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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| joffa corfe wrote: | | For what it's worth todays article by Andrew Bolt 3/6/13 was disgraceful and proves we all have a long long way to go!! |
Just out of curiosity, which parts were disgraceful?
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Genesis 1:1 |
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WhyPhilWhy?
WhyPhilWhy?
Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Location: Location: Location:
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This helped me wrap my head around the issue:
Racism = prejudice + power
That's the most simple and succinct explanation I have found, and shows that while both sides of an argument may be prejudiced towards the other, the side with the power is the only one that can be 'racist'.
And in accepting that, I have to accept that yes, I am a recovering racist. |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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| David wrote: | | Stupied wrote: | | David wrote: | | Yeah, but this is all just a straw-person argument. I never said that racism is only perpetrated by whites against dark-skinned folk. Of course Aboriginal people can be racist. I strongly doubt, however, that racism against whites in this country has as much impact as racism against Aboriginal people and those of other ethnicities. I don't see how your experience contradicts that. |
Jesus Christ, you're so PC that you're calling a straw-man argument a straw-person argument.... Just wow...
Also you just displayed blatant double standards. If you're going to take a stand against racism, go for your life, but stand against all forms of racism. You can't say that one type of racism is not as bad as another, it just makes you a hypocrite. |
No it doesn't. How can you possibly say that all forms of racism are equal? It's like saying slapping someone in the face and king-hitting them are just as bad as each other because they're both forms of assault. And stating as much isn't in any way a justification for slapping people.
If you think being called a 'cracker' or some other racial slur directed at white people is generally anywhere near as harmful as the worst kinds of racial abuse, then you clearly don't accept that racism can be harmful at all. Which makes a lot of sense, given your argument.
Edit: well posted, King Malta. |
Bullshit. You can't just excuse some forms of racism just because you think that one type of persons feelings will be less hurt than others. You assume that I don't accept that racism can be harmful at all? It would be just as easy to take from my post that I think all forms of racism are harmful, regardless of the target, and there should be zero tolerance for it in any situation.
Sorry, but to me you just sound full of shit. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Pa Marmo wrote: | | joffa corfe wrote: | | For what it's worth todays article by Andrew Bolt 3/6/13 was disgraceful and proves we all have a long long way to go!! |
Just out of curiosity, which parts were disgraceful? |
BOLT head is disgraceful, period.  
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Stupied wrote: | | You can't just excuse some forms of racism just because you think that one type of persons feelings will be less hurt than others. |
| David wrote: | | How can you possibly say that all forms of racism are equal? It's like saying slapping someone in the face and king-hitting them are just as bad as each other because they're both forms of assault. And stating as much isn't in any way a justification for slapping people. |
Perhaps I'm wrong about you not accepting that racism can be harmful, but throughout this thread I've seen you and others criticise Goodes's actions and, implicitly or otherwise, suggest that he shouldn't have taken offence. That, to me, sounds like a person who's never had to deal with the worst forms of racism and can't quite see why it's such a big deal. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | Pa Marmo wrote: | | joffa corfe wrote: | | For what it's worth todays article by Andrew Bolt 3/6/13 was disgraceful and proves we all have a long long way to go!! |
Just out of curiosity, which parts were disgraceful? |
BOLT head is disgraceful, period. |
Not sure that explains it Steve but anywho
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Genesis 1:1 |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| King Malta wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | Lazza wrote: | | David wrote: | | Yeah, but this is all just a straw-person argument. I never said that racism is only perpetrated by whites against dark-skinned folk. Of course Aboriginal people can be racist. I strongly doubt, however, that racism against whites in this country has as much impact as racism against Aboriginal people and those of other ethnicities. I don't see how your experience contradicts that. |
The point I'm making is not about you mate but Goodes. I would have loved Goodes to clearly state univocally that ALL racism was bad. Admit that it happens from his own community as well. Anyone reading all the shit over the last week would only get the impression that racism against the indigenous folk was bad. That is utter bullshit.
And it is very hard for you or anyone else to gauge the effect of racism of anyone, whatever colour, nationality or culture they are from. Some of the very worst racism I have read about has been directed at Asians in America perpetrated by African Americans.
BTW, African Americans calling each other ni---r annoys me too.......I find that a case of blatant bloody double standards. |
TOO True Lazza mate, and when I first heard my youngest sons hip hop/Rap songs, sung by BLACK Americans, screaming out the dreadful N - word, which they used to despise whites saying in the 60s etc, I did a big double take and got the shock of me life. ! Calling each other mother-damn N-----, yer could have knocked me down with a feather. !!   |
It's been documented (and is public knowledge in America) that African Americans began calling each other that term years ago 'to take the power out of the word'. A strategy which I personally feel is quite admirable.
