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sq3
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Location: Gold Coast/Tampa
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Josh is a natural and the CHF at the Pies for the next 5+ years.
He has been playing in the ruck for the last 3 years to fill in until Stretch was ready - Stretch showed in 2004 why he will be a big asset in 2005 and beyond.
Hall was hit with bad health during the first half of 2004 and will show in 2005 how he can be a bigger, meaner and younger version of Keating.
Josh has very rare below the knees and smothering skills for a person of his height.
He is a CHF and has very rare goal kicking skills and will be our version of Hird for a lot of years for the Pies - he will also captain the team ala Hird.
Watch out for him in 2005 - bigger and more time on the forward line means more goals for the Pies.
Imagine the talls in the 2005 Pies forwards - Josh at CHF, HF's of Taz and Magic/Leon/Bucks : C2 at FF with King and Pebbles in the pockets.
Very, very difficult to match up on. |
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Cakewalk
For a minute there I lost myself , I lost myself
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: Australia
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| sq3 wrote: | Josh is a natural and the CHF at the Pies for the next 5+ years.
He has been playing in the ruck for the last 3 years to fill in until Stretch was ready - Stretch showed in 2004 why he will be a big asset in 2005 and beyond.
Hall was hit with bad health during the first half of 2004 and will show in 2005 how he can be a bigger, meaner and younger version of Keating.
Josh has very rare below the knees and smothering skills for a person of his height.
He is a CHF and has very rare goal kicking skills and will be our version of Hird for a lot of years for the Pies - he will also captain the team ala Hird.
Watch out for him in 2005 - bigger and more time on the forward line means more goals for the Pies.
Imagine the talls in the 2005 Pies forwards - Josh at CHF, HF's of Taz and Magic/Leon/Bucks : C2 at FF with King and Pebbles in the pockets.
Very, very difficult to match up on. |
That all sounds very nice , but where is the logic behind that statement?
I've never seen Josh dominate Centre Half forward in the whole time he has been at the club and the fact that he has struggled physically in the ruck doesn't auger well for being a CHF.
What has he ever done to indicate he could captain a football side let alone be good at it ? There's always been the talk that he'll lead and take a game by the scruff of the neck one day , but it still hasn't happened.
As for the Hird comparison the only thing they have in common is their ability to both resemble rag-dolls on the football field at times.
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"Are you an angry man? Are you envious? Do you get envious? I have competition in me. I want no one else to succeed. I hate most people. At times, I look at people and I see nothing worth liking. " |
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magpies are 2 good 
jacki is hot
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: mill park
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| josh is better playing at chf |
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Johnson#26
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| Yobbo^LuKa wrote: | | I dont reckon Josh is in a much different boat to McGough. Richards and Cloke are going to be breathing down his neck next year and will end up trampling him. The pressure is on to perform and if he doesnt find a place in the line up soon to excell at it wouldnt be hard seeing him in another clubs colours would it? |
I would hate to see it happen but if Fraser was to have a poor year next year, would he come under real pressure to retain his spot on the list? And if we were to get rid of him, imagine how bad it would look for the recruiting staff?
Of course, that won't happen, and I'm sure he will prove to everyone how good he really is.
Cam, yes, he was very good in 2003, and one of the two players I was proud of on the day. Although he won hitouts, his influence was way less then Ketaing's. While he is an honest battler, he will never be a top class ruckman - more of a dangerous full forward/wingman.
Member, you rase some good points about little support and rucking to a top class midfield. We would have won that GF with Rocca. It goes to show how good Fraser can be and how big his heart is, but I seriously doubt if he will ever become a full time ruckman. We are very lucky to have Streach. |
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MarkT
Joined: 07 Aug 2001
Location: Melb
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If you can't take pack marks you can't play as a traditional CHF. Josh can't take a pack mark.
Cam for CHF. |
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MarkT
Joined: 07 Aug 2001
Location: Melb
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| Cam wrote: | | Fraser - 21 Hitouts |
If you can bring yourself to do watch a tape. I can't recall a worthwhile tap by Fraser. A lot of Keating’s taps were to advantage. Hardly down the throat of a midfielder all the time but tapped to where they had planned for them to go so the midfielders could attack the ball in some space. I don't really care about who gets credited with the tap. It's often so marginal that it isn't worth awarding anyway.
