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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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Condolences TP to you and your family
Thank you to all of you for sharing your stories and your assistance, its helped to clarify a few things and gives me some options moving forward, I really appreciate it. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Thanks WPT and Eddie, much appreciated xxx
and Good luck Eddie, cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Worth reading the report in detail:
| Quote: | An investigation by the state's ombudsman, Deborah Glass, said health officials had agreed to the need for a lockdown on July 4, and they expected it would start the following day which would give them time for planning food supplies and other logistics.
[...]
The investigation found the temporary lockdown, which was lifted at eight of the nine towers within five days, was warranted.
But the timing of that lockdown was not based on direct public health advice.
"In my opinion… the action appeared to be contrary to the law," Ms Glass said.
"The rushed lockdown was not compatible with the residents' human rights, including their right to humane treatment when deprived of liberty."
[...]
Ms Glass recommended the Government apologise to tower residents.
"Many residents knew nothing of the lockdown or the reason for it when large numbers of police appeared on their estate that afternoon," she said.
"Some people were without food and medicines.
"At the tower at 33 Alfred Street… residents waited more than a week to be allowed outside under supervision to get fresh air." |
This is the core of the matter: you can agree 100% with the decision to lock down the towers and with the extreme way that lockdown was handled, and still acknowledge that residents should have been warned and given time to prepare. Glass is right to point that out, and Andrews should apologise.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Given time to spread the virus, you mean.
No.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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It was futile anyway; look what happened a few weeks later. Maybe affording the residents the dignity and respect to spend a little time preparing for their lives being turned upside down for days on end would have made that second wave slightly worse, but in hindsight it would have been an insignificant difference. I believed at the time that the city as a whole should go back into Stage 3 immediately, but instead Andrews and co. wasted a week tormenting impoverished people in a bid to avoid that (as it turned out, inevitable) outcome.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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It was NOT futile. It prevented many, many more infections. The true number will never be known, but certainly hundreds, very likely thousands, and quite possibly many thousands - if a turbo-charged hurricane of infection such as a place like those towers could generate had got out, our health and welfare systems would have been utterly swamped.
Don't believe me? Wake up and smell the coffee. Look at the USA. Look at Spain. Look at any place where they didn't take infection control seriously.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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But don't forget that this was before even the first stage of the second lockdown, and before the statewide mask mandate, etc. Had those been brought forward and the tower lockdowns loosened (or slightly delayed, which is all that Glass is suggesting should have happened), it seems entirely likely to me that the cost of the latter would have been at the very least balanced out – and, indeed, that the outcome would have been substantially better. If letting a few hundred public housing residents do last-minute shopping for 24 hours would have had catastrophic consequences, how much more did leaving most of the city free to operate as normal for another four whole days (when it ought to have been clear that things weren't getting under control and were only going to get worse)?
And lest anyone suggest that I'm only writing this with the benefit of hindsight, I did suggest exactly this in the original COVID-19 thread on 6 July (two days after the towers had gone into lockdown and two days before the entirety of Melbourne went into Stage 3 restrictions):
| David wrote: | | roar wrote: | | David wrote: | | I have to say that I’m appalled by the abject cruelty of this tower block lockdown. How can anyone support this? |
Needs to be done to halt the spread of corona and avoid a total state lockdown. Simple as that. What would be your solution?
There are people in the towers that are thankful this is occurring because they understand the situation and realise that if it doesn't happen, it will be worse for everyone. |
A state lockdown for a few weeks of the kind we saw in March–April would be more reasonable than turning cramped apartment blocks into prisons (thus increasing their vulnerability to the virus), imho. |
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | | It was futile anyway; look what happened a few weeks later. Maybe affording the residents the dignity and respect to spend a little time preparing for their lives being turned upside down for days on end would have made that second wave slightly worse, but in hindsight it would have been an insignificant difference. I believed at the time that the city as a whole should go back into Stage 3 immediately, but instead Andrews and co. wasted a week tormenting impoverished people in a bid to avoid that (as it turned out, inevitable) outcome. |
Tormenting impoverished people indeed 🙄
Can you catastrophise it anymore?
I suspect between you and me one of us knows the flats and some of the residents reasonably well.
The right thing was done at the time period. Lives mattered not some retrospective “I was right all along” with the benefit of hindsight and without any responsibility attitude (which I suspect was not ur intention)
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Bucks5
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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There are two parts to the equation. The first part is to ask whether the lock down was a deprivation of their liberties? Probably and the ombudsman has called out that it was a breech of the residents human rights.
But the next part is to determine whether the breech was justified. The ombudsman says it was warranted so she has agreed it was.
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How would Siri know when to answer "Hey Siri" unless it is listening in to everything you say? |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Did the tower lockdown breach Human rights? Abolsutely yes.
Was it necessary, both in what was done and how swiftly it was done? Absolutely yes.
Should Andrews apologise? Yes for lots of things but not this, it was needed.
As far as people in public housing goes, there really should be some test or regular check that people still need it. Too many people stay in public housing who could afford private rental or even to purchase, to the detriment of those who need it and can't get in.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | Did the tower lockdown breach Human rights? Abolsutely yes.
Was it necessary, both in what was done and how swiftly it was done? Absolutely yes.
Should Andrews apologise? Yes for lots of things but not this, it was needed.
As far as people in public housing goes, there really should be some test or regular check that people still need it. Too many people stay in public housing who could afford private rental or even to purchase, to the detriment of those who need it and can't get in. |
Absolutely. It is hardly ever re-checked. In Sth Yarra / Prahran the Russian mafia as they’re dubbed is well known. I can’t afford to drive let alone own some of the cars. At the same time their are impoverished people living there but not all and not all by a stretch in some circumstances
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Virus cluster in NSW growing very quickly.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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A fairly grim piece on all this from Guy Rundle:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/12/17/covid-19-vaccine-capitalism-rundle/
| Quote: | The most important fact about COVID is that it functions as a rehearsal. We are treating the rehearsal as the event itself, but that doesn’t change its nature.
The third SARS virus in 20 years, it was the most successful formulation to date: a virus which spreads itself by turning human hosts into sneezing, hacking machines, sufficient to give a small number of them shredded respiratory systems and death. As global diseases go it’s a doddle — not even close to the category of typhus or diphtheria.
And as rehearsals go, we pretty much stumbled through it. Failure to recognise a categorical shift that was under way was compounded by the decentred nature of global privatised neoliberalism, privatised airports, hospitals etc, followed by the right’s nihilistic determination to project a political-culture war on to it.
A brutal triage was applied to the very old, the chronically ill, and high-contact essential and not-so-essential workers. The worst response was in the Anglo-American centre where the individualist impulse, embedded and engineered, created a chaos that effectively handed control to the virus up to the point of vaccine distribution. A lucky escape surely.
There’s no sign we have truly learnt from this first act rehearsal. Is there any sign of comprehensive and public plans being developed for the viral age’s next go? Something that has a 5% mortality rate? One that hits children? Or any sort of thing which would make the full suspension of normal life necessary? |
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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