Apparently they felt that if they used to word to refer to each other they would take away the satisfaction that people got from using it to abuse them. It still doesn't change the fact that a white person directing the word in an abusive way towards them is a throwback to an era where they were treated as a sub-human form of property for white people.
I honestly don't see how that can upset you at all. |
I understand and see what you are saying, the logic of it, but it still seems pretty weird they can say the N word to each other a million times, but still get offended if a white dude says it to them, -even in jest ?? Seems strange to me mate, like as if they want six of one, and half a dozen of the other. To put it mildy, I am bemused and confused, but hey, one learns something new every day.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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^ The real lesson there is context. It's not about a bunch of phonetic sounds being linked together in a certain way, it's about cultural meaning and context.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Frohickey
Joined: 22 May 2013
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King Malta 
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | King Malta wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | Lazza wrote: | | David wrote: | | Yeah, but this is all just a straw-person argument. I never said that racism is only perpetrated by whites against dark-skinned folk. Of course Aboriginal people can be racist. I strongly doubt, however, that racism against whites in this country has as much impact as racism against Aboriginal people and those of other ethnicities. I don't see how your experience contradicts that. |
The point I'm making is not about you mate but Goodes. I would have loved Goodes to clearly state univocally that ALL racism was bad. Admit that it happens from his own community as well. Anyone reading all the shit over the last week would only get the impression that racism against the indigenous folk was bad. That is utter bullshit.
And it is very hard for you or anyone else to gauge the effect of racism of anyone, whatever colour, nationality or culture they are from. Some of the very worst racism I have read about has been directed at Asians in America perpetrated by African Americans.
BTW, African Americans calling each other ni---r annoys me too.......I find that a case of blatant bloody double standards. |
TOO True Lazza mate, and when I first heard my youngest sons hip hop/Rap songs, sung by BLACK Americans, screaming out the dreadful N - word, which they used to despise whites saying in the 60s etc, I did a big double take and got the shock of me life. ! Calling each other mother-damn N-----, yer could have knocked me down with a feather. !! |
It's been documented (and is public knowledge in America) that African Americans began calling each other that term years ago 'to take the power out of the word'. A strategy which I personally feel is quite admirable.
Apparently they felt that if they used to word to refer to each other they would take away the satisfaction that people got from using it to abuse them. It still doesn't change the fact that a white person directing the word in an abusive way towards them is a throwback to an era where they were treated as a sub-human form of property for white people.
I honestly don't see how that can upset you at all. |
I understand and see what you are saying, the logic of it, but it still seems pretty weird they can say the N word to each other a million times, but still get offended if a white dude says it to them, -even in jest ?? Seems strange to me mate, like as if they want six of one, and half a dozen of the other. To put it mildy, I am bemused and confused, but hey, one learns something new every day. |
And like I said in my last post, I would just hope that people are taking something from this, just learning a little bit about the effect certain terms can have on other people 
Like David said, it's about the context. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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What the hell did I just watch? And how did that ever get shown on TV?
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Frohickey
Joined: 22 May 2013
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| David wrote: |
What the hell did I just watch? And how did that ever get shown on TV? |
That must be something he and Sandy did off camera and the camera man has kept it 
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When I read about the evils of drinking I gave up reading |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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Context.
So bottom line Goodes overreacted hugely given the "context" in which the 13 yo used the word.
They are her words not his, her thoughts not his.. her CONTEXT!!
The End. |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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| David wrote: | | Stupied wrote: | | You can't just excuse some forms of racism just because you think that one type of persons feelings will be less hurt than others. |
| David wrote: | | How can you possibly say that all forms of racism are equal? It's like saying slapping someone in the face and king-hitting them are just as bad as each other because they're both forms of assault. And stating as much isn't in any way a justification for slapping people. |
Perhaps I'm wrong about you not accepting that racism can be harmful, but throughout this thread I've seen you and others criticise Goodes's actions and, implicitly or otherwise, suggest that he shouldn't have taken offence. That, to me, sounds like a person who's never had to deal with the worst forms of racism and can't quite see why it's such a big deal. Correct me if I'm wrong. |
At no point have I said that Goodes shouldn't have taken offence. I have questioned whether his reaction was appropriate given that the offender was a child. He had every right to be pissed on ground, but to label a 13 year old girl as the face of racism without even having talked to her and gauged whether she knew that the word ape was racist, was taking it a step too far in my opinion.
Don't assume I don't know why racism is a big deal. I had to deal with being bullied for the majority of my time in my school days, and racism in its base form is bullying. |
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Frohickey
Joined: 22 May 2013
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| Museman wrote: | Context.
So bottom line Goodes overreacted hugely given the "context" in which the 13 yo used the word.
They are her words not his, her thoughts not his.. her CONTEXT |
And that context was a hulking person, a big galoot, a big ape.. nothing racial at all in her mind..
But don't worry, Adam taught her how to take it racially
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When I read about the evils of drinking I gave up reading |
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