New refugee laws
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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The argument I'm reacting against is that they are coming here with the aim of leeching off society. I have absolutely no doubt that the vast majority want to work.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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Your prostate is completely safe David!!
What a lot of crap some of you sad old men go on with!
Must remind the 2 blood bank scientists at work who came by boat and worked cleaning bloody office blocks and toilets to pay for upgrading their qualifications to fulfil Australian requirements how selfish their parents were for wanting them to avoid being raped AGAIN and being able to go to school, get a job etc. etc. etc.
Maybe you should have a look at the people who sit idly (breeding aside) on the social welfare system as did their parents as did their grandparents and paid for with the rest of society's labour including people who have been granted asylum.
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| David wrote: | | The argument I'm reacting against is that they are coming here with the aim of leeching off society. I have absolutely no doubt that the vast majority want to work. |
Obviously correct. The claim that these people aim to leech off our miserable social welfare system and live here in dire poverty for the rest of their lives is even more absurd than the claim that all those boats "just happened" to suddenly break down and/or sink the instant they crossed into Australian waters. These are determined, relatively wealthy people who can afford the thousands of dollars needed to buy passage on a boat.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | The argument I'm reacting against is that they are coming here with the aim of leeching off society. I have absolutely no doubt that the vast majority want to work. |
Can we start by differentiating between boat people and refugees? Everything you said about refugees I agree with, but it doesn't apply to the boat people.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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^ The majority of boat people are refugees. Perhaps you don't consider them so, but under any legal definition of the word, they are. But I was referring to both refugees and 'economic migrants' here, i.e. all boat people.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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It's all in the mindset, if someone is prepared to rort the system to get here quicker they are prepared to rort the system when they get here!
Are they the "type" we want here, nationality aside. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Stui, you don't manage to get on a boat without working very hard to get there, and to find the large sums of money involved. I don't reckon too many boat people took a private jet to Jakarta and paid the smuggler with Daddy's credit card.
The sooner we stop the boat arrivals the better. (And we pretty much have stopped them now. The key factor was the "no advantage" ruling under Rudd Mark 2; Abbott has followed up on that very effectively and it is now just about a solved problem.)
The boat arrivals have stopped and won't start again. Now we can deal with the real problem - the uncontrolled flood of legal immigrants. This has always been the real issue; this has always been the thing that makes Australians unhappy.
Abbott and his filthy crew, helped by sleazy Labor Party complicity, have managed to derail the overwhelming public opposition to massive immigration by pretending that the problem has been the (tiny) number of boat arrivals. Sadly for Abbott (but happily for this nation) he has now been so successful at stopping the boat arrivals that the blame-the-boats gambit simply can't work anymore.
The problems caused by our huge immigration intake - sprawling cities, choked-up roads, widespread environmental destruction, massive strains on infrastructure budgets, loss of public space and quality of life, higher crime rates, lower living standards and all the rest of it - these won't go away. They willl keep on getting worse. Stopping the boats hasn't changed any of that in the slightest. It will take a few years for the lesson to sink in, but from now on, even Dumb Joe Sixpack will know that the problems caused by massive immigration are indeed caused by massive immigration - and not even Abbott's cronies will be able to pretend it's all the boat people's fault.
This is a game-changer.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| 1061 wrote: | It's all in the mindset, if someone is prepared to rort the system to get here quicker they are prepared to rort the system when they get here!
Are they the "type" we want here, nationality aside. |
A very fair question, 1061. Mind you, it's not dole bludging and welfare fraud we have to worry about here, it's things like sharp business practices and tax fraud and joining the Liberal Party.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | ^ The majority of boat people are refugees. Perhaps you don't consider them so, but under any legal definition of the word, they are. But I was referring to both refugees and 'economic migrants' here, i.e. all boat people. |
That may well be, but when I'm argiung here about the boat people I'm specifically talking about them, you seem to simply lump them all into the one argument which is not correct.
They may well both be refugees but i personally draw a massive distinction between the people who have the money and means to leave their home country, travel thousands of kilometres to Indonesia and pay a criminal to try to get them to Australia (which they've chosen as their destination despite obviously having the means to pretty much go anywhere) and the people in UN camps or stuck in famine or war torn areas with no means to go anywhere, praying for resettlement somewhere.
For mine, the people in the second group are clearly in the greatest need but those in the first group obviously consider themselves more important because they can afford to pay.
I don't believe personally that any of the refugees want to come here with no intent to work but there's no doubt that our welfare system is one of the pull factors that make Australia an attractive destination.
Overall legal migration as raised by Tannin is another matter altogether. This country might have plenty of land but most of it's useless for agriculture. The areas where most of the best soil is are coincidently the areas where most of the people live and which is being built over. Melbourne is spreading like a rash.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | Looks like now they're fleeing persecution in Burma and landing in Malaysia and Thailand. Much shorter journeys and they're not then paying again to come here. The boats might not have stopped, but they've stopped coming here and that's saved lives. Whatever stupid politics are being played is not important to me, but the lives saved by the 'tough love' approach are.
To me the courses of action should be to improve refugee processing and acceptance in SE Asia/Asia, take in a decent amount from long term camps (greatly increase humanitarian intake) and cut voluntary immigration by at a minimum the same amount (I'd prefer far more refugees and far less 'others'). |
Tough love? More like cowardly racism by way of magical thinking.
You don't know what the hell has happened to any of those people. Not the slightest clue. And how you think shifting the burden of a global problem to poor neighbouring countries is "tough" is farcical. You must have loved Bishop's Cambodian Solution!
