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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Quote: | I'm not so sure if it's a case of Western governments being scared of ISIS. After all most sources such as the CIA and the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights estimate that ISIS military manpower consists of no more than 100,000 fighters at the most.
They don't possess anywhere near the manpower that major Western powers such as the US, England and France do and of course Russia and China possess huge military manpower as well as extensive and advanced weaponry in their disposal and they wouldn't be called Western countries by any means either, however enemies of ISIS.
Only one source coming from Kurdish forces suggests the figure is 200,000 people are fighting for ISIS which isn't verified and has been questioned and doubted by other sources as I named earlier. |
Then why not just Squash them like that?
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | Quote: | I'm not so sure if it's a case of Western governments being scared of ISIS. After all most sources such as the CIA and the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights estimate that ISIS military manpower consists of no more than 100,000 fighters at the most.
They don't possess anywhere near the manpower that major Western powers such as the US, England and France do and of course Russia and China possess huge military manpower as well as extensive and advanced weaponry in their disposal and they wouldn't be called Western countries by any means either, however enemies of ISIS.
Only one source coming from Kurdish forces suggests the figure is 200,000 people are fighting for ISIS which isn't verified and has been questioned and doubted by other sources as I named earlier. |
Then why not just Squash them like that? |
I suppose it's a fear of the repercussions that come with it plus the fact that many ISIS fighters are able to transition themselves into guerrilla warfare which makes it harder for enemies to track them properly and efficiently.
Plus bombing the shit out of them might sound appealing and I'm the first person who wants to see the group eliminated but it's not as simple as it's made out to be by many people as they possess a large area of both Iraq and Syria and they pretty much control the borders of these two countries now.
Sadly I think boots on the ground which is a last resort here might be the only way to completely eliminate them but of course the repercussions might be devastating and we don't want a repeat of what happened in 2003 in the very same country that created such conditions for groups like ISIS to thrive on in the first place. I think to really get to the heart of the issue sectarianism is a big thing that needs to be addressed by governments within Iraq and Syria.
Also while ISIS is first and foremost the biggest Sunni Jihadist group in Iraq and Syria they do have support from smaller Sunni militia groups in the area as well and these militia groups have been vital for ISIS' ability to seize cities like Raqqa and Mosul in the first place.
It's a very complex issue to be dealing with and politicians from the Arab and Western world have a lot to address and think about before going in all guns blazing. I hardly know what the solution is so I'm not going even bother trying to come up with one as complex as this.
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | | If you're talking about Kobane, a great deal of the rubble was apparently caused by US bombing. |
Is there no end to your irrational fear |
See Jezza's post above. Fear or irrationality have nothing to do with it; I was simply pointing out a reported fact. Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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So now u delete posts just because?
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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200,000 sounds like an insane number. London to a brick it's more like a tenth of that, plus various and assorted others conscripted into largely non-combatant roles such as cooking and carrying supplies. *
* None of which is to suggest that they aren't a very serious outfit. Most wars are fought by, at the pointy end, nowhere near as many troops as you'd think. **
** There are exceptions to this rule, of course. The Iran-Iraq wars are an example. They were fought in much the same style as Verdun or the Somme, right down to the poison gas thing. But you can't fight a war in that style, or even anything like that style, when your opposition has unquestioned air superiority or, back in the days before air power became a factor, exclusive use of some other overwhelming technology (typically artillery).
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| I think now the fight against ISIS should be whatever it takes, surely by now someone has come up with a vaporizer gun. |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Tannin wrote: | 200,000 sounds like an insane number. London to a brick it's more like a tenth of that, plus various and assorted others conscripted into largely non-combatant roles such as cooking and carrying supplies. *
* None of which is to suggest that they aren't a very serious outfit. Most wars are fought by, at the pointy end, nowhere near as many troops as you'd think. **
** There are exceptions to this rule, of course. The Iran-Iraq wars are an example. They were fought in much the same style as Verdun or the Somme, right down to the poison gas thing. But you can't fight a war in that style, or even anything like that style, when your opposition has unquestioned air superiority or, back in the days before air power became a factor, exclusive use of some other overwhelming technology (typically artillery). |
Agreed Tannin! 200,000 fighters is outrageously high and it's only come from one source in the form of a Kurdish leader! The CIA says 20,000 to 31,500 and the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights says it's 80,000 (50,000 in Syria and 30,000 in Iraq).
In reality no one knows the figure but only one estimate has been beyond 100,000 so I doubt it's any higher and as you say probably about a tenth of 200,000 fighters. I'd be interested to see a breakdown of how many of those are foreign fighters outside of Syria and Iraq.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 1061 wrote: | | I think now the fight against ISIS should be whatever it takes, surely by now someone has come up with a vaporizer gun. |
Stop making so much sense
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| think positive wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | I think now the fight against ISIS should be whatever it takes, surely by now someone has come up with a vaporizer gun. |
Stop making so much sense |
I need a drink! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 1061 wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | I think now the fight against ISIS should be whatever it takes, surely by now someone has come up with a vaporizer gun. |
Stop making so much sense |
I need a drink! |
I've had a couple for you xxxxx!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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I tell you if ISIS indeed have 100,000 fighters this is a significant amount for the very fact all of them would be willing front line fighters.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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TSince they seem determined to provoke everybody who is more powerful than they are, you have to presume they'll implode or be exterminated by the regional powers when they look to be a serious threat to the region. Sometimes patience is a policy. We should use that policy more, in general.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| swoop42 wrote: | | I tell you if ISIS indeed have 100,000 fighters this is a significant amount for the very fact all of them would be willing front line fighters. |
and Happy to take there Lives for it too
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Sometimes patience is a policy. We should use that policy more, in general. |
I think patience is all well and good but I guess it all has to do with how many innocent lives are lost because of these ISIS bastards. Even with patience, you need to draw the line in the sand somewhere.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Lazza wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Sometimes patience is a policy. We should use that policy more, in general. |
I think patience is all well and good but I guess it all has to do with how many innocent lives are lost because of these ISIS bastards. Even with patience, you need to draw the line in the sand somewhere. |
Agree, but only if you can actually defend that line (and pay the price of that defence) with the lives of your young men and women,. I'm not sure we can.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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