Josh battled all day in the 2003 GF but lost his position decisively. It was a decisive position to lose as it was in 2002 and as it was on the night GF. Winning the ruck would have seen us win the 2002 day and 2003 night GF's. Perhaps not the 2003 day GF but then again the whole game would have been played on different terms. I wish MM had respect for ruckmen. |
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The Phantom
Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Location: At the MCG
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If Fraser were seriously available for trade he would be very keenly courted. It would make the Ottens scramble look insignificant.
He would be one of the first players to pick himself each week. He's versatile & capable of lifting the side when really needed.
He may not be our best ruck, but he is a ruck who is great at going forward.
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Who kicked 5 goals in the 1990 Grand Final? |
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d9 tank
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Location: Victoria
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Everyone keeps saying his best work is done as a forward and he is great as a forward.
I hope your right, but when has he ever shown that?
He has kicked the majority of his career goals as a ruckman floating forward. When played as a forward he has struggled with the extra attention.
I'm sure things will work out for him, but at this stage I really struggle to see what position he will play in 2005 if he can't succeed as a forward. |
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MarkT
Joined: 07 Aug 2001
Location: Melb
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I agree he would be in demand and I think he will be a very good player for us over the next 10 years. He gets beaten pointless in the ruck week in week out though. Yes he beat Everitt last year. Jason Cloke beat Brown once too. I know who the better player is though. Josh is still young by ruckman and even tall forward standards. My main concern though is that we don’t use an unconventional talent in a conventional role.
Right now he isn’t a ruckman or a CHF. He’s a mobile agile floating tall. What he might be in 3 years is another matter. |
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Joel 
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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d9, when Fraser goes forward, he usually kicks goals.
I agree with pretty much everything that MarkT has said in this thread. Cam Cloke is better suited to CHF IMO, he has a big body, he knows how to use it, he has a big kick, and can take a strong grab.
Fraser can ruck at times (like he showed us against Everritt), but generally, he has had little success at a ruckman. Having said that, we all know that it takes longer for big men to develop, however, I'm afraid that Richards will take his place...and Fraser will be left in no mans land, unless he learns to play as a permanent forward. |
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3rd degree 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote
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Fraser is hardly going to be left in no man's land Joel the guy nearly won us the 02 Grand Final people seem to forget this guy is one our most talented players and is definitely a future captain. He also got 3 brownlow votes against jeff white who is rated highly by many around here.
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d9 tank
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Location: Victoria
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| When Joel? Give me a few examples of games where he has played as a permanant forward and kicked more thsn 1 or 2 goals. |
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Daks 
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne.
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| d9 tank wrote: | | When Joel? Give me a few examples of games where he has played as a permanant forward and kicked more thsn 1 or 2 goals. |
Round 18 2002 against Carlton when he kicked 5, playing manly as a forward with Stunning in the ruck, Round 14 2002 against Adelaide when he kicked 4, Round 11 2002 against Melbourne when he kicked 4.. there a plenty of times he's moved forward and kicked a bag. As you would have noticed, most of his bags were kicked in 2002 when he had another ruckman playing well enough to back him up and free him into the forward line. We now have Richards, so this should see Josh move forward more often and start to kick regular bags like back in 2002.
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Nelly the cow is a beautiful cow
She moos, and moos and chews on grass.
© Daks 2006 |
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stoliboy 
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Sydney, NSW
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I would like to see Fraser improve in his kicking in front of goal.
He kicked 17 goals and 17 behinds in 2004. Many of those behinds I would say were in a gettable range, something you would expect senior players of his calibre to get.
Until he does that he won't dominate as a forward.
But he is not the only one on out team who could improve in front of goals...
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http://sydneymagpies.magpies.net/ |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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3rd degree, I probably didn't phrase it right. But my concern is that if he can't make it as a ruck, and because we might be a bit top heavy down forward, then if doesn't assert himself as a player then there is a chance that he will be left out.
He is talented for sure, but he needs a position.
d9, I don't know what games he actually played as a forward, because I simply can't remember. But this year, he kicked 3 against the Dogs late in the season, and he kicked 2 goals on 4 other occasions.
In 2003, he had 3 bags of 3 goals, most of 2003 he spent in ruck though because McKee was on the outer after the rule change.
Now, go back to 2002, when McKee was rucking, he had 4 bags of 3 goals, 2 bags of 4 goals, and one 5 goal game. He also had three 2 goal games.
http://www.footywire.com/fw/web/ft_player_games?year=2001&pid=167 |
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