|
|
Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | More interestingly, the Dogs get most of their goals at Etihad - and by a very substantial margin. Remains to be seen if they can score enough against a good team at a serious football ground here finals are played. |
No one is expecting them to win the flag.
Most didn't expect them to play finals.
Some had them bottom 4.
What they have achieved is impressive and hands up who recognised more than 2/3 of the names in the dogs team today. |
Who is not to say that could be us in 2016? |
Good point. I don't think we were far from making a similar jump this year. The gulf between us and the Dogs isn't as large as it seems right now. |
If we played the dogs at the MCG we would beat them.
McCartney's work in shaping up the dogs is massively underrated- he weeded out crap and instilled a strong work ethic and culture.
Confidence combined with youthful exuberance is a wondeful thing, and that is what has enabled the Dogs to do what they have.
Remember they lost to the Demons earlier in the year.
Perspective. |
And that, right there, is an example of the very point I've been making about the Welfare for weeks - against Melbourne in round 8 at the MCG, they managed 9 goals (which is about what they score away from Docklands), whereas yesterday at Docklands they kicked 24 goals.
I calculated their average scoring differential between games at Docklands and games away a few weeks ago and it was then exactly 50 points per game. The differential has only increased since that time (they've played three more games at Docklands and kicked 127, 128 and 153 points). If the Grand Final were played there, that would be a significant advantage for them but, as it's not, it's just the opposite. They have massive structural problems (mainly the absence of competent, full-size KPFs and KPDs) and until those are resolved they cannot compete in any match that matters. They are the same, in substance, as the little fleet of tinkerbelles there that consistently ran us of our legs between 2006 and 2009 but couldn't even get to a Grand Final.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - it is of no interest to me whether or not Collingwood merely plays finals, except to the extent that doing so may be an indicator that they are getting towards being able to win the big one. I have hated the way the 'Pies finished last season and this but I'd rather that than see a half-baked team pumped by a not-good-enough team in the first week of the finals.
Thus, I do not see making the finals as some indicator of success. That's a measure apt to the special position in the game of teams like the Blooz and Ninthmond and the Welfare and the Pauperoos and the Demons, My present interest is whether Collingwood's talent-pool looks like it is capable of developing to the point where it can match the elite teams. We can worry about whether we do or don't have a "finisher" coach when those hard yards have been done.
Every year that Collingwood doesn't at least play in the Grand Final ought to be seen as a let-down. Of course, realistically that can't always happen - but it has to be the aim. If you can't finish top 4, you probably can't make the Grand Final, so a top-4 finish must be Collingwood's basic target. Against that measure, it is a trivial question whether Collingwood wins 9 games or 13 games this season. And, unless and until the Welfare looks like they could play in a Grand Final and win, the relative position of the two clubs is quite irrelevant. |
Frame that sh-t and put it on the wall. I agree 100%
We've played more finals than any other team going around. Made the GF with substandard teams too often to mention. Even in 2011 when we smashed the comp in the H&A, we limped to the line against a Danked up Geelong team that had sorted us out twice already that year.
Making the finals is nice but it's just window dressing and bit of experience for the kids. Winning finals is where it gets useful.
|
|
|
|
|
roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Yep, spot on.
_________________
kill for collingwood! |
|
|
|
|
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Double spot on. 
|
|
|
|
|
MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Yes
| Description: |
| Premiership Standard plot from 2010-2015 |
|
Download |
| Filename: |
PS.pdf |
| Filesize: |
90.88 KB |
| Downloaded: |
233 Time(s) |
_________________
All We Can Be |
|
|
|
|
Dangles
Balmey Army
Joined: 14 May 2015
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| We won eleven and lost eleven last year. We currently sit on nine wins with three games to go. I guess our win loss ratio at the end of the year will help answer this question.
|
|
|
|
|
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| We have definitely improved this year and have managed to blood half a dozen new players who will be important to our success over the next few years. However, we have not improved as much as I'd have hoped. We are still way too reliant on Swanny and Pendles to win us games, and we continue to have an unhealthy reliance on Cloke up forward. Both Witts and Grundy have improved, but again, not by as much as I'd hoped. The ruck is a key area where we need to find significant improvement if we are to become a genuine top side.
|
|
|
|
|
Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Dangles wrote: | | We won eleven and lost eleven last year. We currently sit on nine wins with three games to go. I guess our win loss ratio at the end of the year will help answer this question. |
With all due respect, this is utter rubbish. Unless you have the very same fixture every year, the comparison with previous seasons is bloody silly and extremely illogical.
Doesn't make any sense at all.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
|
|
|
|
jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| ^^ Actually our draw this season has been softer than last years but you are 100% correct, there are a squillion variables that should be factored in when doing a comparison of that sort.
|
|
|
|
|
Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| jackcass wrote: | | ^^ Actually our draw this season has been softer than last years but you are 100% correct, there are a squillion variables that should be factored in when doing a comparison of that sort. |
Exactly.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
|
|
|
|
3rd degree 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I think we have got better to run close to Hawtorn and Freo show we have stepped up. The handballing game is still hard to take. Our recruiting has been smart in what we have recieved in the way of ready made players. Varcoe and Crisp have been a big reason for our rise at the start of the year. We still miss Yagmoor's donuts however!
_________________
" Ohhh Banksy and out comes the Note Book".
www.facebook/the hybernators |
|
|
|
|
Dangles
Balmey Army
Joined: 14 May 2015
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Lazza wrote: | | Dangles wrote: | | We won eleven and lost eleven last year. We currently sit on nine wins with three games to go. I guess our win loss ratio at the end of the year will help answer this question. |
With all due respect, this is utter rubbish. Unless you have the very same fixture every year, the comparison with previous seasons is bloody silly and extremely illogical.
Doesn't make any sense at all. |
I said the win loss ratio will help answer the question. I didn't say it was the definitive measurement. You don't think clubs would compare their performance from one season to the next? You don't think Port are disappointed with this season after what they were able to achieve last year?
|
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
It isn't quite the same question as whether or not the team has improved but the Coach's view is that the team will fall short of the Club's expectations for the season:
"Our aim going into the season was to play in finals and win a final, and unless things go all our way in the last three weeks, we're going to fall short of that," Buckley said.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-19/pies-have-fallen-short-this-year-admits-buckley
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
