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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Would not have a clue about the cause of our injuries.
But, statistically no matter which way you look at it, there seems to be that our injuries could be considered as an outlier in comparison to the competition.
Is it way outside ....no... but it still is a concern.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| I may have missed something already covered but can those that are blaming the fitness staff for the injuries being suffered tell me precisely what the club is doing wrong and what it should be doing? If anyone can answer this please try to stick to facts not baseless unsubstantiated assumptions. And, don't give me the game plan answer as I am not 2 years old so cannot be convinced by that argument. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| thompsoc wrote: | Would not have a clue about the cause of our injuries.
But, statistically no matter which way you look at it, there seems to be that our injuries could be considered as an outlier in comparison to the competition.
Is it way outside ....no... but it still is a concern. |
And yet, despite us having more injuries to key players, Bucks has kept us competitive, unlike the way the Dockers have collapsed in a hole. Seems to me Bucks is a frigging genius to have us playing as well as we have. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Ok seriously most of our injuries have been just plain bad luck.
Adams and Varcoe doing there hamstrings for the first time is more than likely to do with increased game time (limited interchange) with fatigue.
Most soft tissue injuries during the game are fatigue related.
Hence the need to get miles in there legs in the preseason.
All codes do it now and they measure there loads with GPS tracking to ensure there loads (miles) aren't going over board.
When you factor in our game plan which is highly pressure based it stands to reason we may have more soft tissue injuries.
Looking over other clubs injuries ours isn't the worst in terms of soft tissue (the Suns is worse)
Scharenberg knee Ramsay knee Swan leg/foot Elliott back Moore collarbone Fasalo shoulder plus Toovey concussion Gault concussion Sinclair conduction are nothing to do with the game plan or training loads they are simple collision injuries and bad luck
So of our injury list/toll only Adams and Varcoe may have suffered from over work and that's more than likely to do with the AFL rule change than anything else |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Would not have a clue about the cause of our injuries.
But, statistically no matter which way you look at it, there seems to be that our injuries could be considered as an outlier in comparison to the competition.
Is it way outside ....no... but it still is a concern. |
And yet, despite us having more injuries to key players, Bucks has kept us competitive, unlike the way the Dockers have collapsed in a hole. Seems to me Bucks is a frigging genius to have us playing as well as we have. |
Competitive? You're kidding right?! I mean I know we have been a lot better last 2-3 weeks, but really this year so far has been nothing short of _shockingly horrid_!!! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
We aren't talking about yesterday in isolation. Since 2012 we have had epidemic levels on the injury list. For it to occur for 5 straight years, it has to be more than bad luck. I hope to hell that internally the club isn't saying 5 straight years of the league worst injury levels is due to bad luck. |
I would suggest our soft tissue injury rate has improved, even into this season, if there are statistics to the contrary I'd be glad to be proven wrong but I don't believe it will be the case. I again stress that a lot of the injuries we're currently suffering are down to incidents which are hard to prevent.
Elliot is suffering a chronic back injury which I doubt can be pegged solely on the medical/fitness team, if at all. Tyson has struggled with achilles tendinitis which again I wouldn't be blaming the medicos for. Then you look at a lot of the other guys we're missing/have missed and a lot of them are impact or ligament injuries.
How do you prevent an ACL or a broken collar bone? Is EVERY soft tissue injury ultimately preventable too? I don't believe so. |
We've had players such as Adams & Varcoe who have never had hamstring injuries in their AFL careers and different environments do major damage to their tendon and the other did his hamstring twice in 4 weeks. Marsh did his hamstring for the third time also in the first game, I'm not so sure our soft tissue profile has actually improved.
As for Elliot, he did his back last year. He missed a game and then he came back in but was clearly struggling. He then did the preseason and was pulled away from training as he had done his back again, another reinjury. Now he has had surgery and he will miss the entire season. I would suggest that when players are having reinjuries, there is something not right with the sports science team. |
1000% incorrect gonzo Elliott's injury is a genetic based spinal condition that had never previously been diagnosed or created any issues. He missed one game then came back in for a completely unrelated issue not his back. His back injury was noticed in the later part of the season after he was sent for scans for complaining about hamstring tightness. He has done next to no training this preseason or season at all. Several posters here have attended training regularly since the beginning of preseason and all noted he wasn't sighted or was walking laps with other players.
