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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
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| schuey07 wrote: | | Duff Soviet Union wrote: | | schuey07 wrote: | | E wrote: | | schuey07 wrote: | | stoliboy wrote: | From Harry O'Brien
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rkhm62
It doesn't matter if you are a school teacher, a doctor or even the president of my football club I will not tolerate racism, nor should we as a society. Im extremely disappointed with Eddie's comments and do not care what position he holds, I disagree with what came out his mouth this morning on radio. To me Eddie's comments are reflective of common attitudes that we as a society face. To me Australia is very casual with racism, I would argue that many people in this country would not think what Eddie or the 13yr old girl said last friday is 'bad'. In my opinion race relations in this country is systematically a national disgrace and we have a long way to go to reach a more harmonious and empathetic society. |
Yep but is ok for Harry to call people fat, such a hypocrite. |
I think you will find the phrase was Fat F*ck. Calling an athlete whose skin folds have drifted to maybe 16% a fat **** is like calling a supermodel who gets a pimple ugly. Pretty sure it would be a case of "no offense taken". Calling an indigenous person an Ape when he probably got called that every single game he ever played as a kid growing up is very very different.
I am staggered you people don't get this. |
I said in the other thread I get it, but its only a word, which has lost it's meaning because the younger generation don't think like that. The people making the most out of this are the PC do Gooders who suffer from Anglo guilt because of their ancestors actions to indigenous Australians and then to the migrants that started to,arrive in the 50s.
I also said that I could tell you stories of real racism and not just words that members of my family went through when they first came to this country, but we are thick skinned and proud of who we are. The apologists out there are making this a bigger deal than it is because of their own issues and their own guilt. Adam Goodes is a cause to them and not a person, this is just another crusade for them to feel better about themselves and the sins of their ancestors. |
You mean PC do gooders suffering from Anglo guilt like Adam Goodes apparently does? |
No I'm talking about a few of the d$&khead self righteous posters in this thread. |
Your comment pretty clearly implied that minorities don't really care about copping racist abuse and it's only an issue because of those darn PC do gooders.
If people were white-knighting on behalf of someone who clearly didn't give a stuff about the whole thing, I'd be right there with you.
But Goodes was clearly upset about the whole thing. The fact that you personally don't find the word offensive is really beside the point.
I've posted it before, but I have much less of a problem with this 13 year old girl than I do with her army of apologists.
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"We ain't gotta dream no more" |
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stoliboy 
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| David wrote: |
| Quote: | | "All the kids at the school have been great," says Joanne [the girl's mother]. "They've turned it into a bit of a joke and everyone's been calling each other ape." |
Yeah, everybody really seems to have learned their lesson here.  |
At the risk of taking the same attitude that I'm so opposed to as the "you don't get it" brigade, well, it seems a fair few of you simply don't get it.
Is it not a great thing for society that young people of today don't link such words to such occurences??
Why the need to ram the point home??
She didn't know she was being racist, so by definition, she wasn't.
She wasn't calling an Aboriginal man an Ape, she was calling a man an Ape. Is this not what we are actually striving for as a society, equality??
It is a pretty long bow to draw, to link years of persecution for the black man to somebody being called a name on the footy field, but boy has that bow been drawn to the point of the bow snapping!!
The girl probably needs to be told to pull her head in and refrain from randomly yelling out insults to people. She doesn't need to be told she is racist.
In my opinion, the running commentary and the way this has been handled shows how backwards and insecure a lot of people are.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Is she someone you know? |
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schuey07 
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Location: Mount Waverley
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| King Monkey wrote: | | David wrote: |
| Quote: | | "All the kids at the school have been great," says Joanne [the girl's mother]. "They've turned it into a bit of a joke and everyone's been calling each other ape." |
Yeah, everybody really seems to have learned their lesson here. |
At the risk of taking the same attitude that I'm so opposed to as the "you don't get it" brigade, well, it seems a fair few of you simply don't get it.
Is it not a great thing for society that young people of today don't link such words to such occurences??
Why the need to ram the point home??
She didn't know she was being racist, so by definition, she wasn't.
She wasn't calling an Aboriginal man an Ape, she was calling a man an Ape. Is this not what we are actually striving for as a society, equality??
It is a pretty long bow to draw, to link years of persecution for the black man to somebody being called a name on the footy field, but boy has that bow been drawn to the point of the bow snapping!!
The girl probably needs to be told to pull her head in and refrain from randomly yelling out insults to people. She doesn't need to be told she is racist.
In my opinion, the running commentary and the way this has been handled shows how backwards and insecure a lot of people are. |
King Monkey you truly are as wise as the Buddha. This is what I’ve been trying to say. You have just said it a whole lot better. |
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Brenny
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Location: Westpac Centre
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^ I almost called Adam Goodes a baboon on Saturday.
Not to be racist, but because I had a kid no older than 4-5sitting next to me and I didn't think it was appropriate to swear whilst yelling.
I said shit a few times and the kid just glared at me... so I thought time to tone it down.