But, to be fair, it's not just you; you can join Stui and Tannin in their new fundamentalist green religion that is convinced world food supplies will collapse if we concrete over any more cleared and degraded Australian paddocks.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | ^ The majority of boat people are refugees. Perhaps you don't consider them so, but under any legal definition of the word, they are. But I was referring to both refugees and 'economic migrants' here, i.e. all boat people. |
That may well be, but when I'm argiung here about the boat people I'm specifically talking about them, you seem to simply lump them all into the one argument which is not correct.
They may well both be refugees but i personally draw a massive distinction between the people who have the money and means to leave their home country, travel thousands of kilometres to Indonesia and pay a criminal to try to get them to Australia (which they've chosen as their destination despite obviously having the means to pretty much go anywhere) and the people in UN camps or stuck in famine or war torn areas with no means to go anywhere, praying for resettlement somewhere.
For mine, the people in the second group are clearly in the greatest need but those in the first group obviously consider themselves more important because they can afford to pay.
I don't believe personally that any of the refugees want to come here with no intent to work but there's no doubt that our welfare system is one of the pull factors that make Australia an attractive destination.
Overall legal migration as raised by Tannin is another matter altogether. This country might have plenty of land but most of it's useless for agriculture. The areas where most of the best soil is are coincidently the areas where most of the people live and which is being built over. Melbourne is spreading like a rash. |
Well said, go get a 747 full of real refugees from camps.
And yeah, build some towns out the back of Burke USA style!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | Looks like now they're fleeing persecution in Burma and landing in Malaysia and Thailand. Much shorter journeys and they're not then paying again to come here. The boats might not have stopped, but they've stopped coming here and that's saved lives. Whatever stupid politics are being played is not important to me, but the lives saved by the 'tough love' approach are.
To me the courses of action should be to improve refugee processing and acceptance in SE Asia/Asia, take in a decent amount from long term camps (greatly increase humanitarian intake) and cut voluntary immigration by at a minimum the same amount (I'd prefer far more refugees and far less 'others'). |
Tough love? More like cowardly racism by way of magical thinking.
You don't know what the hell has happened to any of those people. Not the slightest clue. And how you think shifting the burden of a global problem to poor neighbouring countries is "tough" is farcical. You must have loved Bishop's Cambodian Solution!
But, to be fair, it's not just you; you can join Stui and Tannin in their new fundamentalist green religion that is convinced world food supplies will collapse if we concrete over any more cleared and degraded Australian paddocks. |
Correct weight.
Tannin is also correct about the others who ought not be here such as the multitudes on student visa's. That gets up my nose & is a flagrant abuse & rort of the system
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | ^ The majority of boat people are refugees. Perhaps you don't consider them so, but under any legal definition of the word, they are. But I was referring to both refugees and 'economic migrants' here, i.e. all boat people. |
That may well be, but when I'm argiung here about the boat people I'm specifically talking about them, you seem to simply lump them all into the one argument which is not correct.
They may well both be refugees but i personally draw a massive distinction between the people who have the money and means to leave their home country, travel thousands of kilometres to Indonesia and pay a criminal to try to get them to Australia (which they've chosen as their destination despite obviously having the means to pretty much go anywhere) and the people in UN camps or stuck in famine or war torn areas with no means to go anywhere, praying for resettlement somewhere.
For mine, the people in the second group are clearly in the greatest need but those in the first group obviously consider themselves more important because they can afford to pay.
I don't believe personally that any of the refugees want to come here with no intent to work but there's no doubt that our welfare system is one of the pull factors that make Australia an attractive destination.
Overall legal migration as raised by Tannin is another matter altogether. This country might have plenty of land but most of it's useless for agriculture. The areas where most of the best soil is are coincidently the areas where most of the people live and which is being built over. Melbourne is spreading like a rash. |
Well said, go get a 747 full of real refugees from camps.
And yeah, build some towns out the back of Burke USA style! |
I think it's an exceptional idea to distinguish between the persecuted and dying who are keen to queue and the persecuted and dying who are less keen on exiting in an orderly fashion. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | ^ The majority of boat people are refugees. Perhaps you don't consider them so, but under any legal definition of the word, they are. But I was referring to both refugees and 'economic migrants' here, i.e. all boat people. |
That may well be, but when I'm argiung here about the boat people I'm specifically talking about them, you seem to simply lump them all into the one argument which is not correct.
They may well both be refugees but i personally draw a massive distinction between the people who have the money and means to leave their home country, travel thousands of kilometres to Indonesia and pay a criminal to try to get them to Australia (which they've chosen as their destination despite obviously having the means to pretty much go anywhere) and the people in UN camps or stuck in famine or war torn areas with no means to go anywhere, praying for resettlement somewhere.
For mine, the people in the second group are clearly in the greatest need but those in the first group obviously consider themselves more important because they can afford to pay.
I don't believe personally that any of the refugees want to come here with no intent to work but there's no doubt that our welfare system is one of the pull factors that make Australia an attractive destination.
Overall legal migration as raised by Tannin is another matter altogether. This country might have plenty of land but most of it's useless for agriculture. The areas where most of the best soil is are coincidently the areas where most of the people live and which is being built over. Melbourne is spreading like a rash. |
Well said, go get a 747 full of real refugees from camps.
And yeah, build some towns out the back of Burke USA style! |
I think it's an exceptional idea to distinguish between the persecuted and dying who are keen to queue and the persecuted and dying who are less keen on exiting in an orderly fashion. |
hahahahahahahaha! good point 
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I think I missed the joke.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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