It's fine to make a thread and debate topics but don't make silly statements which are totally incorrect to try to prove a point against the club |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Would not have a clue about the cause of our injuries.
But, statistically no matter which way you look at it, there seems to be that our injuries could be considered as an outlier in comparison to the competition.
Is it way outside ....no... but it still is a concern. |
And yet, despite us having more injuries to key players, Bucks has kept us competitive, unlike the way the Dockers have collapsed in a hole. Seems to me Bucks is a frigging genius to have us playing as well as we have. |
Competitive? You're kidding right?! I mean I know we have been a lot better last 2-3 weeks, but really this year so far has been nothing short of _shockingly horrid_!!! |
It must be deeply troubling for you that the Mods locked the "Sack Buckley" thread. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Would not have a clue about the cause of our injuries.
But, statistically no matter which way you look at it, there seems to be that our injuries could be considered as an outlier in comparison to the competition.
Is it way outside ....no... but it still is a concern. |
And yet, despite us having more injuries to key players, Bucks has kept us competitive, unlike the way the Dockers have collapsed in a hole. Seems to me Bucks is a frigging genius to have us playing as well as we have. |
Competitive? You're kidding right?! I mean I know we have been a lot better last 2-3 weeks, but really this year so far has been nothing short of _shockingly horrid_!!! |
Apart from the Swans/drugs fiasco, we have been competitive in every game we've played, even the one's we've lost. In fact, we should have won the Melbourne, Carlton and Saints games. Even against the Eagles we were competitive. Our percentage shows we have not been getting smashed by anyone. That is a fact not an opinion. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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I suspect game plan and training loads are to blame, the only evidence I have is our seemingly endless bad luck when it comes to injuries, surely 5 str8 years can't be put down to luck.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
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Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
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| Bob Sugar wrote: | | I suspect game plan and training loads are to blame, the only evidence I have is our seemingly endless bad luck when it comes to injuries, surely 5 str8 years can't be put down to luck. |
Totally agree.
The gameplan is labour intensive and it relies on manic pressure to cause turnovers and lock the ball in the forward 50. It hasn't evolved from 2010.
That type of gameplan leads to injuries and that is multiplied if the list carrying it out doesn't have the physical maturity to carry it out. A big reason why we started both 2014 & 2015 at 8 & 3 and then fell in a heap in the second half as the side had run into a physical wall.
Just on the training loads, Howe said last week that the players urged the coaches to change the training days as they needed more recovery from the heavy sessions. Something is flawed. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| How did they win the flag in 2010 if that same game plan was used then? Wouldn't it have caused injuries then as well? Or are you just making up theories as you go along? |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | I don't think you can blame these injuries on anything but bad 'luck'.
A collarbone, a shoulder and a concussion, hardly things that are in our control. I guess you could perhaps look at Taylor's injury as being correlated to how he's been playing through a few niggles here and there but in the current situation I didn't disagree with playing him through some of those as we desperately needed him out there.
Some of our worst injuries are things that you can't really prevent, ie. contact injuries and knee ligaments, it's weird. |
We aren't talking about yesterday in isolation. Since 2012 we have had epidemic levels on the injury list. For it to occur for 5 straight years, it has to be more than bad luck. I hope to hell that internally the club isn't saying 5 straight years of the league worst injury levels is due to bad luck. |
I would suggest our soft tissue injury rate has improved, even into this season, if there are statistics to the contrary I'd be glad to be proven wrong but I don't believe it will be the case. I again stress that a lot of the injuries we're currently suffering are down to incidents which are hard to prevent.
Elliot is suffering a chronic back injury which I doubt can be pegged solely on the medical/fitness team, if at all. Tyson has struggled with achilles tendinitis which again I wouldn't be blaming the medicos for. Then you look at a lot of the other guys we're missing/have missed and a lot of them are impact or ligament injuries.
