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| Do you want the Collingwood club song's words changed, in particular the word "cakewalk"? |
| 1) No. I do not want any changes to the words. |
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79% |
[ 39 ] |
| 2) Maybe. I am unsure and might be persuaded either way. |
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8% |
[ 4 ] |
| 3) Yes. I want change(s) to the word(s), AND I cannot be bothered reading through the options below to specify exactly what change(s). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 4) Yes. Specifically, I want only a one-word change (replace "cakewalk"). |
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6% |
[ 3 ] |
| 5) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "There is just one team we favour" (the Club's failed 1983 version). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 6) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For the Magpie Army's faithful" (To...). |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| 7) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For the courage is unfailing" (At...). |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 8) Yes. Specifically, I want the one-line change "For I hear the magpie calling". |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| 9) Yes. I want change(s) to the words, AND my specific preference is none of the above. |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 49 |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | Not that Wikipedia is the greatest of resources but I didn’t see this point mentioned yet ...
<snip>
The alternative description of Cakewalk ... as derived from a very simple English fairground game - which seems to me a more likely connection than the American one, and isn’t racist |
Is that really what that Wikipedia article claims? Are you sure? (It didn't seem so at a quick glance, and I fear more than a quick glance at Wikipedia might expose me to some sort of fatal disease, such as Naegleria meningoencephalitis.) There are no reputable (or disreputable) sources I can find that claim something other than the slavery origins.
[Repeat, though: this is not one of the main issues people here have with the word in our song.]
| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | | K wrote: | | Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | | ... As for the psychology... you only need to watch the players singing it after a win to know the reality there ... |
How players sing a song after a win tells us nothing whatsoever about the psychological effect of words. |
In your opinion. They’re obviously not ashamed or embarrassed by them
... |
Different people may have different views, so some people may well believe the players are embarrassed by the word, but that was never a view I have expressed. Player "song shame" is not what we think the potential source of psychological harm is. (e.g. Read the comments of PPie on the previous page -- also my last two comments.) |
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Bucks5 
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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I imagine the discussions among the playing group would go like something like this....
Player X: So, do you feel weird singing 'the premiership's a cakewalk' when we can't win the f@%#king thing?
Player Y: Well it is up to us to pull our fingers out and make it happen.
I cannot see anything wrong in that. Sounds more motivating than unmotivating.
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How would Siri know when to answer "Hey Siri" unless it is listening in to everything you say? |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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this is easily the stupidest thread ever which makes it the perfect thread as we wait for the real stuff to begin.
I dont buy the racist insinuation. That line of argument is crap.
I dont think it effects our performance on the field and i dont think any player gives a rats arse about the implications of the words.
i like tradition and think we should keep it. So do most people.
This song is really most needed so we have something to sing over and over again the night we win the flag. Dont you WANT to be able to belt this second last line out with emphasis at that time???? It served us well in 2010 IIRC!
Mic drop.....
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| E wrote: |
This song is really most needed so we have something to sing over and over again the night we win the flag. Dont you WANT to be able to belt this second last line out with emphasis at that time???? It served us well in 2010 IIRC!
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Well, we can always reserve the confounded line until we actually win a premiership again and trot it out then!!! It would have far, far more meaning and relevance then, than singing it after we beat the bottom placed team (assuming that will happen again!  |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Bucks5 wrote: | I imagine the discussions among the playing group would go like something like this....
Player X: So, do you feel weird singing 'the premiership's a cakewalk' when we can't win the f@%#king thing?
Player Y: Well it is up to us to pull our fingers out and make it happen.
I cannot see anything wrong in that. Sounds more motivating than unmotivating. |
Another alternative to the above imaginary conversation:
Player Y: Yeah, most ridiculous f@%#king notion I've ever heard. Wish we could get rid of it!! |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: |
I will go as far as to say that nobody has ever won OR lost a premiership as a result of the wording of their team song |
How can you actually know this though????
On the contrary, I reckon the barn-storming passion with which the supporters and team sang Richmond's brilliant song throughout the latter half of 2018 sure helped them get to the ultimate goal. I don't actually know, but I will go so far as to say it.  |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| K wrote: | | PyreneesPie wrote: | ...
Just thinking......there is scientific evidence that setting unrealistic, unattainable expectations in any way has far more negative consequences than beneficial ones. Conversely, setting or expressing attainable, measurable expectations can provide great incentive. Do you want me to bore you silly by listing articles here?
... |
Sure; go ahead! Why not? No one is actually forced to read an article just because it is mentioned in someone's comment. No one is forced to read anything.
It's not that the word's suggestion is unrealistic that I find the most troubling. It's that it says the goal is extremely easy. Essentially by definition, it's saying that little or no effort is required. How dangerous a notion that is! It'd be less dangerous if it said, "Oh! We've won a thousand premierships." |
Hey K, this is certainly a valid comment you make. It could probably go either way - make something complex sound ridiculously easy and not enough effort is applied vs make something unattainable and set yourselves up for failure. Either way, the premiership being a cakewalk is an absurd notion IMHO.
