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stoliboy 
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW
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AFL to deal with McGuire: full statement
5:53pm May 29, 2013
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-05-29/afl-to-deal-with-mcguire-full-statement?utm_medium=RSS
AFL CHIEF executive officer Andrew Demetriou says that on-air comments by Collingwood president Eddie McGuire were being dealt with under rule 30 of the AFL player rules
"Mr McGuire's comments about Sydney Swans player Adam Goodes were extremely disappointing and totally unacceptable," Mr Demetriou said.
"Given the impact they have had on Mr Goodes as well as the Sydney Swans and the wider football community, the AFL has deemed that Mr McGuire, as a club president, must go through the Racial and Religious Vilification Policy process required by the AFL player rules.
"Mr McGuire's ill-judged comments have clearly compounded the hurt caused to Mr Goodes by the incident last Friday night. As a result, Mr McGuire will be treated under the rules as we would anyone else within the AFL competition.
"The AFL has worked hard over many years to eliminate all forms of racism from the game, and we will continue to do so through our policies, educational programs and by the example we set.
"I have spoken with Eddie McGuire today and he has reiterated to me his strong and ongoing commitment to a range of indigenous programs undertaken by the AFL and the Collingwood Football Club, and also to the AFL's Racial and Religious Vilification Policy."
As per the AFL player rules, Mr Demetriou said that any vilification matter initially required the two parties to speak, either directly or as part of a mediation process. This first step is to be followed by involvement in the AFL's relevant education programs by the person who made the comments.
Mr Demetriou said Mr McGuire had today spoken with Mr Goodes and that his apology had been accepted by Mr Goodes.
"This is an important first element of the established process. In the coming days the AFL will meet with Mr McGuire to implement the next steps under our Racial and Religious Vilification Policy."
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| David wrote: | | Do you think that's what Goodes wanted to achieve by taking a stand on this? |
No, its not what he wanted to achieve, after one a half weeks looking at ads and pictures of Winmmar with his belly exposed, and all the hype of indigenous round, playing against the very club who had taunted Winmmar, I think he wanted his moment. Lets see, 2 brownlow medals, 2 premiership medals, numerous other achievements, and now his very own Winmmar moment, Goodes is now the most famous aboriginal to ever play the great game, mission accomplished.
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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^ That's a very saddening attitude, PM. A little empathy wouldn't go astray.
Goodes didn't set out to be racially abused, just as he never set out to be racially abused in the past when these (and other) taunts were directed at him in the past. What he did was actually quite brave, and only a cynic or someone with an agenda would have reason to think that he did it out of some desire for self-aggrandisement.
I wasn't disappointed by my football club on Friday night. I am now.
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Last edited by David on Wed May 29, 2013 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | At the risk of taking the same attitude that I'm so opposed to as the "you don't get it" brigade, well, it seems a fair few of you simply don't get it.
Is it not a great thing for society that young people of today don't link such words to such occurences??
Why the need to ram the point home??
She didn't know she was being racist, so by definition, she wasn't.
She wasn't calling an Aboriginal man an Ape, she was calling a man an Ape. Is this not what we are actually striving for as a society, equality??
It is a pretty long bow to draw, to link years of persecution for the black man to somebody being called a name on the footy field, but boy has that bow been drawn to the point of the bow snapping!!
The girl probably needs to be told to pull her head in and refrain from randomly yelling out insults to people. She doesn't need to be told she is racist.
In my opinion, the running commentary and the way this has been handled shows how backwards and insecure a lot of people are. |
I see your point, but like another poster you're being quite presumptuous in assuming as fact that she had no racist intent. How could you possibly know that? She isn't 4; she's a teenager who's grown up in (I think someone said) Moe, which is hardly the most enlightened place in the world. I think it's fair enough to state that it's possible that she had no idea what it meant, but it's a long way from certain.
Anyway, as I've reiterated throughout this thread, it was never really about her intention. The important thing was to point out that this was an extremely offensive thing to say to an Aboriginal person and completely unacceptable, and I totally support Goodes in doing that. It seems like the police may have overreacted by taking her in for questioning, and the girl shouldn't have been removed without being accompanied by her guardian, but otherwise it all seems to have been handled reasonably well.