I did yell 'You' <long blank after I realised I'd be ejected for saying baboon> 'spud'... it backfired... he tore us a new one.
i wasn't going to yell baboon to be racist, in fact it didn't even occur to me that Goodes was aboriginal or black, I just looked at him incredibly pissed that he was running loose and wanted to yell something at a man... a human being.
I'm glad I didn't yell it in the end.
edit:
What shits me though is the fact that all of this makes me think I should start looking at people and thinking 'you're gay' or 'you're black' or 'you're african american' and adjust my life accordingly instead of thinking 'you're just another human being'. That's what's annoys me the bloody most!
Last edited by Brenny on Wed May 29, 2013 4:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| Joel wrote: | David, are you trying to say that kids shouldn't call each other apes now?
It's all about context. The kid's aren't being racist to each other, they are just trying to cheer the girl up. Yes, if they started calling a black kid an ape, that would be a different story. |
Haha, there it is!!!!!!!
So let me get this right - it would be ok for all the little white kiddies to go around calling each other apes to cheer up their friend, but they had better exclude the black kid(s) from this.
I would argue that that type of isolation would be far more racist than a word or a name.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| Brenny wrote: | ^ I almost called Adam Goodes a baboon on Saturday.
Not to be racist, but because I had a kid no older than 4-5sitting next to me and I didn't think it was appropriate to swear whilst yelling.
I said shit a few times and the kid just glared at me... so I thought time to tone it down.
I did yell 'You' <long blank after I realised I'd be ejected for saying baboon> 'spud'... it backfired... he tore us a new one.
i wasn't going to yell baboon to be racist, in fact it didn't even occur to me that Goodes was aboriginal or black, I just looked at him incredibly pissed that he was running loose and wanted to yell something at a man... a human being.
I'm glad I didn't yell it in the end.
edit:
What shits me though is the fact that all of this makes me think I should start looking at people and thinking 'you're gay' or 'you're black' or 'you're african american' and adjust my life accordingly instead of thinking 'you're just another human being'. That's what's annoys me the bloody most! |
Spot on Brenny.
The people calling everyone else racist, are the ones that would have you making a distinction based on their race before saying or doing anything!!
Irony at all?? I'd actually go with a stronger word than irony......
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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schuey07
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Location: Mount Waverley
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| Both of you guys have made the point I’ve been trying to make. Two really good posts from two good posters and you two haven’t stooped to the low of abusing those that don’t share the same opinion. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Tannin wrote: | Piesnchess, mate, ever heard of a place called Australia? Go and wash your mouth out with soap. Ever heard of Australian things, like - just to pick a random example, Australian Football? I honestly do not understand how people can love Australia and Australian Football, and other things about this wonderful country, and then turn around and piss our entire history and character up against the wall by thinking they are Americans.
We are NOT fnarking Americans. This is NOT fnarking Yankland, THE Civil War, obviously, is the one that took place in our past (about three quarters of us), and directly effects our history, our culture, and from which our entire system of government derives. It finished in 1651, the two most famous participants were King Charles the First and Oliver Cromwell, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with America.
(And as a pleasing side-note in this context, although one side apparently lost the Civil War, both sides won. Just 9 years afterwards came the Restoration of Charles II to the throne - but now subject to the counterbalancing authority of Parliament.)
If you want to talk about a foreign civil war which, for all its significance in that foreign country, barely affected Australia or anyone who lives in Australia, that's fine. The American Civil War was one of the most notable wars in modern history but unless you are a Yank living in Yankland it was not, is not, and never, ever will be "the" civil war. |
Tannin, mate I am a civil war buff, I have many books and dvds on it, the American one that is, I am a proud aussie, but with all due respect, I don't give a rats fat clacker about puritan roundheads and poncey royals. You DO realise the American civil war was a momentous event, had the CSA beat the USA, forming two nations, it would have changed not just American history, but WORLD history too.  
I used civil war to describe this confrontation thread between Pies fans, and I declared peace in a satire effect. Jeeesus mate, bit slow on the uptake aren't we ?? ITS SATIRE for gods sake, im not writing a thesis or something .
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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FWIW I like eddie, but by jeez, he aint the sharpest tool in the shed. sigh.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| schuey07 wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | | David wrote: |
| Quote: | | "All the kids at the school have been great," says Joanne [the girl's mother]. "They've turned it into a bit of a joke and everyone's been calling each other ape." |
Yeah, everybody really seems to have learned their lesson here. |
At the risk of taking the same attitude that I'm so opposed to as the "you don't get it" brigade, well, it seems a fair few of you simply don't get it.
Is it not a great thing for society that young people of today don't link such words to such occurences??
Why the need to ram the point home??
She didn't know she was being racist, so by definition, she wasn't.
She wasn't calling an Aboriginal man an Ape, she was calling a man an Ape. Is this not what we are actually striving for as a society, equality??
It is a pretty long bow to draw, to link years of persecution for the black man to somebody being called a name on the footy field, but boy has that bow been drawn to the point of the bow snapping!!