As it's already 35 degrees where I am and I can't be stuffed to look up specific articles right now.... maybe later. If folks would like to to do their own research, then just google these terms:
1) the dangers of unattainable goals
When I googled the above, the first quote that came up was " | Quote: | | The consequences of unrealistic goals are significant. Not reaching goals results in negative emotions: disappointment, frustration, and feeling like a failure. It also makes you more likely to quit, be even less healthy, and claim that your genetics make success impossible. |
2) how to set achievable goals
| Quote: | | Likewise Set Attainable Goals. Make sure that it's possible to achieve the goals you set. . |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Bucks5 wrote: | I imagine the discussions among the playing group would go like something like this....
... |
No. I don't imagine there would be any discussions of any kind among the playing group. That's not how (e.g.) priming or other cognitive biases work.
And it's not about whether they like or dislike something either. As I stated before:
How is "cakewalk" consistent with the message Hine is trying to get across? It'd be less contrary to his message to sing about the club having won 1000 premierships than about how easy it all is. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| E wrote: | this is easily the stupidest thread ever ...
I dont buy ... That line of argument is crap.
I dont think ... and i dont think ...
i like tradition and think we should keep it. So do most people.
.... |
Well, you've said many threads are "stupidest ever", so either Nick's is constantly setting new records in your eyes or this is just an empty thing you say constantly.
As for the rest of what you say: well, you're entitled to your biases, but there were zero arguments, good or bad, in your post. Only a lot of claims --- including the repetition of the highly debatable suggestion this has anything whatsoever to do with tradition. (It's likely more to do with psychological discomfort in the face of any suggestion of alteration to the status quo.)
Last edited by K on Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: |
I will go as far as to say that nobody has ever won OR lost a premiership as a result of the wording of their team song |
How can you actually know this though????
On the contrary, I reckon the barn-storming passion with which the supporters and team sang Richmond's brilliant song throughout the latter half of 2018 sure helped them get to the ultimate goal. I don't actually know, but I will go so far as to say it. |
Yep. Quote from another thread: "Fitness will never win you a championship, but it could lose you one" (Burgess). You can say the same about psychological factors: "Psychology will never win you a championship, but it could lose you one." Really, what that's saying, of course, is that fitness on its own won't be sufficient, but if that's the only factor separating you and your GF opponent then it in effect has won you the premiership.
As for Richmond's allegedly brilliant song:
FWIW, the words -- well at least one word (I can tell you which if you're curious, or even if you're not) -- of Richmond's song were changed in the latest official recording. (The AFL said they only changed lyrics at the clubs' request.) Some of their supporters think this was a correction of an incorrect word in the previous recording. How old was the previous recording? I guess a few decades, right?* Correction or not, I think the 1972 version they used officially until now makes more sense. I wonder which version their supporters have been singing all this time.
* Almost half a century, actually: 1972.
Last edited by K on Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SteveH67
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Location: Canberra, Australia
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It's stupid to still have 'cakewalk' in our club song, when clearly it's hasn't been for more than 50 years now.
Another GF loss in 2018, certainly tipped me over the edge to get ask for it to be changed.
Coming 2nd certainly is a 'cakewalk'
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Social club member 7342 since 2000. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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But they don't sing it when we come second 
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | Bucks5 wrote: | I imagine the discussions among the playing group would go like something like this....
Player X: So, do you feel weird singing 'the premiership's a cakewalk' when we can't win the f@%#king thing?
Player Y: Well it is up to us to pull our fingers out and make it happen.
I cannot see anything wrong in that. Sounds more motivating than unmotivating. |
Another alternative to the above imaginary conversation:
Player Y: Yeah, most ridiculous f@%#king notion I've ever heard. Wish we could get rid of it!! |
When a majority of players are complaining about it and saying they feel embarrassed to sing it, then we can think about changing it (maybe). But they’re not, because no-one is bothered by it, and even if they were, they’d realise that these symbols are bigger than them. Until then, it seems like it’d be pointless vandalism to be messing with this for no good reason (and the only ones offered have been extremely speculative and hypothetical).
Basically, this is all quite simple. It ain’t broke. Don’t fix it.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| David wrote: | | ... Basically, this is all quite simple. It ain’t broke. Don’t fix it. |
In general, that's a very dangerous saying. If we really believed that, we'd have none of modern society's benefits.
Specifically on the song, we're never going to agree on what "broke" and "unbroke" might mean, because lyrics are not like, say, plumbing, so it'd be hard to apply that saying even if it weren't dangerous. (I think the non-rhyme of "cakewalk" with "shouting" is a sign that the lyrics were "unfinished".)
More broadly, this discussion arose as part of the "GF curses" discussion. Anyone who thinks our GF performance is not "broke" is probably living in denial. (Which is not to say that the topic of this thread is the only or the main reason.)
* And, again, it's not about what the players feel. The players are unlikely to think about such things. That's not how dangerous subliminal influences work. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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“Dangerous subliminal influences”.  K, you’re just messing with us now, aren’t you?
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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