If there's anything we could have all learned from this, it should have been that this insult is highly offensive to Aboriginal people and, even if not meant as a racial slur, should probably be avoided. Instead, we hear from her mother that her classmates seem to think it's all a big joke and are now playfully using it on each other, and that she thinks this is a good thing. Obviously her daughter's welfare comes first and foremost, but all I get from that is (and I got the same impression from the TV news story) that her daughter is the victim here and that this is all more or less a big storm in a teacup.
Something many of the so-called 'PC brigade' (as well as those who hate them) don't get is that this isn't just about this or that word being banned. It's about words being used in a certain context and being interpreted in a certain way. If that means just not using it as an insult directed at people of Aboriginal or African descent, then so be it. That may seem segregationist to you, but the fact is that you can't speak for an Aboriginal kid who might be the recipient of these taunts and you don't know how they're going to be interpreted.
Perhaps it would be better if we all lived in a society blissfully unaware of racism and racial slurs, but we don't. We live in a world in which words like 'ape' are directed at black people with the whole hurtful meaning intended; in which such terms are used to bully and intimidate others. Those 13 year-old kids aren't somehow quarantined from all this, either. In a few short years, they'll be entering the workplace; in the meantime, they're at schools along with kids from different backgrounds. They're certainly not too young to learn about this stuff and understand it. We can stop teaching people about racism when it stops existing. Sound fair?
Brenny, I'm curious: why did you end up refraining from using that term? Baboon isn't a swear word, obviously, so something in your brain clicked that maybe it wasn't a very good thing to yell out. The fact that it struck you that you might be kicked out means that you knew on some level that there might be something wrong with it. Seems like your subconscious made the right call. |
Good post. Whether the girl was meaning to be racist or not is mostly beside the point (other than in our feelings towards her). And yes, as you and King Monkey both say, it would be a more ideal world if we could use whatever words we like to whatever race and for them not to be offensive. The world is not ideal. Racism does exist. These words do have power and sensitivity needs to be shown. If for nothing else, Goodes making a stand has at least highlighted this.
Greg Baum on the same issue: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/goodes-critics-way-off-mark-20130527-2n7kr.html
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Well done boys! |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| David wrote: | | ^ That's a very sad attitude, PM. A little empathy wouldn't go astray. |
Just consider David, everyone keeps carping on about this 13 year old girl and her wicked crime against humanity, do they even realise she has been 13 for all of about 6 weeks. She has more than likely led a less informed life due to where she lives and and here social status and the majority want her drawn and quartered.
Weve been over this before, but most kids at 12 to 14 are pretty uninformed, and the lions share wouldn't have a clue that ape is an old world racial insult. Everyone is so quick to put Goodes behavior up on a pedestal, but even after she had apologized and took responsibility for something she fully didn't understand, Goodes still chose to call her the face of racism, f@#k me swinging.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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^^Most people are offering very little criticism of the girl. She made a stupid comment, possibly in partial or complete ignorance, and has now apologised. That's the end of the matter for her, as far as I'm concerned.
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Well done boys! |
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Brenny
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Location: Westpac Centre
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| David wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | At the risk of taking the same attitude that I'm so opposed to as the "you don't get it" brigade, well, it seems a fair few of you simply don't get it.
Is it not a great thing for society that young people of today don't link such words to such occurences??
Why the need to ram the point home??
She didn't know she was being racist, so by definition, she wasn't.
She wasn't calling an Aboriginal man an Ape, she was calling a man an Ape. Is this not what we are actually striving for as a society, equality??
It is a pretty long bow to draw, to link years of persecution for the black man to somebody being called a name on the footy field, but boy has that bow been drawn to the point of the bow snapping!!
The girl probably needs to be told to pull her head in and refrain from randomly yelling out insults to people. She doesn't need to be told she is racist.
In my opinion, the running commentary and the way this has been handled shows how backwards and insecure a lot of people are. |
I see your point, but like another poster you're being quite presumptuous in assuming as fact that she had no racist intent. How could you possibly know that? She isn't 4; she's a teenager who's grown up in (I think someone said) Moe, which is hardly the most enlightened place in the world. I think it's fair enough to state that it's possible that she had no idea what it meant, but it's a long way from certain.
Anyway, as I've reiterated throughout this thread, it was never really about her intention. The important thing was to point out that this was an extremely offensive thing to say to an Aboriginal person and completely unacceptable, and I totally support Goodes in doing that. It seems like the police may have overreacted by taking her in for questioning, and the girl shouldn't have been removed without being accompanied by her guardian, but otherwise it all seems to have been handled reasonably well.