How do you prevent an ACL or a broken collar bone? Is EVERY soft tissue injury ultimately preventable too? I don't believe so. |
We've had players such as Adams & Varcoe who have never had hamstring injuries in their AFL careers and different environments do major damage to their tendon and the other did his hamstring twice in 4 weeks. Marsh did his hamstring for the third time also in the first game, I'm not so sure our soft tissue profile has actually improved.
As for Elliot, he did his back last year. He missed a game and then he came back in but was clearly struggling. He then did the preseason and was pulled away from training as he had done his back again, another reinjury. Now he has had surgery and he will miss the entire season. I would suggest that when players are having reinjuries, there is something not right with the sports science team. |
Jamie has a pre existing condition. His method of play, made it worse. Nothing to do with conditioning.
(Sorry Qld beat me too it! It's the cold getting to me!)
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | How did they win the flag in 2010 if that same game plan was used then? Wouldn't it have caused injuries then as well? Or are you just making up theories as you go along? |
In 2010, there was no restriction on rotations. Since the GF, they introduced a sub (cutting out one player from the bench) and it has reached a level where rotations have decreased so much so there is now a cap on them. You are now asking players to stay on the field longer without as many rotations as they had.
The 2010 side also had the luxury of being able to rotate very experienced players such as Fraser, O'Bree, Medhurst, Presti and the like in and out of the side until the youngsters made them redundant by season's end. This current list doesn't have such a luxury.
Last edited by Gonzalo on Tue May 31, 2016 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Would not have a clue about the cause of our injuries.
But, statistically no matter which way you look at it, there seems to be that our injuries could be considered as an outlier in comparison to the competition.
Is it way outside ....no... but it still is a concern. |
And yet, despite us having more injuries to key players, Bucks has kept us competitive, unlike the way the Dockers have collapsed in a hole. Seems to me Bucks is a frigging genius to have us playing as well as we have. |
Competitive? You're kidding right?! I mean I know we have been a lot better last 2-3 weeks, but really this year so far has been nothing short of _shockingly horrid_!!! |
Apart from the Swans/drugs fiasco, we have been competitive in every game we've played, even the one's we've lost. In fact, we should have won the Melbourne, Carlton and Saints games. Even against the Eagles we were competitive. Our percentage shows we have not been getting smashed by anyone. That is a fact not an opinion. |
RB, your loyalty does you credit but this particular view seems to be over-egging the pudding somewhat or, if you prefer, giving the trolls a free suck of the sauce-bottle. As a reasonably fair-minded supporter, not generally prone to over-reaction (I did once compare Leon Davis unfavourably to a cactus - but that remains, in my respectful opinion, an accurate summation of his game on the day), I would have said Collingwood was hopeless against the Swans, fair against Richmond (but we should have lost), pathetic against Melbourne, worse against St Kilda (who won the game, despite having injury problems, including having their all-time best player injured for the whole second-half - they only average 87 points for, despite having played Essendon, Melbourne, Fremantle and Port but somehow racked up 119 against us)), good against Essendon (like every other team in the competition, except Melbourne), lucky not to lose by 400 points to the Wiggles (OK, there's a little hyperbole in that but the game was well and truly over before our team quite got off the plane), unacceptably non-competitive against Carlton, good against Brisbane (like every other team in the competition, except Gold Coast), great for the first quarter and last quarter against Geelong and just good enough in the middle two quarters to hold them out) and we kicked 7 goals against a team with a dismal record away from Docklands. Hence, we are 4 wins and 6 losses. Happily, we have already played Hawthorn, Adelaide, North Melbourne and GWS - and we don't have to play West Coast again or Footscray at Docklands, so it's all easy from here. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Gonzalo, your argument falls down. Your position is that the change to rotations which only commenced this season caused the problem yet in your previous posts you bemoan the injuries which have been occurring since 2012 even though the game plan has not changed since 2010.You also overlook how young the 2010 team was. Looking at your posts I have the impression that you want to lay blame and keep adapting your reasons to whatever someone else says, but you are inconsistent. |
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