The girl probably needs to be told to pull her head in and refrain from randomly yelling out insults to people. She doesn't need to be told she is racist.
In my opinion, the running commentary and the way this has been handled shows how backwards and insecure a lot of people are. |
King Monkey you truly are as wise as the Buddha. This is what I’ve been trying to say. You have just said it a whole lot better. |
Lol. I'm still on a journey to seek the metaphorical scriptures of enlightenment, as wise as the Buddha I am not. (although I did take a leak on his/her hand when I thought I'd flown to the end of the universe!! Lol.)
Some things I've heard and read over the last few days would lead me to believe those scriptures actually do exist, multiple copies, and they are hanging on a few people's bedroom walls.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| David wrote: | | Joel wrote: | David, are you trying to say that kids shouldn't call each other apes now?
It's all about context. The kid's aren't being racist to each other, they are just trying to cheer the girl up. Yes, if they started calling a black kid an ape, that would be a different story. |
They're doing it because they think the whole thing is funny. Do you think that's what Goodes wanted to achieve by taking a stand on this? The whole point was that he found the term hurtful and offensive and wanted to point out that it wasn't appropriate. I just hope there are no Aboriginal kids at that school.
I don't blame 13 year old kids of course; they were always going to react like this. I'm just concerned that the mother seems to think this is a good result. |
I dunno, way back at school I had a good mate named Helmut, and he copped heaps, like nazi, hun, kraut, etc, and he just laughed it off. His dad served in the WERMACHT too, passed away young. Pity Goodes cant talk to Helmut, hed set him straight about personal insults, and HTFU. 
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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I hope the 13 year old girl seeks out Goodes and apologise on behalf of Eddie.
_________________
Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| King Monkey wrote: | At the risk of taking the same attitude that I'm so opposed to as the "you don't get it" brigade, well, it seems a fair few of you simply don't get it.
Is it not a great thing for society that young people of today don't link such words to such occurences??
Why the need to ram the point home??
She didn't know she was being racist, so by definition, she wasn't.
She wasn't calling an Aboriginal man an Ape, she was calling a man an Ape. Is this not what we are actually striving for as a society, equality??
It is a pretty long bow to draw, to link years of persecution for the black man to somebody being called a name on the footy field, but boy has that bow been drawn to the point of the bow snapping!!
The girl probably needs to be told to pull her head in and refrain from randomly yelling out insults to people. She doesn't need to be told she is racist.
In my opinion, the running commentary and the way this has been handled shows how backwards and insecure a lot of people are. |
I see your point, but like another poster you're being quite presumptuous in assuming as fact that she had no racist intent. How could you possibly know that? She isn't 4; she's a teenager who's grown up in (I think someone said) Moe, which is hardly the most enlightened place in the world. I think it's fair enough to state that it's possible that she had no idea what it meant, but it's a long way from certain.
Anyway, as I've reiterated throughout this thread, it was never really about her intention. The important thing was to point out that this was an extremely offensive thing to say to an Aboriginal person and completely unacceptable, and I totally support Goodes in doing that. It seems like the police may have overreacted by taking her in for questioning, and the girl shouldn't have been removed without being accompanied by her guardian, but otherwise it all seems to have been handled reasonably well.
If there's anything we could have all learned from this, it should have been that this insult is highly offensive to Aboriginal people and, even if not meant as a racial slur, should probably be avoided. Instead, we hear from her mother that her classmates seem to think it's all a big joke and are now playfully using it on each other, and that she thinks this is a good thing. Obviously her daughter's welfare comes first and foremost, but all I get from that is (and I got the same impression from the TV news story) that her daughter is the victim here and that this is all more or less a big storm in a teacup.
Something many of the so-called 'PC brigade' (as well as those who hate them) don't get is that this isn't just about this or that word being banned. It's about words being used in a certain context and being interpreted in a certain way. If that means just not using it as an insult directed at people of Aboriginal or African descent, then so be it. That may seem segregationist to you, but the fact is that you can't speak for an Aboriginal kid who might be the recipient of these taunts and you don't know how they're going to be interpreted.
Perhaps it would be better if we all lived in a society blissfully unaware of racism and racial slurs, but we don't. We live in a world in which words like 'ape' are directed at black people with the whole hurtful meaning intended; in which such terms are used to bully and intimidate others. Those 13 year-old kids aren't somehow quarantined from all this, either. In a few short years, they'll be entering the workplace; in the meantime, they're at schools along with kids from different backgrounds. They're certainly not too young to learn about this stuff and understand it. We can stop teaching people about racism when it stops existing. Sound fair?
Brenny, I'm curious: why did you end up refraining from using that term? Baboon isn't a swear word, obviously, so something in your brain clicked that maybe it wasn't a very good thing to yell out. The fact that it struck you that you might be kicked out means that you knew on some level that there might be something wrong with it. Seems like your subconscious made the right call.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Wed May 29, 2013 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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