If there's anything we could have all learned from this, it should have been that this insult is highly offensive to Aboriginal people and, even if not meant as a racial slur, should probably be avoided. Instead, we hear from her mother that her classmates seem to think it's all a big joke and are now playfully using it on each other, and that she thinks this is a good thing. Obviously her daughter's welfare comes first and foremost, but all I get from that is (and I got the same impression from the TV news story) that her daughter is the victim here and that this is all more or less a big storm in a teacup.
Something many of the so-called 'PC brigade' (as well as those who hate them) don't get is that this isn't just about this or that word being banned. It's about words being used in a certain context and being interpreted in a certain way. If that means just not using it as an insult directed at people of Aboriginal or African descent, then so be it. That may seem segregationist to you, but the fact is that you can't speak for an Aboriginal kid who might be the recipient of these taunts and you don't know how they're going to be interpreted.
Perhaps it would be better if we all lived in a society blissfully unaware of racism and racial slurs, but we don't. We live in a world in which words like 'ape' are directed at black people with the whole hurtful meaning intended; in which such terms are used to bully and intimidate others. Those 13 year-old kids aren't somehow quarantined from all this, either. In a few short years, they'll be entering the workplace; in the meantime, they're at schools along with kids from different backgrounds. They're certainly not too young to learn about this stuff and understand it. We can stop teaching people about racism when it stops existing. Sound fair?
Brenny, I'm curious: why did you end up refraining from using that term? Baboon isn't a swear word, obviously, so something in your brain clicked that maybe it wasn't a very good thing to yell out. The fact that it struck you that you might be kicked out means that you knew on some level that there might be something wrong with it. Seems like your subconscious made the right call. |
Agree whole heartedly.
At the time of thinking to yell out the term, I didn't for one second think of Adam Goodes as black, aboriginal or some kind of minority group. I thought of him as another human being who is kicking our arse and I can't understand why he has so much space.
At the time of then yelling it, I thought wait, somebody might find this offensive so I pulled back. As you said, my subconscious was correct.
I might not agree with having to think of people in certain ways and I honestly do believe that me thinking of him in the first instance as a human is a better way to go about life, but I do know that's not the case. it's not reality. It's an ideology.
Then knowing that it could offend somebody, rightly or wrongly, i refrained from blurting it out. I think it's more right. |
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Duff Soviet Union
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | ^^Most people are offering very little criticism of the girl. She made a stupid comment, possibly in partial or complete ignorance, and has now apologised. That's the end of the matter for her, as far as I'm concerned. |
Exactly. A lot of people seem to be trying too hard to make this girl into a victim. Even people who are sticking up for Goodes and his right to take offence seem to think that it's somewhere between possible and likely that she didn't know that what she was saying was so offensive. I haven't seen anyone being that hard on her. Note: I don't refresh Facebook every 5 minutes and she probably shouldn't either.
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"We ain't gotta dream no more" |
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slydog81
Joined: 05 Sep 2011
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Ed must go
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We're always up to mischief! |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| slydog81 wrote: | | Ed must go |
So Bucks can stay then?
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ANNODAM 
Rebel Heart Tour - The Forum, Los Angeles 27/10/2015.
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Eltham, VIC.
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This girl could have special needs for all we know too, just sayin'...
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stoliboy
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW
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A US internet news show called "The Young Turks" has discussed the Goodes incident on their show.
It is a leftie show (I'm sure Jack Spain is a regular viewer). They debate whether or not Goodes should have got her kicked out of the stadium in such a public way considering her age.
Why Did This Star Athlete Throw a 13 Year Old Out From a Stadium?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwUOL4kFCbo
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Ugh, that show comes up every time I look for Daily Show clips. I tend to agree with them politically, but that host is such a buffoon.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | | Ugh, that show comes up every time I look for Daily Show clips. I tend to agree with them politically, but that host is such a buffoon. |
Wow, you're not kidding.
"Young girl, you know, in the audience I guess" 
edit: okay, watched a little further. The girl at the start may not have been the host you were referring to, but my point still stands.
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Well done boys! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I was referring to the guy, but neither are the sharpest tools in the shed. I mean, what are they even doing here with this 'guilty/not guilty' stuff? *Sigh*
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